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ESPN: 20 NFL coaches of all time

Farbod21

By Farbod21
in The Stadium

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Larry

Larry

Posted
Posted

As for Gibbs, it wasn't just 3 different starting QBs and RBs, it was, except for maybe the OL (there was certainly some change between 1982 & 1991), 3 different time periods several years apart. It wasn't like 3 in a row, or 3 in 5 years with essentially the same team but for QB and RB. It was 1982, 1987, and 1991. That's 5 and 4 year gaps. That's impressive.

I recall reading that there was only one player who was on all 3 of Gibbs' Super Bowl teams.  (And I seem to remember that that one player was a backup.) 

 

Between #1 and #3, he almost completely replaced his entire roster. 

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drowland

drowland

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Nope. Never happened.

I believe that Holmgren and Parcells are the only two to win one with one team and get there with another.

 

Vermeil got the Eagles to the SB and lost before winning one with the Rams.

 

Don Shula took the Colts to the SB and lost before winning in Miami.  

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DC9

DC9

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I recall reading that there was only one player who was on all 3 of Gibbs' Super Bowl teams.  (And I seem to remember that that one player was a backup.) 

 

Between #1 and #3, he almost completely replaced his entire roster. 

 

 

Don Warren and Monte Coleman immediately come to mind.

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DC9

DC9

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Vermeil got the Eagles to the SB and lost before winning one with the Rams.

 

Don Shula took the Colts to the SB and lost before winning in Miami.  

 

 

Good call.  Both were a little before my time, though :P

 

Obviously I'd love for Shanahan to be the first to win a Super Bowl with two different franchises.  Hopefully a couple over the next couple of years.

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MartinC

MartinC

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#9 is too low for Joe Gibbs. It's not stupid but its low.

3 Super Bowls with 3 different QBs (4 really as Schreoder split time with Williams during the regular season of the 87 year) none of whom were elite and the way he adjusted his offense to fit each QBs. No other coach has come close to doing that.

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elkabong82

elkabong82

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Gibbs at 9 is way too low. Ridiculous BSPN, and the comments section most are saying so as well.

 

I am guessing Noll, Lombardi, Walsh, Shula, Brown, Halas, Landry, and worst of all Belicheat will be the 8 listed ahead.

 

Gibbs is top 5, and I would only put Lombardi and Noll ahead of him and say Gibbs is 3rd all time due to innovation, 3 SB wins with 3 (or 4) different QBs AND RBs, and very, very few super stars. His '91 team is one of the greatest of all time, top 5 easily, and outside of Redskins fans few could probably name more than a handful of players from that squad. Gibbs made it to 4 Superbowls as HC, should have won all 4 (and with that he is easily top 3 by everyone's rankings), then came out of retirement and took over a crappy Skins team and had them in the playoffs as a legit contender in season 2, with Brunell as QB, then helped will the team to the playoffs in '07 after ST's death, with a 37 year old back-up QB. 

 

Competition is another important aspect that I feel does not merit enough consideration in coach rankings, as well as other rankings. Gibbs had to fight off the Giants in the 80s in his own division, and the 49ers in the 80s, as well as the Bears. 

 

Arguments can be made for Landry ahead of Gibbs, but praising Noll ahead of Gibbs means slighting Landry, who won 2 SBs and lost 3. Arguments can be made for Brown as well, though it is an earlier era where competition was strongly centered just at the top, but the coaching tree is also very impressive and the Browns have been an afterthought ever since. 

 

Walsh I will not rank ahead. Same number of SB wins with, arguably, far more to work with. Not as diverse of a winning resume as Gibbs. Shula I won't rank ahead either, though that may deserve some flak. He is the winningest, but in an oft weak AFC. Has the perfect season, but possibly easiest schedule ever, which also magnifies the first point. Also lacks the diversity in winning. With Colts lost championship game and Superbowl despite being heavy favorites both times, then went 2-2 in SBs with the Dolphins. Overall 2-4 in the big game, and when he had Marino, considered the goat QB by many, he only got the big game once, and lost. Shula is still a great coach, but has a lot of negatives making it difficult for me to put him over Gibbs.

 

Halas was essential to the sport of football, and a very good head coach and his teams almost always had winning records. Still 6 championships is good, but over such a long span it takes away a little. Still, he was a pioneer, but also an older era and the transition/comparison  between old and newer eras is tough. Still his accomplishments are great, great eye for talent too. Arguments can be made for placement above Gibbs, but I give Gibbs the edge there.

 

Belicheat cheated at one point, won his first SB with the Pats thanks to a controversial call in one game, a bad forward pass call vs. the Steelers, and facing a QB on a throwing team who had hurt his thumb. The weather is a big advantage, like GB has enjoyed. Tape scandal was big, and it is an unknown just how much of an edge knowing the other teams' call signals gave. The asterisk and no SB wins after, plus huge choke job to the Giants (18-1) despite setting records is a knock too. He has also been a classless coach with running up scores, going for it on 4th when up, and he has shown to not be a graceful loser either.

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ToaCommander

ToaCommander

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I guess they put Shanny at 19th because of Elway was at QB when Denver won those SBs, yet they will put Belichick at in top 8 (at least)when his SB were all won by one QB in a span of 4 years??? I can't believe the great Joe Gibbs is behind Belichick given Gibbs won with 3 different QBs.

 

Well thats ESPN for you. I thought Gibbs would be around 5 or 6 but given that its ESPN and their voting is as random and arbitrary as their experts IQs...

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Burgold

Burgold

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Well, to be fair Belichick is a defensive genius.  I mean look how good his defenses have been over the last three years.  I think they may have made the top fifty teams at least once!  Goobers and raisanettes people, that defense has been holding up Brady and the O for how many years?  I'm amazed they don't revolt!

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DogofWar1

DogofWar1

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Gibbs at 9 is a joke.

 

But that's 2 to get onto the green and a two-putt on a par-4 hole for ESPN.  There will be at least 3-4 guys who should be behind Gibbs.

 

Seriously, I don't think people understand just how difficult it is to win a SB with multiple quarterbacks.  Only 3 coaches in the Superbowl Era have pulled it off, and Gibbs is the only one with 3.  Almost every coach who's ever won multiple SBs has done it with the same core for his team, with the QB being at the center of that.  Gibbs had to replace not only the QB, but the entire core of the team between SBs.

 

Man, knowing ESPN, if Shanny won 2 SBs here, becoming the 4th coach to do it with 2 QBs and the 1st to do it with multiple teams they'd rate him 11th all time or something, saying something like "he wins, but only with really good QBs."  It's like, WOW COACHES TEND TO ONLY WIN SUPERBOWLS WITH FRANCHISE QUARTERBACKS!?!?!  NO WAY!?

 

And then they'd rate Belichick top 5.

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Larry

Larry

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Actually, Dog, you've touched on something that that writer who voted Gibbs #3 mentioned.

Not only did Gibbs do it with 3 different QBs, but none of them are in the HoF.

In fact, how many HoFers did he have on those three teams, combined? Two?

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KDawg

KDawg

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I don't know why so many allow themselves to get worked up over someone's personal preferences/rankings. It's a list. Ultimately, it's someone's opinion. We know how much Joe Jackson Gibbs has meant to our franchise, and football in general. Hell, there are some schools that call the "Counter Trey" play, "Redskin".

 

To be honest, there are probably some coaches who never got to be a head coach, or landed in a really bad situation who were actually very good coaches that could crack the top 20 on this list, and they will never receive the credit that they deserve. It's a good thing that Gibbs was recognized, even if we all know that he's better than #9 overall.

 

In the end, what it boils down to, is that Joe Gibbs was the greatest coach of all time in our hearts and minds. Anything beyond that is gravy.

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Darkstarr

Darkstarr

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I have no issues with 9. 

I do have a couple issues with elkabong .

1. Innovation?  Walsh, Landry and the father himself Brown innovated far more then gibbs ever dreamed of. Walsh/Brown are credited with the WCO which is still used to this day as a foundation for many O's. Landry  INVENTED the 4-3 defense! Pretty darn important considering it is still the foundation for some many great defenses. And Brown will just google him to be blown away by his finger prints on the game way to many to list.

 

2. The 91 team is not won of the greatest of all time. It is not better then the steelers75-79, late 80's 49's, cowboys of early 90's, bronco's of late 90's, Packer teams of the late 60's. All those teams won multiple sb's and were dynasty's. As for 1 year winners, they were not as good as 85 bears, ravens 2000?.

 

3. Nobody thought Gibbs 2 was a serious contender to win it all. Come on nice story but win it all really?

 

4. Should have won 4? Alot of coaches can claim should have won 4. I am sure Shula thinks he should have beaten the Jets in sb3. Bottom line is he got destroyed by the Raiders in the game. It was over by half time, in a game the skins were favored in. So losing to an inferior team (in theory) has to count against you.

 

5. shula was not in the weak afc as you portray. Half of his wins came in the 70's, when they played 14 games not 16, he played in a conference that  boosted arguably the greatest team ever steeler's of the 70's, great Raider teams, and oh by the way his dolphins. The afc dominated the 70's like the nfc dominated the mid 80's till late 90's. I like how Gibbs should have won 4, but shula lost his. Shula was favored but u knock him when he loses, but when Gibbs lost u do not knock him for that loss why? U glaze over Shula still having the only perfect season in the sb era. Shula went to 3 straight sb's and won back to back something Gibbs never did. u mention the 3 qb's all the time as hard, but u never bring up how hard it is win back to back and go to 3 straight. No points for shula for those? If a skin's team had gone undefeated everyone would proclaim it as the greatest. No big bonus points for that?

 

6. Landry lost to Noll's steelers twice in the sb. He does have 4 rings and imo helmed the greatest teams ever. But with that said i tend to agree with you Landry over Noll.

 

7. Walsh "had more to work with" because Walsh had a greater eye for talent considering his drafts and talent he drafted i would say so that is a plus not a minus against him.

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Burgold

Burgold

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I think you forget just how dominant that 91 team was.  That was a complete team.  Look at how many shutouts they had.  Look at how many blowouts they had.  Look at the playoff and superbowl dominance.  I would pit that team against any team and would bet at them to win.  They'd anhilate the 85 Bears because they were just about as defensively dominant and five times the offensive threat.  They were clearly better than the 49ers because the 49ers weren't good enough to get to the show.  It is easily one of the top 3 teams of all time and what's amazing is that they were that good without a superstar qb or running back.  They didn't have a terror on defense.  They were that good a team and that falls to coaching.

 

Here's what they did.  Three shut outs in their first five games including a 45-0 drubbing of a team that was good enough to make it to the NFC Championship that very year.

 

1 September 1, 1991 Detroit Lions W 45-0 Robert F. Kennedy Memorial Stadium 1–0 TNT 8:00pm 2 September 9, 1991 at Dallas Cowboys W 33-31 Texas Stadium 2–0 ABC 9:00pm 3 September 15, 1991 Phoenix Cardinals W 34-0 Robert F. Kennedy Memorial Stadium 3–0 CBS 1:00pm 4 September 22, 1991 at Cincinnati Bengals W 34-27 Riverfront Stadium 4–0 CBS 1:00pm 5 September 30, 1991 Philadelphia Eagles W 23-0 Robert F. Kennedy Memorial Stadium 5–0 ABC 9:00pm 6 October 6, 1991 at Chicago Bears W 20-7 Soldier Field 6–0 CBS 1:00pm 7 October 13, 1991 Cleveland Browns W 42-17 Robert F. Kennedy Memorial Stadium 7–0 NBC 1:00pm 8 Bye 9 October 27, 1991 at New York Giants W 17-13 Giants Stadium 8–0 ESPN 8:00pm 10 November 3, 1991 Houston Oilers W 16-13 Robert F. Kennedy Memorial Stadium 9–0 NBC 1:00pm 11 November 10, 1991 Atlanta Falcons W 56-17 Robert F. Kennedy Memorial Stadium 10–0 CBS 1:00pm 12 November 17, 1991 at Pittsburgh Steelers W 41-14 Three Rivers Stadium 11–0 CBS 1:00pm 13 November 24, 1991 Dallas Cowboys L 24-21 Robert F. Kennedy Memorial Stadium 11–1 CBS 1:00pm 14 December 1, 1991 at Los Angeles Rams W 27-6 Anaheim Stadium 12–1 CBS 4:00pm 15 December 8, 1991 at Phoenix Cardinals W 20-14 Sun Devil Stadium 13–1 CBS 4:00pm 16 December 15, 1991 New York Giants W 34-17 Robert F. Kennedy Memorial Stadium 14–1 CBS 4:00pm 17 December 22, 1991 at Philadelphia Eagles L 24-22 Veterans Stadium 14–2 CBS 4:00pm

 

NFC Divisional Playoffs Atlanta Falcons W 24-7 Robert F. Kennedy Memorial Stadium 15–2 CBS 12:30pm NFC Championship Detroit Lions W 41-10 Robert F. Kennedy Memorial Stadium 16–2 CBS 4:15pm Super Bowl XXVI Buffalo Bills W 37-24 Hubert H. Humphrey Metrodome 17–2 CBS 6:15pm
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Hitman21ST

Hitman21ST

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I recall reading that there was only one player who was on all 3 of Gibbs' Super Bowl teams.  (And I seem to remember that that one player was a backup.) 

 

Between #1 and #3, he almost completely replaced his entire roster. 

 

Come on Larry, you're better than that.

 

Art Monk and Russ Grimm at the very least were on both

In fact, how many HoFers did he have on those three teams, combined? Two?

 

Green, Grimm, Monk, Riggins

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