Jim Haslett : Time For Him To Show Something ?

[darrelgreenie]

^^^Just a quick point RE: SB Ravens

According to Ray Lewis and Rod Woodson the SB Ravens ran 2 defenses: Cover 2 zone with a sprinkle of 2 man.

Many of the Dungy defenses were similarly simple.

[Mahons21]

As was chicago's d under lovie smith

[skins island connection]

If Snyder was still in control Haslett would be gone. The fact that Haslett is still here should cause everyone to rejoice. Period.

 

 Another opinion, looking inside out it makes sense. Nice dodging.

 

Or, there might be personnel and football executives studying schemes and player tape and coming to conclusions about Hasletts fate. Rather than a fanboy owner who gets his opinion from the same place fans do.

I'm not sure Haslett will be successful but I am pleased with the process to retain him

And for the record, coaching is so vastly over rated on this board it's not even funny. The best defenses in the nfl today and of the past 20 years were always the most vanilla. Players win at this level, not coaches. You guys are a bunch of sniffling whining girls

.

 

 If coaching is so vastly over-rated, why have them?

Yes, alot of the best defenses were not complex, but you need to elaborate on why so.

If you have the best players who play and listen on a top notch level, it makes any DC look better.

But as for the vast majority of other teams who do not have a great defense to rely on, their DCs are forced to use strategies and schemes to help alleviate and cover the weaknesses as much as possible.  When they do not or cannot do this, they end up having a bottom 5 defense, a.k.a. Haslett.

 

Go right ahead and favor Haslett all you want, but you don't have to be a fanboy owner or head cashier at Chuck-E-Cheese to see he can't get the job done.

[Voice_of_Reason]

Go right ahead and favor Haslett all you want, but you don't have to be a fanboy owner or head cashier at Chuck-E-Cheese to see he can't get the job done.

 

I think that's being a little harsh.  I'm on record saying I wish they had made a change.  But I can also see that there were a lot of factors outside of Haslett's control that led to the lack of production on the field.

 

It's clear that he did not get to choose all of the coaches on his staff, he was stuck with the Slowik guys, who were not his choices, they are tried and true Shanahan guys. 

 

Early on, Slowik was the secondary coach, and when he failed miserably at that, Shanahan moved him to LB coach.  That's just one obvious example of where Haslett was handicapped by his situation.

 

He also didn't have players.  The guys up front could not win 1-1 battles and get pressure. The secondary has been a mess since 2007.  

 

They went into last year thinking that they could get something from some rookies to start at safety.  That wasn't his fault.  

 

As I said, I wanted a change.  But at the same time, I can also appreciate that there were situations outside of his control.  

 

It's tough to call a defense when you know that you have to blitz to bring pressure, but you have to play somewhat soft behind it because your safeties lack skills, and your DBs are only average.  

 

Ideally, you can press a guy at the LOS when you blitz, to take away the quick throw, but if you don't trust the help over the top, and your CB gets beat, it's a quick 6.  

 

The one thing I completely hold Haslett responsible for is that at times I think the defense has seemed unprepared.  They didn't know something the offense was going to do. The eagles game at the beginning of the season was an example, and the first play from scrimmage of the Bengals game a couple years ago was another.  That's inexcusable. 

 

Overall, I think Haslett is an average coordinator.  Given better players, the defense will be better.  Given worse players, the defense will be worse.  

 

I'm hopeful that with a few new players, a few new good coaches, things will be better this year. And if they are not, Jay and Bruce are going to have to find another DC.  Maybe Rex will get fired after this season, and they can bring him in.

[RandyHolt]

One of Haslett's strengths seems to be, that we are tough to run against. It wasn't just Gruden saying it either. Whenever we faced that high ticket back, they had "off" days. Sure it may well have led teams to pass vs our porous secondary, but that is not the point of my post.

 

So many teams want to establish the run. Control the clock, keep the ball out of QB X's hands, grind out wins.  Probably many skins fan want this as a priority today. Many fans were pissed Morris didn't get 20 carries in a game until the season was toast.

 

It seems the first thing a DC has to do is stop the run, otherwise teams would never pass. I have a hunch he designed his schemes to stop the run, and speculate he did so successfully.

 

Our shiny new scheme ft. unleashed OLBs may hurt in the run game, but get after QBs more. I think we have room to give it a try, as long as our DBs can tackle this year. Speaking of which, my theory, if a coach has to teach a player how to tackle, the player should probably be in the arena league.

[Pedro]

Our front 5 are all good vs the run, still will be if a team runs heavy on us.  What we weren't good at was pass pressure primarily because of no inside pressure and a scheme that had our OLBs in partial run D all the time when pass rushing.

 

That's Haslett coaching in a nut shell.  If the players are good he looks OK but scheme is as likely to hinder as help. He's 'average' which isn't good enough for my Redskins but will have to do for one more season.

 

We've fixed the spine issue and IMO are pretty loaded on D now to the point even Haslett will look 'good'.

 

I want brilliant

[rskin72]

Well guess I am wrong and Haz maybe one of the best DC's out there.  Am thankful that we still have him.

 

Pardon me, now I have to go and buy my skirt and heels.....

[skins island connection]

I think that's being a little harsh.  I'm on record saying I wish they had made a change.  But I can also see that there were a lot of factors outside of Haslett's control that led to the lack of production on the field.

 

It's clear that he did not get to choose all of the coaches on his staff, he was stuck with the Slowik guys, who were not his choices, they are tried and true Shanahan guys. 

 

Early on, Slowik was the secondary coach, and when he failed miserably at that, Shanahan moved him to LB coach.  That's just one obvious example of where Haslett was handicapped by his situation.

 

He also didn't have players.  The guys up front could not win 1-1 battles and get pressure. The secondary has been a mess since 2007.  

 

They went into last year thinking that they could get something from some rookies to start at safety.  That wasn't his fault.  

 

As I said, I wanted a change.  But at the same time, I can also appreciate that there were situations outside of his control.  

 

It's tough to call a defense when you know that you have to blitz to bring pressure, but you have to play somewhat soft behind it because your safeties lack skills, and your DBs are only average.  

 

Ideally, you can press a guy at the LOS when you blitz, to take away the quick throw, but if you don't trust the help over the top, and your CB gets beat, it's a quick 6.  

 

The one thing I completely hold Haslett responsible for is that at times I think the defense has seemed unprepared.  They didn't know something the offense was going to do. The eagles game at the beginning of the season was an example, and the first play from scrimmage of the Bengals game a couple years ago was another.  That's inexcusable. 

 

Overall, I think Haslett is an average coordinator.  Given better players, the defense will be better.  Given worse players, the defense will be worse.  

 

I'm hopeful that with a few new players, a few new good coaches, things will be better this year. And if they are not, Jay and Bruce are going to have to find another DC.  Maybe Rex will get fired after this season, and they can bring him in.

 

 Well, in all fairness,  a "staff" member insulting someone isn't exactly proper either.

 But I am sure Zoony is a cool person, and I certainly didn't wake up on the right side of the bed this morning, so maybe an apology is in order.

 

 But, the single biggest glaring point of the entire discussion is this;  IF Jim Haslett was a good enough HC/DC/coach, why has he signed with so many teams over the last 8 years? Only with the Saints was he there for more than 3 years, and that was because he started out as an assistant coach, got moved up because someone else got fired, then he ended up being fired.

 

 ****, if the guy could do something with the defense i'd be here praising the guy, but its not the case, nor was it with the other teams. And i'd hate to see the same thing happen this year that happened last year or the years before, only to have some fans defending him because they believe its a lack of talent issue, then we're doing this very same thing the following year, and so on.

 

 There has to be a stopping point; when is it? What exactly would it take to prove he is not the guy for the job? Maybe a few years of having a bottom 5 defense?

Its not personal, its performance, and we've all seen many coaches get alot more out of their players and accomplish more than what Haslett has.  The Redskins cannot depend on the offense to win games, the defense has to do their part, but its not working out that way.

[RandyHolt]

What constitutes a successful season by Haslett; aka showing us something.

 

Do we go blindly by yards allowed, or points allowed; with statistical ranking greater that half the other teams. Or do we need to be top 10?

 

If we make the playoffs, did he do good?   What about turnovers, and points scored by the defense, seemingly always something important that I think he puts an emphasis on when designing his scheme.

 

He has already defied the odds and remains in place, but I am curious what is the measuring stick to say it was fine to keep him after all crow nom nom.

[RedskinsInFebruary]

 

There's about two maybe three DCs in this league who could actually make a big difference on a team.  In my opinion those DCs are LeBeau (who's heading to the HOF), Rex Ryan, and an argument could be made for Dom Capers, though if you judged him purely on team metric rankings(PPG) he doesn't fare that well either.

 

Everyone seems to think Wade Phillips would have made a huge difference.  Despite that his defense only allowed about three points less per game last year than the Redskins.  With far more talented players on defense, a special teams unit that was not historically bad, and an offense that turned the ball over less than the Redskins.

It's always odd to me so many people call for coach's heads, when there are always so few options for replacement out there who aren't huge question marks. This is why I was somewhat even against firing Shanahan. I'm liking Gruden more and more, but at first he looked like a bit of a deer in headlights. I think it was smart to retain Haslet, even if just to retain some consistency, so there will be less for a first time head coach to deal with all at once. I'm also glad Gruden is keeping our running game, because that is one thing Shanahan has always had success with.

[zoony]

Another opinion, looking inside out it makes sense. Nice dodging.

If coaching is so vastly over-rated, why have them?

It's like talking to a 5 year old

[skinny21]

It's like talking to a 5 year old

Ouch. On a related note Orakpo may be overrated (per ES)... do we cut him?

[skins island connection]

 Randy,

 The first game of 2013 was against the Eagles, at home, Monday Night Football.

 It had been broadcast for months about Kelly's 'new offense', and there was no resistance to it at all in the 1st half. None. Up and down the field at will, and racked up points like crazy.

 

 Where was Haslett's plan? Hiding up in a booth 'studying' their offense, but nothing to stop or even slow it down. Contrary to what others may think, the 2nd half they just coasted, their defense knew our gameplan and it didn't involve alot of time consuming drives.

 

 Pereparation was all Haslett, right? Yes, the players have to execute, but we were embarrassed by Kelly and the Eagles, and other teams saw the way and followed suit, and the media danced around us breaking records for the most futile defense. Maybe i carry a grudge, but this shouldn't have happened; not like that. He's been here more than long enough to make improvements but it seems to be going backwards.

 

So let me ask you; if the defense is ranked in the bottom 8 this upcoming year, does your opinion change, or would you want to see him back the following season?

[Voice_of_Reason]

 Randy,

 The first game of 2013 was against the Eagles, at home, Monday Night Football.

 It had been broadcast for months about Kelly's 'new offense', and there was no resistance to it at all in the 1st half. None. Up and down the field at will, and racked up points like crazy.

 

 Where was Haslett's plan? Hiding up in a booth 'studying' their offense, but nothing to stop or even slow it down. Contrary to what others may think, the 2nd half they just coasted, their defense knew our gameplan and it didn't involve alot of time consuming drives.

 

 Pereparation was all Haslett, right? Yes, the players have to execute, but we were embarrassed by Kelly and the Eagles, and other teams saw the way and followed suit, and the media danced around us breaking records for the most futile defense. Maybe i carry a grudge, but this shouldn't have happened; not like that. He's been here more than long enough to make improvements but it seems to be going backwards.

 

So let me ask you; if the defense is ranked in the bottom 8 this upcoming year, does your opinion change, or would you want to see him back the following season?

 

Somewhat counter-point: Rambo (rookie 6th round FS) was starting.  Amerson (Rookie second round) was playing in nickle.)  Merriweather isn't very good.  Saying Wilson was "not very good" would be kind.

 

London couldn't run anymore.  

 

The DL couldn't get any pressure at all on their own.

 

The original plan was to allow the front 4 (that's the DL + either Rak or Kerrigan) to try and pressure the ball, and then the rest (7) of the defense was there to clean things up.  

 

The problem with that is that when your FS can't take the correct angle, the SS wiffs tackles and plays out of control, the secondary can't cover OR tackle, it just doesn't matter what the hell you do.  

 

After the Eagles ran down the field a few times against soft coverage, they tried to blitz a bit, but the Eagles KNEW that was coming, because it's the only thing that Haslett could try.  That exposed the secondary even more.

 

Look, as I keep saying, I would have preferred a switch at coordinator.  I don't think Haslett is great, or even good.  I think he's probably average.

 

But just claiming that he's terrible and has no plan is like sticking your fingers in your ears and saying LALALALALALALALALALALALA to the fact that the talent on the field was REALLY bad, and it's possible that even Buddy Ryan might not have been able to make wine out of that water. He could probably have done better, but a good coach with bad players = people thinking the coach is bad. 

[RandyHolt]

 Randy,...

 

So let me ask you; if the defense is ranked in the bottom 8 this upcoming year, does your opinion change, or would you want to see him back the following season?

 

 

Oh don't get me wrong, I wanted Haslett gone but was smart enough to realize to channel my anger towards Mike last year since Mike retained him. If you see pro sounding Haslett posts its merely me tired of bashing him and trying to look at something more than "he sucks" to discuss for the next 8 months. 

 

About Philly, what was mind blowing was we were back to playing afraid exactly like in the first half of 2012.  The plan was to read and we missed a ton of tackles, the offense sucked, and were down 4 scores in no time flat. Never forget Osaka, the new guy simply with no tape on him. VOR is right; on paper our D was a bit thin. 

 

I still ask, who wanted our D changed during the bye week in 2012, and who wanted to go back to a read to start 2013. If you know all the bad moves were Haslett's, hook us up with a link. 

 

Since I asked first, what is success for Haslett this year, crow nom nom? Not one poster answered that I am aware of, its back to but he sucks!!!!1!.  

[CommanderDOOM]

Didn't Dallas beat us twice with 3rd or 4th and looongs?? Haslett, a former player must be a really cool guy to get away with what our

D has shown the last few years.

[RandyHolt]

What is our record versus Dallas in the 4 years before Haslett, and the 4 years with him?  It seems not too long ago we went like 0-12 against them with better coordinators. I actually thought our D had been decent against romoSux in recent years. 

 

That last loss, Lord knows where Riley thought DeMarco was going to go when he got juked for the GWTD. I was pissed we dropped 8 but I am always pissed with passive play calls. Every single DC we have had has made passive calls at critical times just like that one. Marvin Lewis Blache Lynn and Gregg Williams were especially passive yet all said when named that we were going to be an aggressive defense. All lies. 

[deepball1]

 Randy,

 The first game of 2013 was against the Eagles, at home, Monday Night Football.

 It had been broadcast for months about Kelly's 'new offense', and there was no resistance to it at all in the 1st half. None. Up and down the field at will, and racked up points like crazy.

 

 Where was Haslett's plan? Hiding up in a booth 'studying' their offense, but nothing to stop or even slow it down. Contrary to what others may think, the 2nd half they just coasted, their defense knew our gameplan and it didn't involve alot of time consuming drives.

 

 Pereparation was all Haslett, right? Yes, the players have to execute, but we were embarrassed by Kelly and the Eagles, and other teams saw the way and followed suit, and the media danced around us breaking records for the most futile defense. Maybe i carry a grudge, but this shouldn't have happened; not like that. He's been here more than long enough to make improvements but it seems to be going backwards.

 

So let me ask you; if the defense is ranked in the bottom 8 this upcoming year, does your opinion change, or would you want to see him back the following season?

well hard to argue with any points here, even if you were a Haslett family member. I agree Haslett screwed up as well as Haslett was responsible for those 10-12 yard cushions off receivers for the last 4 years...and that silly read and react slowly philosophy. However....and with my fingers crossed....I will say this:

 

Haslett has had a stroke of genius....BLAME SHANAHAN. It takes him off the hook for the last 4 years BUT...BUT....now he has to do something different in order to show us that it was Shanahan holding him back. Thus, this is why we are hearing about exotic blitz packages and a new and improved aggressive pass rush scheme. If Haz pulls this off then everyone will think that it was indeed Shanny who held Haz back. Brilliant move actually. And he has also fallen into the Lucky Winners Circle because Gruden was smart enough to bring in Brian Baker to assist with teaching pass rush moves and Olivedotti is back and that seems to also be a positive move and then Gruden drafted the Number One pass rush demon in College. So Haz hits the lottery there as well. and to top it all off Gruden and Allen finally put the safety spot to bed with Ryan Clark from Pittsburg. The same Ryan Clark who has been in Dick Lebeau's Steel Curtain defense and can now assist Haslett in designing safety and corner blitzes that were used in Pittsburg.

 

Haslet is one lucky guy this year and will end up getting credit for a lot he doesn't deserve. But...what the heck we win.

[deepball1]

after reading a whole lot of posts on this thread, and so many calling for Hasletts head, and one or two individuals who have said that Haslett is a duck and quacks like a duck and will never be a defensive coordinator, let me say this:  You are half right.

 

Haz has been a duck, probably still is a duck basically, but even ducks can be garnished and served up in fancy restaurants. I think Haslett has been forced to think outside his limited box for the FIRST time in his life. He has a lot of pieces to work with, lots of chefs bringing ingredients to the recipe. Former head coach in Raheem, Best LB pass rush specialist in Brian Baker, Ryan Clark bringing the Dick Labeau blitz packages, Kirk Olivedatti bringing his packages, and Gruden allowing all coaches and players to interact.

 

This is a far cry from the days when we had a safety coach and a cornerback coach and a linebacker coach and a defensive lineman coach and they all met in different rooms. Face it we have had stupid head coaches in the past. It's not so much that Haslett is changing but he is being forced to allow changes to go on around him. There is a concerted team effort to get better and Haz is just going along with the changes. I guess that's the best way to describe it, and Haslett is going to benefit. As I said in my ealier post, Haslett is going to get credit for some things he doesn't deserive but hey, we win in the end. and who knows...maybe he will actually have learned something from it and he could even think change is a good thing. He's a good guy and a better human being than Greg Williams so I am pulling for Haz to finally have big success here in D.C.

[Mahons21]

I think people are really overrating a lot of our pickups. Clark was not retained by the steelers for a reason. Hopefully we can still get a year or two out of him, but it's very possible he'll be like London last year. A player who knows where to be but his body cannot get him there.

Just keep in mind guys, this is the spring when everything sounds like we're on the road to another division championship. Hopefully many of these moves pan out, but it's very possible we field essentially the same defense as last year. A defense that is worse at every single position than the truly loaded teams like SEA and SF. Still don't have a true star unless rak steps up.

[skins island connection]

Sorry Randy, I didn't mean to give you the impression that I thought you were a Haslett supporter.

 

I get the circumstances, reasons, excuses, scapegoats, etc, and because no one knows exactly the degree of meddling or why Mike did, the gray area exists.

 

If this year turns out bad, I will literately spontaniously combust. I'm sure quite a few others will also, and the meltdown will begin. But i'm going to sit back, and wait. And wait.  I believe there is adequate talent on this team, contrary to others, its just the direction/leadership preventing improvement, but we'll see.

[Mahons21]

What teams that have less talent than Washington, have DCs that "get more out of their players" than Haslett is able to.  Washington was ranked 17th overall by weighted DVOA last year, which takes into account strength of opponents as well.

[darrelgreenie]

I think people are really overrating a lot of our pickups. Clark was not retained by the steelers for a reason. Hopefully we can still get a year or two out of him, but it's very possible he'll be like London last year. A player who knows wear to be but body cannot get him there.

Just keep in mind guys, this is the spring when everything sounds like we're on the road to another division championship. Hopefully many of these moves pan out, but it's very possible we field essentially the same defense as last year. A defense that is worse at every single position than the truly loaded teams like SEA and SF. Still don't have a true star unless rak steps up.

I agree our defense doesn't have anywhere near the blue chip talent of the really good defenses.

And there are still areas on defense of obvious concern but on the whole I think the defense has improved.

 

Ryan Clark is no doubt standing on the edge of the age cliff. But he's still an upgrade over last year's FS and his knowledge of this scheme and leadership will really help. And he bumps Meriweather to SS where he should be an upgrade over Reed.

 

MLB is a huge question mark. Fletch fell off the age cliff last year and played below average but his replacement is going to be green no matter who wins the job.

 

I had my concerns about Hatcher because of his age (and his scope doesn't help me feel better) but if dude is healthy he's a h U G E addition in terms of pressures from the DL (which imo was the greatest area of weakness next to tackling in the secondary). Hatcher should have a trickle down effect for everyone else Barry, Rak and Ryan. The nickle package should be formidable.

[deepball1]

I think people are really overrating a lot of our pickups. Clark was not retained by the steelers for a reason. Hopefully we can still get a year or two out of him, but it's very possible he'll be like London last year. A player who knows wear to be but body cannot get him there.

Just keep in mind guys, this is the spring when everything sounds like we're on the road to another division championship. Hopefully many of these moves pan out, but it's very possible we field essentially the same defense as last year. A defense that is worse at every single position than the truly loaded teams like SEA and SF. Still don't have a true star unless rak steps up.

well according to your logic...Action Jackson was not retained by the Eagles for a reason......Hatcher was not retained by the Cowboys for a reason...so we shouldn't expect anything out of them because they were let go. I guess Chicago should not expect anything out of Jared Allen since the Vikings let him go. I guess the Packers should not expect anything out of Julius Peppers.....or heck...NO team should expect anything out of a veteran that is let go.

 

Ya see how ridiculous that argument is? I think each individual brings something different to the table and there was no evidence the Clark was washed up last season. The Steelers had a chance to lock up a younger safety or resign Clark to a long term deal and that wasn't going to happen considering his age. But he is still pretty fast, he is quick, and he brings a wealth of experience to the Redskins secondary on the backend which is where it is needed.

 

Regarding SF and Seattle being loaded. Beg to differ. Seattle lost FIVE defensive players and 11 sacks total. The past does not equal the future. Seattle had starter quality backups last year and they are no longer there. They didn't really have any pass rush stars. Nobody had more than 8 sacks on that team. San Fran has lost their BEST pass rusher for the season. and the other Smith is 35 years old, Navarro Bowman is injured and may not start the season or even play until the halfway point, they lost Carlos Rogers...

 

your assesment of teams that are loaded are flawed. The past does not equal the future. You are making the same mistake that ESPN and all the experts make every year...just predict the same outcome as last season.......and yet...it never.EVER turns out that way.

[Mahons21]

I agree our defense doesn't have anywhere near the blue chip talent of the really good defenses.

And there are still areas on defense of obvious concern but on the whole I think the defense has improved.

 

Ryan Clark is no doubt standing on the edge of the age cliff. But he's still an upgrade over last year's FS and his knowledge of this scheme and leadership will really help. And he bumps Meriweather to SS where he should be an upgrade over Reed.

 

MLB is a huge question mark. Fletch fell off the age cliff last year and played below average but his replacement is going to be green no matter who wins the job.

 

I had my concerns about Hatcher because of his age (and his scope doesn't help me feel better) but if dude is healthy he's a h U G E addition in terms of pressures from the DL (which imo was the greatest area of weakness next to tackling in the secondary). Hatcher should have a trickle down effect for everyone else Barry, Rak and Ryan. The nickle package should be formidable.

 

 

I think it's very possible the defense has improved DG, I just think we're all seeing the bright side of everything in the spring.

 

Clark could be London of 2-3 years ago and give us a couple good years, or he could be the London of last year.  Until he puts the pads on we won't know.

 

Merriweather will probably be an upgrade over Reed at SS, but his play is wildly inconsistent.  What I love about him is how much he seems to enjoy contact, one of the few Redskins players in the secondary who was willing to tackle last year.

 

I agree Hatcher could be a big upgrade if he plays the way he did last year(in a contract year), but he could also go back to averaging about 3 sacks per year as he did for the other 7 years of his career.  Furthermore, I worry about his presence in run support.  It's very possible the Redskins got yet another one-dimensional defender.  Teams are going to bring out 3+ WR sets, and run inside the tackles all day against the Redskins 2-4-5 which will probably have a front 4 of Cofield/Hatcher/Kerrigan/Rak.  Now I do like what he'll bring in 3rd and long situations which were an issue for the Redskins last  year, but worry teams will have success with the draw plays in these situations next year.  And as you mentioned his health is a question.  

 

I'm sure Haslett will get all the blame, but I still see a defense that sorely lacks talent.  I would put them in the bottom 1/3 of the league in terms of talent.