Voice_of_Reason Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 The worst offense the 'Skins had on defense in the last several years was the first play of the Bengals game, when the Bengals knew exactly the defense we would switch into when they went wildcat, and our coaches didn't know that whatshisnugget could actually throw the ball. Result was a long TD. The guy who (presumably) drew that play up for the Bengals was Jay Gruden. You might have noticed that same Jay Gruden now is HC of the 'Skins. I have never understood why Jay hold Jim in such high regard. I understand they coached together, but Jay really made Jim look pretty bad when they went head-to-head. That said, the defense the last 2 years has been devoid of talent for a variety of reasons, particularly in the secondary, but elsewhere as well. And having the Slowik boys as coaches didn't help matters. The talent that they have had they haven't developed. And they didn't have a lot of talent to begin with. (Though I will say that I think R. Morris did a pretty good job with Amerson last year.) I think this year there is more talent, at least on paper, and they have a little more depth. So, now Jim can show what he's got. I also think that the 2 LB coaches they added will really help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planter Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Planter, none of your replies refute anything I said. And if you don't know/remember starters for our team, that doesn't make anything I said irrelevant. We put a lot of our resources into defense, Haslett hasn't been able to do much with those resources. Zeeb, it's players that win games NOT coaches. How many Skins defensive players made the latest NFL's "top 100 players" list? The FO evaluates and selects players. This is where the Skins failed. I know our players. The sarcastic "whos" refer to mediocre players who are gone or soon-to-be gone. Further complicating things, last year's bad offense also made the defense's job much harder. Note that I have not endorsed Haz. His job is on the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo 3squire Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 I really want Haz gone. Bottom line.lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurf85 Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 I really want Haz gone. Bottom line.lol I think it's a huge mistake that he's still here. I hope he proves me wrong, but I highly doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted June 5, 2014 Author Share Posted June 5, 2014 Its the unknowing aspect of what is going on in Jay's mind regarding Haslett and his performance here. Its been noted that Mike had his influence in the defense [ for whatever reason ] and that, to some, has been the standing point of Haslett still being employed here, because it supposedly wasn't Jim's fault altogether. Well I have my own personal opinion of the guy but thats besides the point. So, 2014 is coming up, and the question was asked before; how much of a leash does the guy get? Will there be the defense of him that 1. 'well this is his first real season as DC without Mike's influence'. 2. now he has the ability to go after players that fit his scheme. 3. he needs time to rebuild the defense. Its been mentioned of his lackluster career especially at the DC job, but a coach, in any catagory, does just that; coach. coach. coach. They're supposed to find the best attributes of each player, find their weakest point and put the player in a position to win their battle against whoever they're lined up against. Gibbs [ first stint ] made a HOF career at doing just this, and if he needed more coaching he went and got them. He had more assistant coaches on his team than any other team, and it showed in the W/L columns. When I watch the best coverage guy on defense blitzing, I do wonder what is going on in Haslett's head; and in most every case the player is given a shove and taken out of the play, rendering him useless. I just cannot stomach another full year of ineptness, so if he doesn't have this defense playing at a much more competitive tempo, Jay should put a stop to it before it ruins another season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RG3Hunna Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Everyone wants Haslett fired including me at one point I mean heck check my sig. But complaining about it isn't going to change anything he's here with us until stated otherwise by Jay Gruden. I sort of also realize why Gruden kept Haslett, I mean think about it? Gruden is a first time coach to an already semi established roster he needed a holdover from the previous regime to keep the current players comfortable and to help him get acclimated with the roster. Since Shanny "the head dude in charge" was terminated we had to keep man #2 which is Jim Haslett an ex head coach who also is familiar with our roster. I have faith in this years roster I really feel we should win the NFCeast especially if RGIII plays like we know he can play which is at an ELITE level. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 Hunna, I could seethe theory in that comment, but I don't think Gruden is that unfamiliar with coaching aspects; its only my guess, maybe i'm wrong. But the one thing I would rather not see is the Skins winning 45-38, 41-40, 47-44, where the onus is on the offense. Its too much of a risk to the players' health to be in a continual track meet week in and week out. Eventually something bad will happen, and Haslett will shrug his shoulders and come up with a 'well we gotta work on a few things' and walk away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rskin72 Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 To me, Haz was kept more for the fact that he had a relationship already with Gruden.....he knew the roster .... and could provide advice for a rookie HC in Gruden..... There is nothing that I have seen in Haz's coaching past that would lead me to believe that the defense will improve by leaps and bounds this season. What I do expect is a more attacking type of D WRT blitzes.....hopefully some creative blitz packages like a LeBeau would use. Our O hopefully will stake us to leads which will make the opposition more predictable in their playcalling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 To me, Haz was kept more for the fact that he had a relationship already with Gruden.....he knew the roster .... and could provide advice for a rookie HC in Gruden..... There is nothing that I have seen in Haz's coaching past that would lead me to believe that the defense will improve by leaps and bounds this season. What I do expect is a more attacking type of D WRT blitzes.....hopefully some creative blitz packages like a LeBeau would use. Our O hopefully will stake us to leads which will make the opposition more predictable in their playcalling. I like your optimism, but in my mind, optimism is an ant, and pessimism is Mount Kilimanjaro; I can try to find light at the end of the tunnel, but it ends up being a damned train every single time, which is fitting, because his schemes are a trainwreck in slow motion. I'd prefer to not see Griffin Morris DJax and Garcon straining hammies in the 3 qtr of the first game; last year they started out trying to break the record for most futile defense ever, and putting the un-deserving pressure on the offense because Haslett's lack of creativity and stale bread schemes caught up last year big time, and any other DC having that dubious distinction would have been gone in a heartbeat. Honestly, I hope like hell Haslett CAN pull a rabbit outta his ass, defensively speaking, but us fans deserve alot more than what he's provided, and the offense does as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Honestly, I hope like hell Haslett CAN pull a rabbit outta his ass This is not imagery that I think anybody wants to think of. Now, Haslett pulling a rabbit out of his hat, I think we would all be comfortable with... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 This is not imagery that I think anybody wants to think of. Now, Haslett pulling a rabbit out of his hat, I think we would all be comfortable with... If we can have a top 12 defense, I don't care where the rabbit comes out of. I'd be willing to record it and watch it once a day for the entire season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 If we can have a top 12 scoring defense, I don't care where the rabbit comes out of. I'd be willing to record it and watch it once a day for the entire season. fixed it for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planter Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Want to know the real problem with the Skins defense? Watch the NFL's "Top 100 Players" program. The players are selected by players, not by wonks like you and me. Number of Skins' Offensive players: 3 Number of Skins' Defensive players: 0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Want to know the real problem with the Skins defense? Watch the NFL's "Top 100 Players" program. The players are selected by players, not by wonks like you and me. Number of Skins' Offensive players: 3 Number of Skins' Defensive players: 0 I don't think you can necessarily pin it all on the players vs coaches. It's a symbiotic relationship. Obviously the players have to do what they're supposed to do but if you have coaches that don't know how to use the guys they have, don't know how to scheme correctly, and don't know how to make adjustments correctly then all the talent in the world isn't going to make you a dominant defense. Offenses are too complex and adjust too fast for it to work like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted June 10, 2014 Author Share Posted June 10, 2014 I don't think you can necessarily pin it all on the players vs coaches. It's a symbiotic relationship. Obviously the players have to do what they're supposed to do but if you have coaches that don't know how to use the guys they have, don't know how to scheme correctly, and don't know how to make adjustments correctly then all the talent in the world isn't going to make you a dominant defense. Offenses are too complex and adjust too fast for it to work like that. +1. I've always said its the coach's job; to coach, teach, use their advantages and disadvantages to get the most production out of the players. Put them in a position to win or at least have a chance to win their individual battle. Strategy. I have never seen Haslett do this; the year in N.O. was light shining on a dog's ass syndrome. He's just not a strategist. Some have a hatred for Gregg Williams, but he got the best out of his players and put them in winnable situations, and I just do not believe the current defensive squad is as bad as some say, they just don't have a teacher who can reach them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planter Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 I don't think you can necessarily pin it all on the players vs coaches. It's a symbiotic relationship. Obviously the players have to do what they're supposed to do but if you have coaches that don't know how to use the guys they have, don't know how to scheme correctly, and don't know how to make adjustments correctly then all the talent in the world isn't going to make you a dominant defense. Offenses are too complex and adjust too fast for it to work like that. Mostly agree but while coaches play an important role; it's players that win games. It is a myth that good coaches can win with mediocre players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Mostly agree but while coaches play an important role; it's players that win games. It is a myth that good coaches can win with mediocre players. True, but bad coaching can ruin good players. See Barry Switzer bungling up the Cowboys. That team should have won the next 3 SBs, they were that good. The fact they won in spite of ludicrous coaching speaks volumes as to how stacked they were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofAlvinWalton Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 There are 3 reasons why I have slight optimism that the DEF will be much better next year (in order of importance...to me): #1. The Offense: The Offense will/should be much better next year. Less turnovers and (more importantly) less “3 and outs”. The DEF was on the field way to much (and too often) last year. Just sustaining more drives (even if they don’t end in points) will do wonders for this DEF. Plus, the Skins hardly ever had the lead…that should change this year. #2. Special Teams: Does this even need to be stated? Better ST play should help this DEF quite a bit. #3. Mike Shanahan and Co.: Shanny has a track record of bad defenses and apparently meddling with said defenses. Bob Slowik was apparently not well liked (or good at his job) and is gone. Does anybody think Haslett wanted Slowik on his staff? I wonder if the players knew/sensed that Haslett wasn’t even really in charge of the DEF? All 3 combined should make this DEF look like an NFL DEF…maybe even a top 15 DEF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 #3. Mike Shanahan and Co.: Shanny has a track record of bad defenses and apparently meddling with said defenses. Bob Slowik was apparently not well liked (or good at his job) and is gone. Does anybody think Haslett wanted Slowik on his staff? I wonder if the players knew/sensed that Haslett wasn’t even really in charge of the DEF? All 3 combined should make this DEF look like an NFL DEF…maybe even a top 15 DEF. What's interesting is that Shanahan was credited with giving Elway a defense and running game that he hadn't had before, which is why they won a couple of SBs. It's like after Elway retired he completely forgot how to put together a good defense. Maybe that was because he started taking on too much control, maybe it was ego, I have no idea. But it's darn ironic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Our team was such a mess it was hard to grade entire segments of the team, let alone a Haslett or individual players. When the offense can't score in first halves for the first half of the season, the defense is just going to get torched. And that is exactly what happened. Getting rid of Shanahan and ALL his henchmen was more important than getting rid of Haslett. Sure Haslett is not the key to a super bowl but he provides needed coaching experience to our staff which should help Gruden. All he needs to do is put good players in logical places to do their thing, and it starts with Rak unleashed, and some much needed upgrades to our defense Hopefully Haz takes tidbits of advice from Gruden on how to open games without getting torched on the first play during national broadcasts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Good points all around. And on that one call in particular the the SS blew the coverage. Gomes IIRC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter_R Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 This is not imagery that I think anybody wants to think of. Now, Haslett pulling a rabbit out of his hat, I think we would all be comfortable with...I don't care where he pulls it from. He better have one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Good points all around. And on that one call in particular the the SS blew the coverage. Gomes IIRC I don't doubt for a moment you are correct. I read it was a predictable defensive call, and so all blamed Haslett. But a great OC targets players that have limited starting experience like a Gumbs Gomes. Basic coaching, go after and test the oppositions weakest players. It seems OCs often get so wrapped up in themselves they blindly call their offense which may well play into the opposition strength. It seems like our team has done that in recent decades. Especially Gibbs 2.0. Enter Gruden, who has made the playoffs 3 straight years with a QB few here seemed to want at the time. Rounding back on topic, I think he is a good boss for Haslett and hope he offers constructive criticism and then lets Haslett sink or swing for good. I read that Kyle and Haslett didn't even talk about how to run / defend the read option coming into 2013 when everyone knew it was now game planned heavily for. And of course, the read option was a disaster, to non-existent. I would swear Haslett has defended the read option very well overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 Question: Does anyone think that we are going to have anything but a bottom 3rd defense this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planter Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 It doesn't look good now but in one of the more optimistic scenarios our D could dramatically improve: Baker ,Robinson , Amerson develop into quality starters. Hatcher brings inside pressure which makes Kerrigan and Rak harder to contain. Clark finds the Fountain of Youth. The offense is able to sustain and finish drives while commiting fewer turnovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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