Jim Haslett : Time For Him To Show Something ?

[skinny21]

I kind of agree there Mahon. What we need is is for certain players to step up, and others to play like they're expected to. In theory, we've improved at MLB, SS, FS, DE and corner (as well as adding another rush linebacker), as well as depth at most areas. Now we have to see how accurate the theory is...

[Voice_of_Reason]

Something to keep in mind: improved means better than before. Improved does not mean good.

The additions they've made are all probably upgrades over what they had. But what they had was pretty bad.

I think the defense will improve to maybe middle of the pack. Better LB coaching, better ST, hopefully less turnovers from the offense and a few better players all together should = average.

[Mahons21]

VOR,

 

I was referencing quotes like the following:

 

1st post on this page - "We've fixed the spine issue and IMO are pretty loaded on D now to the point even Haslett will look 'good'."

 

Another post - "He has a lot of pieces to work with, lots of chefs bringing ingredients to the recipe. Former head coach in Raheem, Best LB pass rush specialist in Brian Baker, Ryan Clark bringing the Dick Labeau blitz packages, Kirk Olivedatti bringing his packages, and Gruden allowing all coaches and players to interact"

 

another post - "I believe there is adequate talent on this team, contrary to others, its just the direction/leadership preventing improvement"

 

We're in the bottom third of the league in talent on defense.  It seems like fans expect our DC to be a HOF bound coach.  Yet the same fans have bare minimum expectations for our defensive players.

 

We put Bacarri Rambo on the field last year, he most likely won't be on a team this year or next, much like his predecessor madieu williams.

[RandyHolt]

I have a feeling Ryan Clark may serve us better as a coach than player. He should help Haslett and Morris a lot. We know it was an issue and even Gruden said it "issues on the back end". I think Clark is going to help there, one way or another. Book it.

 

Sure we may get a solid year out of him and improved FS play in the short term, but I am optimistic that he takes command our of feeble secondary, becomes our defacto captain, and helps us more long term by the knowledge and presence he brings than just one year of improved play at free.

 

I am thinking the greenhorns will learn more by watching him than any coach can express verbally. Young players take in what the vets do whether they like it or not; many people learn by seeing versus being told. Before this year, the headhunter Merriweather was their mentor. I think and hope that Clark's presence alone, being a respected vet and all, will give valuable lessons to Rambo Thomas, maybe even Merriweather and the corners.

 

The next time someone tries to go into the huge hole in the center of the field,  I'd love to see Clark crash down on that. Our front 7 should get in there sooner this year, but we all know not always.  I want to see Clark fill the gap - one of the bigger holes I saw in Hasletts previous D's.

[Mahons21]

I appreciate a vocal player as much as the next guy.  However London is that same type of player and his ability to communicate has not helped vault the Redskins defense over the top in the past.  I don't see why Clark would be any different.  Though we have developed at least one mid rd LB while he was here, and there's a possibility of Robinson will be serviceable too.

 

Clark's biggest impact will be his level of talent on the field compared to Rambo/Merriweather/Biggers.  This impact will only be seen if Clark still has decent range at the FS position.

[skins island connection]

What teams that have less talent than Washington, have DCs that "get more out of their players" than Haslett is able to.  Washington was ranked 17th overall by weighted DVOA last year, which takes into account strength of opponents as well.

 

 Well, IMO, Cleveland, Tennessee, and Arizona come to mind.

These teams may have a player or 2 who is considered very good, but we do as well. This year look for the Rams defense to make alot of noise, and you know why; they have a coach who can reach his players, strategize, etc.

 

 But how do these, or any players for that matter, go from being average or below, to being much improved or very good/ pro bowl caliber?  Coaching. They didn't have it when they were born, well maybe excluding D. Green, but these players had to be taught how to be good or better than good, right? They had to learn from somewhere how to use weakness to their advantage, manipulation.

 

Thats all i'm trying to say; i'm still not terribly thrilled with the 3-4 failure thus far, and IMO it is a continual hammering of a square block in a round hole, but they keep hammering away.

[skinny21]

Well, IMO, Cleveland, Tennessee, and Arizona come to mind.

These teams may have a player or 2 who is considered very good, but we do as well. This year look for the Rams defense to make alot of noise, and you know why; they have a coach who can reach his players, strategize, etc.

But how do these, or any players for that matter, go from being average or below, to being much improved or very good/ pro bowl caliber? Coaching. They didn't have it when they were born, well maybe excluding D. Green, but these players had to be taught how to be good or better than good, right? They had to learn from somewhere how to use weakness to their advantage, manipulation.

Thats all i'm trying to say; i'm still not terribly thrilled with the 3-4 failure thus far, and IMO it is a continual hammering of a square block in a round hole, but they keep hammering away.

My impression is that the DC does far less coaching/teaching than the position coaches... am I wrong in that impression?

My main beef with with Haslett is the lack of adjustments. Partially because I don't know how much I can blame him for (lack of) talent acquisition, his staff, lack of player development, playing guys at positions they aren't best suited to, etc.

Heck, I don't even know who to attribute the change in play/scheme during our playoff run in '12 - Shanny or Haslett.

All I do know is I like our starters, depth and coaching staff better now than I have in recent history... and I'm hoping this is an indication of positive things to come when the season rolls around.

[Voice_of_Reason]

VOR,

I was referencing quotes like the following:

1st post on this page - "We've fixed the spine issue and IMO are pretty loaded on D now to the point even Haslett will look 'good'."

Another post - "He has a lot of pieces to work with, lots of chefs bringing ingredients to the recipe. Former head coach in Raheem, Best LB pass rush specialist in Brian Baker, Ryan Clark bringing the Dick Labeau blitz packages, Kirk Olivedatti bringing his packages, and Gruden allowing all coaches and players to interact"

another post - "I believe there is adequate talent on this team, contrary to others, its just the direction/leadership preventing improvement"

We're in the bottom third of the league in talent on defense. It seems like fans expect our DC to be a HOF bound coach. Yet the same fans have bare minimum expectations for our defensive players.

We put Bacarri Rambo on the field last year, he most likely won't be on a team this year or next, much like his predecessor madieu williams.

I think I was kindof agreeing with you.

I think we've upgraded, but I think we've upgraded from dumpster fire to average.

I think out defensive personnel is somewhere around 16-20 in the league, top to bottom.

If that's the case, that's about where I expect our d to be ranked.

[skinny21]

The thing about Clark, at least IMO, is that even if he doesn't have the range to be a playmaker for us, I think his tackling ability (including better angles), experience, knowledge of the scheme(s) and leadership are all significant upgrades over what we've had.

[Mahons21]

The thing about Clark, at least IMO, is that even if he doesn't have the range to be a playmaker for us, I think his tackling ability (including better angles), experience, knowledge of the scheme(s) and leadership are all significant upgrades over what we've had.

 

I agree, but my point was that same argument could be made for London Fletcher last year.  Though I'd still have preferred to see K Robinson on the field.

[skinny21]

I agree, but my point was that same argument could be made for London Fletcher last year. Though I'd still have preferred to see K Robinson on the field.

True. But even if age catches up to him in a big way 1) he's probably still better than what we had last year and 2) now we have Jackson and a 2nd year Rambo backing him up. Granted, one of those guys may not even make the team, but it's better than Meriweather/Biggers/rookie Rambo. You're absolutely right though that Clark shouldn't be viewed as a savior.

[darrelgreenie]

 

What teams that have less talent than Washington, have DCs that "get more out of their players" than Haslett is able to

Well, IMO, Cleveland, Tennessee, and Arizona come to mind.

These teams may have a player or 2 who is considered very good, but we do as well. This year look for the Rams defense to make alot of noise, and you know why; they have a coach who can reach his players, strategize, etc.

I don't think Cleveland nor the others teams had less talent then our D.

I would give the Browns a nod on the front 7 and they had easily a better secondary w/ Joe Haden and TJ Ward.

Titan's I think we've got the better front 7 but not secondary, not even close.

And Zona? I give them the edge on front 7 and secondary.

 

FYI the Ram's defense is already well known and well respected. And it because they have Chris Long and Robert Quinn who are in the argument for best edge rushing tandem in the league and they just drafted the best 3-tech in college.

 

 

[Mahons21]

My impression is that the DC does far less coaching/teaching than the position coaches... am I wrong in that impression?

My main beef with with Haslett is the lack of adjustments. Partially because I don't know how much I can blame him for (lack of) talent acquisition, his staff, lack of player development, playing guys at positions they aren't best suited to, etc.

Heck, I don't even know who to attribute the change in play/scheme during our playoff run in '12 - Shanny or Haslett.

All I do know is I like our starters, depth and coaching staff better now than I have in recent history... and I'm hoping this is an indication of positive things to come when the season rolls around.

 

Your impression is correct.  A DC may choose to place an emphasis on something, but positional coaches are the ones teaching technique.  DCs work on designing/installing new plays in the offseason, and usually study film during the season to put together game plans.

 

My main beef with Haslett has been his play calling on 3rd/4th downs.  Too many times in 3/4th and short situations the Redskins stayed in cover-3 and gave up the short pass.  I would have liked to see some cover-2 with pressed corners in these situations.  Haven't been thrilled with 3/4th and long situations either.  Only rushing with three people far too often in these situations.  I'd personally like to see five people rushing, but four at a minimum.  Though I'm assuming he chooses to only rush three players because of the the Redskins tackling issues.

 

I personally attribute a lot of that playoff run to improved play on offense.  It gives you better field position, keeps the defense fresh, and helps make the opponents offense one dimensional when you take a large lead.  Make an offense one dimensional and you can play a lot less zone, and allow the pass rushers to free lance a little more.  

 

I think there's a good chance we'll be better on defense this year, but at the same time I won't be surprised if Hatcher goes back to being a 3-4 sack guy, Clark is too slow to really have a large impact at FS, K Robinson gets hurt, and we're essentially in the same spot.  What I'm the most excited about is the development of Amerson, he has the physical tools to be a shut down corner.  Here's to Hatcher improving on his performance from last year, Clark being like London of 3-4 years ago, and Robinson being the coverage LB we're all hearing so much about.

I agree 100% with everything DG said about those teams.  I think Arizona is actually one of the top defenses in terms of talent to be honest.

 

And as far as Rams are concerned, I would say it has more to do with them investing 4 first round draft picks in their front 4, having james laurinits at mike and a young standout corner in Jenkins who was a first round talent that dropped because of attitude issues.  That's how they improved on defense, they invested their resources in it, it was not simply "coaching", in my opinion.

[skinny21]

Good post M21.

Last year was rough... lack of interior rush, issues at corner (Wilson/Amerson mostly), poor safety play, poor ILB coverage (Fletcher mostly?), major tackling issues...

Offenses could beat whatever we threw at them. I have no doubt Haslett had issues, but I think he was doomed from the start.

Off the top of my head, we only had 6 starters who played pretty well to good (no one played great, IMO) - Orakpo, Kerrigan, Cofield, Riley, Hall and Doughty (and Doughty saw somewhat limited snaps) . The rest were below average to poor.

So I'm excited to see if Amerson, Clark, Robinson, Meriweather, Hatcher and Baker can play average or better. If so, (though I doubt it) I expect a pretty big turnaround defensively (middle of the pack or better).

The other key will be the trickle down effect. The safeties helping the corners, pass rush helping the secondary, etc. Even if Clark and Hatcher wind up as only moderate upgrades, they could have a larger affect on the D as a whole.

Bottom line, I believe Haslett has enough talent (now), to field a decent defense. He has a healthy blend (mostly) of decent to good talent and solid vets/potential. Even the depth is (mostly) good enough that injuries shouldn't be much of an excuse. Don't particularly want Haslett around and never have, but I'll be rooting for him regardless.

[darrelgreenie]

I think it's very possible the defense has improved DG, I just think we're all seeing the bright side of everything in the spring.

 

Clark could be London of 2-3 years ago and give us a couple good years, or he could be the London of last year.  Until he puts the pads on we won't know.

 

Merriweather will probably be an upgrade over Reed at SS, but his play is wildly inconsistent.  What I love about him is how much he seems to enjoy contact, one of the few Redskins players in the secondary who was willing to tackle last year.

 

I agree Hatcher could be a big upgrade if he plays the way he did last year(in a contract year), but he could also go back to averaging about 3 sacks per year as he did for the other 7 years of his career.  Furthermore, I worry about his presence in run support.  It's very possible the Redskins got yet another one-dimensional defender.  Teams are going to bring out 3+ WR sets, and run inside the tackles all day against the Redskins 2-4-5 which will probably have a front 4 of Cofield/Hatcher/Kerrigan/Rak.  Now I do like what he'll bring in 3rd and long situations which were an issue for the Redskins last  year, but worry teams will have success with the draw plays in these situations next year.  And as you mentioned his health is a question.  

 

I'm sure Haslett will get all the blame, but I still see a defense that sorely lacks talent.  I would put them in the bottom 1/3 of the league in terms of talent.

I agree the defense isn't stout even now, I would put them about slightly below average in talent. And I can't really speak on what view others have, you know how crazy extremeskins can be. But I don't think saying this has improved is an optimistic view at all really. And there are some intersting things this defense did deceptively well.(which would be a whole nother convo e.g. 3rd down conversion, run d etc)

But lets say the defense didn't add any new personnel at all; I still think the defense would be better this year because of  improvements on special teams and offense alone.

 

But this defense did upgrade some positions.

 

Ryan Clark at FS is an improvement over Meriweather/Biggers/Rambo. He also adds to the defense because of leadership and scheme specific knowledge. Having a FS that can make calls in the secondary helps everyone, including the coaches. I have a great quote/story from Lou Tepper about the impact a FS can have. (if I can find it)

Keep in mind I'm not saying Clark is gonna be Clark from 2-3 years ago. But the Ryan Clark from last year is still an upgrade over what we had.

 

I've never been a fan of Meriweather but he does bring speed, range and coverage that Doughty didn't have.

 

Even though Fletch had lost a step I don't think his replacement upgrade because of inexperience.

 

I think sacks are an overrated stat in general but especially for DL. So Hatcher's 'contract' year production in sacks is merely a product of position change to DE because Hatcher has been consistent with his ability to create pressures (hits, sacks, hurries, deflections). Hatcher played in Rob Ryan's 34 (which is similar to ours) and had the 3rd most pressures for a 34 DE (42) for frame of reference our best interior rusher was Cofield at 41.

Our DL isn't bad against the run so even if Hatcher is the one dimensional player (arguable) you view him to be the one dimesion he provides was sorely lacking on our defense.

 

At the end of the day the defense still doesn't have the talent of the top defenses but I think its fair to say it has improved.

[darrelgreenie]

Since I asked first, what is success for Haslett this year, crow nom nom? Not one poster answered that I am aware of, its back to but he sucks!!!!1!.

 

Bottom line, I believe Haslett has enough talent (now), to field a decent defense.

What will be the measuring stick for the defense this year?

[diehardskinpsoup]

 Well, IMO, Cleveland, Tennessee, and Arizona come to mind.

These teams may have a player or 2 who is considered very good, but we do as well. This year look for the Rams defense to make alot of noise, and you know why; they have a coach who can reach his players, strategize, etc.

 

 But how do these, or any players for that matter, go from being average or below, to being much improved or very good/ pro bowl caliber?  Coaching. They didn't have it when they were born, well maybe excluding D. Green, but these players had to be taught how to be good or better than good, right? They had to learn from somewhere how to use weakness to their advantage, manipulation.

 

Thats all i'm trying to say; i'm still not terribly thrilled with the 3-4 failure thus far, and IMO it is a continual hammering of a square block in a round hole, but they keep hammering away.

 

 

 

 

Agreed.  Completely.  Not a fan of the 3-4 (never have been) and never will be.  From all that I've heard, Haslett was a 4-3 guy in the past.   My opinion would get my head ripped off, but I honestly believe we could thrive in a 4-3.   Along with the arrival of Clark and Porter, having Craford back will boost our secondary.  I also believe we will get another solid season from D Hall before he begins to decline.   I have been predicting since the end of last season that David Amerson will have a huge season.   At the end of the day, we are all just makign predictions and excited (some of you guys really know your stuff and I am impressed BTW).   I say HAIL!!  Then I say HAIL again!!  Just excited as most of you are (I hope).  Can't wait.

 

 

HTTR!

[skinny21]

What will be the measuring stick for the defense this year?

Well, for myself, it's a combination of points, turnovers, sacks, and yardage, along with specific metrics like vs 3rd and short and vs 3rd and long.

In a more general sense though, I'm looking for a defense that can consistently give our offense a chance to win games... a defense that looks decent (or better) using the 'ol "eyeball test".

This may be a strange way to approach it, but here's a tiering of defensive play and my reaction:

1) A defense that isn't consistently embarrassing would be a step up (I'll take it).

2) A defense that is rarely embarrassing would be a pleasant change.

3) One that plays OK or better most of the time would be good in my book (considering where we're coming from).

4) One that plays mostly well and occasionally wins games would be huge, IMO.

5) One that plays very well most of the time would have me thinking we're on the cusp of greatness.

In terms of Haslett, we'd have to reach 3+ before I'd consider his return in '15... not that I have any say in it.

[deepball1]

seems like a lot of you don't recognize the Redskins starters as being talented until they prove it on the field. Can't blame you there although you didn't say that, many of you have just stated flat out that the Skins aren't talented enough to improve much and so your talent evaluation is the Redskins Defense is not a strength. That's what I am getting from most of these posts.

 

However, I am going to predict you are wrong. The Talent level when healthy is there now that pieces have been added. What has truly been missing is good coaching and perhaps Haslett is right and Mike Shanahan dabbled a bit too much. I only say that because the Skins defense has been inconsistent during the last 4 years and Shanahan's defenses in Denver were pretty inconsistent. That micro managing thing can have a negative affect.

 

As I said earlier, I fully expect Haslett to change and with the help of his staff, become more creative and more aggressive. and leave his stupid read and react philosophy behind. Waaaay behind.

[skinny21]

As I said earlier, I fully expect Haslett to change and with the help of his staff, become more creative and more aggressive. and leave his stupid read and react philosophy behind. Waaaay behind.

That would be cool.

[Mahons21]

DG - 

 

Tough for me to put actual benchmarks out there, when so much of the defense is still relatively unknown.  

 

How good is Clark still?  If he's a good as last year that's an improvement, but if he falls off the cliff as London did last year, then it's questionable.  Furthermore, I feel that everything the Redskins gained in leadership/communication in Clark, they lost with Fletcher, so I don't count on the Redskins improving too much in that area.  

 

Can Keenan Robinson stay healthy?  If he is healthy, will his great practices/training camps show on the field?  If so, I think his coverage skills could pay dividends for their defense, and really help expand the list of plays Haslett can call.  Since he'll have a a LB that can cover a receiving TE, and can make the deep drop on tampa-2.

 

Will Hatcher's health be an issue?  His interior pressure is a must for this defense to succeed.  If his health prohibits him from having the impact he's proven he can, the pass-rush could still be a large issue. Even if Amerson develops and Clark still plays at the level he did last year, we still don't have the secondary to make up for a poor pass rush.  

 

What I'd like to see from Haslett, since that seems to be what we're referring to when we discuss benchmarks:

-A scheme that utilizes 1-gapping more than 2-gapping.  Cofield is still as poorly suited to be a 2-gap NT now as he was when we acquired him.  1-gapping would allow him to use his greatest strength, which in my opinion is his speed off the snap.  In addition I feel that it would utilize Hatcher's ability to penetrate.

 

-More pressure brought in long 3rd/4th down situations (so long  as our defense shows the ability to tackle)

 

-More man-2 with pressed corners IF our front-4 can generate some pressure and defense shows ability to tackle in open space

 

-More stunting from d-line

 

-Some innovative d-line sub packages that successfully utilize our talent 

 

-Good play calls in game changing situations

 

What I do not want to see:

 

-Heavy blitzing with pressed corners, which some seem to think is a good idea

[darrelgreenie]

Well, for myself, it's a combination of points, turnovers, sacks, and yardage, along with specific metrics like vs 3rd and short and vs 3rd and long...

I'm gonna post some metrics that I look at to judge defenses please add the ones you like it could help guage where the defense is currently and where the defense needs to go to show improvement.

 

Good overall metric:

 

Points allowed:

Washington 30th

Top was Seattle 14.4

Top 10 was 21.1

Top 15 was 23.5

 

3rd down conversion %

This is gonna shock some people but Washington was 4th at 34%

Top was the Lions at 30%

Top 10 was Seattle at 35%

Top 15 was Colts at 38%

 

Turnovers:

Washington 16th w/ 26 turnovers

Top was Seattle w/ 39

Top 10 was 30

 

My number one metric for pass defense is opponent passer rating:

 

Washington 27th allowing 96.1 passer rating

The top defense was Seattle at holding(pun intended) opposing passers to a crazy 63.4

Top 10 defense was Carolina at 81.4 top 15 was the Eagles at 84

 

Metrics I look at for rushing: 

 

RB avg:

This might also surprise some people but Washington was 12th (tied) at 4.0 yds per rush

Top was the Jets at 3.4

 

Runs allowed over 20 yards:

Washington 18th w/11 runs allowed over 20+

Top defense Ravens w/5

[Mahons21]

That 3rd down conversion rate is baffling to me.  Never expected to see that.

[RedskinsInFebruary]

That 3rd down conversion rate is baffling to me.  Never expected to see that.

Me too.  Thought that was our achilles heel for a while now.  My impression was we would consistently stop teams Downs 1 and 2, then blow it on 3rd down, over and over, as they marched down the field.

[RandyHolt]

 

What will be the measuring stick for the defense this year?

 

It may be a high bar but think a reasonable goal is the playoffs. Keep it simple. Over the course of a full year, a playoff teams defense will be forced to hold its own in its lion share of games if not most.  

 

We can talk yds allowed or points allowed blindly but those are heavily influenced by our own offense / special teams, let alone the success of our defense when actually on the field.