Jim Haslett : Time For Him To Show Something ?

[Voice_of_Reason]

It looks like this was a 'payback' by Gruden to Haslett by keeping him, a ' ok, i'm giving you the benefit of a doubt' despite his past failures.

But yes, the defense must improve, and not by going from 31st to 29th; his history speaks for itself, and I hope Gruden/Allen take out the trash after this season, because I just do not see Haslett doing anything. He's had a number of years already and look at the product being put on the field.

Let's say the Skins defense improves from last in points to 16th, the Skins give up about 24 points per game, and the team wins 10 games.

Would that be enough to say Hazlett did a good job? Or would that not be enogh for you?

DG, I don't really use the advanced stats, not my thing. I want the defense to improve to middle of the pack in PPG. I completely understand there are outside factors, like ST and offensive turnovers, field position, etc. I get it.

But I also think that the defense is partially there to bail out mistakes made on offense.

So I look at PPG. and I really think if the skins could improve from 30 PPG to 24 PPG, which is average, they should win more games than they lose.

From a mom-stats related perspective, I really want to see them use their talent better. I want to see Orakpo and Kerrigan get a lot of opportunities to being pressure, because that's what they've best at.

[darrelgreenie]

@DG: Get out of the 20somethings. What I would like to see is say 15th ranked defense (points) but as long as it isn't 20th or lower I would consider that a win. The team could win games with a average Defense.

...So I look at PPG. and I really think if the skins could improve from 30 PPG to 24 PPG, which is average, they should win more games than they lose.

From a mom-stats related perspective, I really want to see them use their talent better. I want to see Orakpo and Kerrigan get a lot of opportunities to being pressure, because that's what they've best at.

24 PPG or ~16th

Cool that's something at least.

I'm surprised by how reticent this thread has been when it came to naming their benchmarks.

Oh, and their are stats to look at for opportunities to bring pressure.

Last year Rak rushed 375 times, Ryan 444 times.

For Haslett to keep his word those numbers need to rise.

There are some OLB that get as many as 586 rushes.

But its gonna be interesting to see how a team w/ 2 premium OLB rushers get them both high rush numbers. Its one of the reason the personnel structure of the defense is limiting the overall product.

I think having 2 premium OLB that get an average to below average number of rushes isn't as good as having 1 premium OLB that gets a high number of rushes then use the resources for the other premiem OLB at another position on defense SAF, DL or ILB but I digress.....

[skins island connection]

What do you want to see as a benchmark?

 

 Benchmark?

 Well, not watching teams march down the field at will on a steady basis would be a good start with me. As I said earlier, Haslett knew very well, and it was well discussed throughout every sports channel on the planet of how Chip Kelly runs an offense, their ideals, their system, their style, yet when the defense hit the field, they looked as if they had no idea of what was going on.

 

That was a total lack of preparation and understanding by Haslett. And spare me the 'oh, the defense tightened up in the 2nd half' talk, because the guy didn't want to burn bridges in his first game, it had absolutely nothing to do with defensive adjustments, it was Philly's offense chewing clock trying to end the game, just as GB did.

 

I'm not sure which game some are watching, but this 2013 defense, as broadcasted to the media, was bland, predictable, non-creative, and flat out sucked. Haslett, benchmarks, I really could give a rats ass, but I know for sure that there are other coaches out there who could have this defense piping hot and playing lights out; and I also know that Haslett is not the guy nor will he ever be.

 

How's that? lol

[darrelgreenie]

 Benchmark? [longwinded blowhard rhetorical rant having nothing to do with the question]....

Let me hold your hand.

 

A benchmark: something that serves as a standard by which others may be measured or judged

 

- a standardized problem or test that serves as a basis for evaluation or comparison (as of computer system performance)

 

You:  "the defense must improve, and not by going from 31st to 29th"

 

Improve to what? Put up or........

lol

[DC9]

Oh, and their are stats to look at for opportunities to bring pressure.

Last year Rak rushed 375 times, Ryan 444 times.

For Haslett to keep his word those numbers need to rise.

There are some OLB that get as many as 586 rushes.

But its gonna be interesting to see how a team w/ 2 premium OLB rushers get them both high rush numbers. Its one of the reason the personnel structure of the defense is limiting the overall product.

I think having 2 premium OLB that get an average to below average number of rushes isn't as good as having 1 premium OLB that gets a high number of rushes then use the resources for the other premiem OLB at another position on defense SAF, DL or ILB but I digress.....

 

I don't disagree with what you are saying OVERALL as I am for the best football players and not necissarily the best pass rushers...

 

But from a pass rushing POV... you want the attack to come from more than one spot.  I know interior push solves a lot of these issues, but we haven't been able to draft DL since I was just a boy. 

 

Plus the 98 fans would say he's getting triple teamed because he's the only one worth blocking.

[Airyx]

 

 Well, not watching teams march down the field at will on a steady basis would be a good start with me. As I said earlier, Haslett knew very well, and it was well discussed throughout every sports channel on the planet of how Chip Kelly runs an offense, their ideals, their system, their style, yet when the defense hit the field, they looked as if they had no idea of what was going on.

 

That was a total lack of preparation and understanding by Haslett. And spare me the 'oh, the defense tightened up in the 2nd half' talk, because the guy didn't want to burn bridges in his first game, it had absolutely nothing to do with defensive adjustments, it was Philly's offense chewing clock trying to end the game, just as GB did.

 

I'm not sure which game some are watching, but this 2013 defense, as broadcasted to the media, was bland, predictable, non-creative, and flat out sucked. Haslett, benchmarks, I really could give a rats ass, but I know for sure that there are other coaches out there who could have this defense piping hot and playing lights out; and I also know that Haslett is not the guy nor will he ever be.

 

How's that? lol

 

I agree that Haslett did a very poor job as the DC, and should have been replaced.

 

I agree that games like Philly and GB were great examples of a lack of preparation.

 

However, I disagree with your comment about it being bland, predictable, and non-creative. Haslett's problem is the reverse of that. History shows that the best defenses are simple, straight-up, hard-hitting, and fast.

 

Haslett has way too many wild coverage rotations, exposed blitzes, etc. He fails to put players into roles that leverages their specific talents, and at the same time has players take responsibilities that take them away from what they do best.

 

I was really hoping the 'skins next HC would be the OTHER coordinator from Cinci. He gets his players kicking tail.

[darrelgreenie]

I don't disagree with what you are saying OVERALL as I am for the best football players and not necissarily the best pass rushers...

 

But from a pass rushing POV... you want the attack to come from more than one spot.  I know interior push solves a lot of these issues, but we haven't been able to draft DL since I was just a boy. 

 

Plus the 98 fans would say he's getting triple teamed because he's the only one worth blocking.

I think you miss understand me a little. I'm all about have the best pass rushers its just that I don't think a team gets value from having 2 premium pass rushers its like a lesser version of the problem of paying/having  2 premium running backs. You're better off with 1 and uses the resources for the other one else where. Eslewhere could be a pass rushing DE.

I agree 100% you want the pass rush to come from more then one spot but having 2 premium OLB pass rushers in a 34 is rare luxury that imo should be reserved for when the major holes in the defense are plugged up.

Last year we had Rak and Ryan but very little interior push and the net pass rush was just decent.

[skinny21]

24 PPG or ~16th

Cool that's something at least.

I'm surprised by how reticent this thread has been when it came to naming their benchmarks.

Oh, and their are stats to look at for opportunities to bring pressure.

Last year Rak rushed 375 times, Ryan 444 times.

For Haslett to keep his word those numbers need to rise.

There are some OLB that get as many as 586 rushes.

But its gonna be interesting to see how a team w/ 2 premium OLB rushers get them both high rush numbers. Its one of the reason the personnel structure of the defense is limiting the overall product.

I think having 2 premium OLB that get an average to below average number of rushes isn't as good as having 1 premium OLB that gets a high number of rushes then use the resources for the other premiem OLB at another position on defense SAF, DL or ILB but I digress.....

Depending on how the DEs play (if Hatcher is healthy, if Baker/Jenkins steps up), I wonder if we see more 4-3 looks. Between that, occassionally rushing 5 and Kerrigan playing a little DE in the 3-4, I'd like to think they could get Kerrigan and Orakpo's rushes closer to the 450-500 mark. Granted, I feel like they did all of those things last year, but they also had major issues in coverage/interior pressure. Alleviate those problems (at least to some degree) and maybe Haslett will feel more comfortable doing the above things on a more regular basis?

[darrelgreenie]

Depending on how the DEs play (if Hatcher is healthy, if Baker/Jenkins steps up), I wonder if we see more 4-3 looks. Between that, occassionally rushing 5 and Kerrigan playing a little DE in the 3-4, I'd like to think they could get Kerrigan and Orakpo's rushes closer to the 450-500 mark. Granted, I feel like they did all of those things last year, but they also had major issues in coverage/interior pressure. Alleviate those problems (at least to some degree) and maybe Haslett will feel more comfortable doing the above things on a more regular basis?

Iirc Haslett used a 4 man line somewhere north of 65% of the time. According to Haslett the OLBs will have fewer contain responsibilities (by scheme) then last year. All things being equal that change alone will increase the number of rush attempts. OLB contain vs rush responsibilites are covered some more in the 'white board thread'.

[Voice_of_Reason]

Benchmark?

Well, not watching teams march down the field at will on a steady basis would be a good start with me. As I said earlier, Haslett knew very well, and it was well discussed throughout every sports channel on the planet of how Chip Kelly runs an offense, their ideals, their system, their style, yet when the defense hit the field, they looked as if they had no idea of what was going on.

That was a total lack of preparation and understanding by Haslett. And spare me the 'oh, the defense tightened up in the 2nd half' talk, because the guy didn't want to burn bridges in his first game, it had absolutely nothing to do with defensive adjustments, it was Philly's offense chewing clock trying to end the game, just as GB did.

I'm not sure which game some are watching, but this 2013 defense, as broadcasted to the media, was bland, predictable, non-creative, and flat out sucked. Haslett, benchmarks, I really could give a rats ass, but I know for sure that there are other coaches out there who could have this defense piping hot and playing lights out; and I also know that Haslett is not the guy nor will he ever be.

How's that? lol

Up at the top of the page I asked you a hypothetical:

If they improved to 16th in PPG, and won 10 games, would that be enough for you to say that they should keep Haslett on?

[Morneblade]

DG, there is a reason I have not been active in this thread for quite some time. Haslett's track record has been terrible as a DC, and yet people are either saying "with Shanahan gone and not meddling we can see what he can really do" or "He hasn't been as bad as he has been made out to be, it's a lack of talent". And to be honest, I don't have the time nor the energy to sit here and debate it. If you think he's average, fine. I don't see it, and his results have been terrible. But if that is what you think, I'm not going to waste my time trying to change your mind. I've seen coaches do more with less, and I don't think we have a roster that is completely devoid of talent. You have a different opinion and I'm not going to argue with you over it. If Haslett has a average year, which would be a huge improvement, awesome! If he performs as usual, we'll suck.

[darrelgreenie]

Morne-All I have to say to your previous post is Great! You, no offense, are one of the many posters so intent on arguing your point and grinding your axe against Haslett you don't even realize that it's not the current conversation.

Currently the convo has been about the statistical measures if the defense AND

What benchmarks do you expect/ need the defense to hit to constitute success or failure?

[SpacePenguin]

Morne-All I have to say to your previous post is Great! You, no offense, are one of the many posters so intent on arguing your point and grinding your axe against Haslett you don't even realize that it's not the current conversation.

Currently the convo has been about the statistical measures if the defense AND

What benchmarks do you expect/ need the defense to hit to constitute success or failure?

It's rather comedic how you seem to think you're entitled to set the agenda for the conversation, and if any post doesn't meet your criteria then it is invalid.

Have fun lol

[SWFLSkins]

Let me hold your hand.

 

A benchmark: something that serves as a standard by which others may be measured or judged

 

- a standardized problem or test that serves as a basis for evaluation or comparison (as of computer system performance)

 

You:  "the defense must improve, and not by going from 31st to 29th"

 

Improve to what? Put up or........

lol

 

The benchmark for me would be an eye test for the first four games, either the team is performing the fundamentals of defense, tackling, limited blown coverages- lining up in the called formations and not allowing a team to march at will. 

[SpacePenguin]

The benchmark for me would be an eye test for the first four games, either the team is performing the fundamentals of defense, tackling, limited blown coverages- lining up in the called formations and not allowing a team to march at will.

Input unacceptable! Opinions must be stated in terms of statistics for statbot to compute! *Beep boop blip*

Anyways, I'll play. If Haslett can field a top 10 defense in PPG, then I'm fine with him staying. Anything less and hopefully his ass is finally out the door. Average just isn't good enough considering how long he's been here.I know that he has a plethora of excuses for the unit's continued poor performance. There will always be excuses. I, for one, am tired of hearing them at this point.

[SWFLSkins]

Input unacceptable! Opinions must be stated in terms of statistics for statbot to compute! *Beep boop blip*

Anyways, I'll play. If Haslett can field a top 10 defense in PPG, then I'm fine with him staying. Anything less and hopefully his ass is finally out the door. Average just isn't good enough considering how long he's been here.I know that he has a plethora of excuses for the unit's continued poor performance. There will always be excuses. I, for one, am tired of hearing them at this point.

 

I knew that eye test would be a wrench in the gear box, lol. I posted much earlier in this thread that my leash would be extremely short, like four games. If he can't show improvement immediately I hope Gruden doesn't wait to pull the trigger. 

[bedlamVR]

I'd agree if it was a single season.

 

Would you say a consistent product over 4 or 5 seasons is a little more accurate, though?  I'd say absolutely. 

 

I would tend to agree here - 4 or 5 seasons would be more accurate but not by much. The bigger the sample pool you add the better the sats but also by comparing football teams one year to the next with different players assistant coaches and quirks in play calling and planning, different levels of understanding and experience etc etc also have an effect.

 

Don't get me wrong I think Has is not a fantastic D Co-ordinator who is constantly undone by circumstance - i think he is really limited makes poor adjustments and is seen as something of a doormat to strong personalities... but one thing you said...

 

"I will say I was pleasantly surprised to see Lou Spanos leave UCLA after three really good (and progressively MUCH better) seasons as a DC. He's now back in the NFL as a LBs coach... meaning he's ready to be a DC"

 

I think Spanos would be a good guy to keep an eye on. The scheme and the way 98 and 91 were being used in 2011 was very encouraging. And the drop off to Slowik palpable. And this lends credibility to the idea Shanahan meddled in the defense - when Spanos left, as the story goes, Morris and Has compiled a list of replacements only to be told the position has already been filled.... It happens and it is not - oh look Mike Shanahan was evil - but also suggests Hass did not have full control of his own destiny.

 

PPG is a good metric to look at because afterall the job of the defense is to stop the other team scoring (but offense and special teams can conspire to put the D in bad situations)  coupled with 3rd and 4th down %stop. But even then we were apparently good on 3rd downs last season - it did not feel like it - but it seemed to be any team going against us on 4th down was very sucessful.... to the point I would have seriously considered not activating my punter if I was playing us (and i am only half kidding) ....  

[DC9]

I think Spanos would be a good guy to keep an eye on. The scheme and the way 98 and 91 were being used in 2011 was very encouraging. And the drop off to Slowik palpable. And this lends credibility to the idea Shanahan meddled in the defense - when Spanos left, as the story goes, Morris and Has compiled a list of replacements only to be told the position has already been filled.... It happens and it is not - oh look Mike Shanahan was evil - but also suggests Hass did not have full control of his own destiny.

 

PPG is a good metric to look at because afterall the job of the defense is to stop the other team scoring (but offense and special teams can conspire to put the D in bad situations)  coupled with 3rd and 4th down %stop. But even then we were apparently good on 3rd downs last season - it did not feel like it - but it seemed to be any team going against us on 4th down was very sucessful.... to the point I would have seriously considered not activating my punter if I was playing us (and i am only half kidding) ....  

 

Agreed, and we all rolled our eyes when Slowick signed on.  Every unit he coached played poorly... from Atogwe, Landry, Rogers, and Hall to Orakpo, Fletcher, Riley, and Kerrigan.  You'd think those two personnel groups would be hard to **** up... but he did it and did it royally.  And to boot, as you mentioned, he was boys with Shanny and that's where a lot of the undercutting of Haz took place.

 

I'm not one for sexy stats on defense either and ultimately you're right... a defense is supposed to stop the offense from scoring.  However, what I look at is how the coordinator wants his defense to play and I measure the success/competence of that coordinator on how well he's managed to reach the goals he's set for his defense (as well as the obvious stuff like PPG).

 

When Haz got here he said he wanted to run a "trap style defense".  The idea of this is to show consistent looks and actually allow the offense to hit on certain areas of your defense to move the ball.  And then to change the coverage subtley out of the same look and cause a turn over.  Well... we really haven't seen that come to fruition over the last four years or so.  Spurts here and there, but other than the run in 2012, hardly at all have we been turn over machines. 

 

Now, that said, this is also a defense (the last two seasons) that is built to play with the lead and really needs a WR running five step routes (at least) to be successful.  So when we had a lead (in 2012) it was effective for the most part.  I'll go ahead and excuse the replacement ref games, because we should've won that Rams game.  But if we see anything close to that we're an 11 win team and we'll probably win a playoff game depending on seeding.

As for Spanos, he's actually a 3-4 guy.  Sure Haz "grew up" in Pittsburgh.  But when he was a HC his team ran a 4-3 and I think that tells us a lot about where his heart and head are. 

[skins island connection]

Let me hold your hand.

 

A benchmark: something that serves as a standard by which others may be measured or judged

 

- a standardized problem or test that serves as a basis for evaluation or comparison (as of computer system performance)

 

You:  "the defense must improve, and not by going from 31st to 29th"

 

Improve to what? Put up or........

lol

 

 hmmm... I don't recall the phrase you quoted me on; I can't remember ever using the word 'blowhard'.

 But, if you're gonna hold my hand, you better buy me a few drinks first !

 

 Ok, what if I use the word 'opportunistic'; you keep wanting to put a number on everything, and not all things can be accurately tagged with a number, because the 'opportunity' to make big plays here and there can greatly affect a standardized ranking system.

 

Now, improvement? Gee, where do I start.

1. Tackling; I will admit that the shoulder tackling has tapered off recently, but techniques, fundamentals, and judgement needs work. Staring into the backfield, poor judgement of a player's speed, and worst of all, a 6'5 275 lb TE shrugging off a corner who is trying to tackle him up high, as if he has a chance. Some of it is players not using their brain, and I hope they constantly harp about that in practice.

 

2. Temper; emotion is a big part of football, and players easily get caught up in it. But when a personal foul happens, its because of a player's poor judgement and his subsequential actions, which result in opponent's 1st downs.

We saw Haslett last year hiding up in the booth; he needs to be on the field, maintaining emotions and adjusting to what players are saying is happening on the field. Whatever strategy he tried last year by being up in the booth failed miserably.

 

3. Scheme; when a defense is playing at a high level, they can dictate and take away certain players and/or plays. When a defense is weak, scheme comes into play; covering up obvious weaknesses and forcing tha hand of an offense while predicting the next move of the offense.  Against Philly, the message was 'keep everything in front of you', but it didn't work out that way. Kelly quickly adjusted and left Haslett speechless, even though his offense was all but mailed to Haslett.

 

4. Opportunistic ; I can take watching a defense slowly giving in to an offense, at times maybe they were trying to bait the offense into a trap, but overall a battle back and forth. A few big plays here and there makes the world of difference, but the defense IMO appears to be playing read and react, and it ends up being one step behind the offense. Selling out on a play and getting toasted because of the playcalling, led by Haslett guessing wrong.

 

There's no emotion on the defense; they cannot rely on the offense to bail them out on a regular basis; they must step up and give the offense opportunities on short fields. Defenses inherit the temperament of their coaches; they become an extension on the field. If your DC is sitting up in a booth during games, it doesn't bode well when the defense is being run over.

And, if anything, as i've said before, look at his history; if you see a quality DC in his resume, then your eyes are better than mine.

[RandyHolt]

Keim chimes in on the D

 

Some excerpts that I found interesting....

 

 

Olivadotti also will help shape the game plan, notably in the red zone (a trouble spot). He was a highly respected coach here in the past and someone that Jim Haslett tried to re-hire several years ago (only to see the job go to Bob Slowik).

 

 

One school of thought I've heard this offseason from a few people smarter than me is that they should focus more on bend-but-don’t-break and stress red zone defense more than anything.

 

[darrelgreenie]

...you keep wanting to put a number on everything, and not all things can be accurately tagged with a number,..

It goes without saying that not everything can be accurately tagged with a number. And yes putting 'a number' to football unit is how various areas of offense, defense and special teams are compared (unless its about Luck then stats don't matter).

 

But alas this dance is getting old; and its my fault.

 

I saw this.....

But yes, the defense must improve, and not by going from 31st to 29th;

And thought it meant that you were ready to put some numbers to your rhetoric.

My mistake.

 

So basically just as long as you 'feel' like the defense is good/bad that is all the matters.

 

Your stance remains convient because it allows the ability to eschew metrics as you see fit and go by the 'ole eye ball test'. It also allows you to pick and choose metrics ala carte after or during the season.

 

-Cheers

[skins island connection]

It goes without saying that not everything can be accurately tagged with a number. And yes putting 'a number' to football unit is how various areas of offense, defense and special teams are compared (unless its about Luck then stats don't matter).

 

But alas this dance is getting old; and its my fault.

 

I saw this.....

 

 

And thought it meant that you were ready to put some numbers to your rhetoric.

My mistake.

 

So basically just as long as you 'feel' like the defense is good/bad that is all the matters.

 

Your stance remains convient because it allows the ability to eschew metrics as you see fit and go by the 'ole eye ball test'. It also allows you to pick and choose metrics ala carte after or during the season.

 

-Cheers

 

 

 ok, i'll play your silly game.

 If you want to attach numbers to a team, then Denver should have played Philadelphia, or Seattle should have played Cincinnati, being #2 Carolina is also in the NFC. There, happy?

 

 Believe what you want, but i'm not saying you are wrong, i'm only saying I am right.

 There are legitimate points on both sides and both sides hold water; its just MY side and what I believe and YOUR side and what you believe, and that damned numbers thing you keep bringing up isn't my cup of tea.

 

 Sorry about getting under your skin, that wasn't my intention. I know i am because of your next reply.

[darrelgreenie]

 

I know that some sites keep track of missed tackles for individuals but not for teams. PFF used to keep team missed tackles % but I haven't seen one after 2011.

I did find one based on team though I don't recall the one.

 

 

 This is the stat I was talking about, Kiem doesn't give its source which makes me believe its from Elias Sports Bureau......

 

What to expect: Redskins' defense

Tackle better. The Redskins allowed 756 yards after contact in the run game (23rd worst in the NFL) and 544 after contact by receivers (22nd worst). They were 26th in the NFL for their combined yards after contact allowed.

http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/8955/what-to-expect-redskins-defense?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

[Morneblade]

Morne-All I have to say to your previous post is Great! You, no offense, are one of the many posters so intent on arguing your point and grinding your axe against Haslett you don't even realize that it's not the current conversation.

Currently the convo has been about the statistical measures if the defense AND

What benchmarks do you expect/ need the defense to hit to constitute success or failure?

Actually you are wrong about that. I've been reading the current conversation and know what you guys are talking about. What I said is why I was not posting for some time and don't really plan to get into a debate about it, and that includes what "metrics" you or I will use to determine what is acceptable. For someone talking about posters that are intent on a point, you're as "intent" as they come. And I'm not going to bother with going back and forth with you about it. You have mine and yet it's still not enough, which is my point. Success would be 15 in points. I really don't care that much HOW we get there at this point. If we were dealing with a Defense that was not terrible I might be more picky with my metrics. But, as we are terrible and have been for a few years, I'll take that any way I can. There is your metric,

[darrelgreenie]

Actually you are wrong about that.

Wrong about what?

 

I've been reading the current conversation and know what you guys are talking about. What I said is why I was not posting for some time and don't really plan to get into a debate about it, and that includes what "metrics" you or I will use to determine what is acceptable.

So you are responding to post about defensive metrics to say that you don't want to debate it? Great.

 

But you also tried to launch into another strawman argument about Haslett that had NOTHING to do with my post or my views about Haslett or did you forget that part of your post?

DG, there is a reason I have not been active in this thread for quite some time. Haslett's track record has been terrible as a DC, and yet people are either saying "with Shanahan gone and not meddling we can see what he can really do" or "He hasn't been as bad as he has been made out to be, it's a lack of talent". And to be honest, I don't have the time nor the energy to sit here and debate it. If you think he's average, fine. I don't see it, and his results have been terrible. But if that is what you think, I'm not going to waste my time trying to change your mind.

 

 

...You have mine [statistical measure for the defense] and yet it's still not enough, which is my point.

You're wrong there friend. Or did you miss/forget this post....................

 

 

@DG: Get out of the 20somethings. What I would like to see is say 15th ranked defense (points) but as long as it isn't 20th or lower I would consider that a win. The team could win games with a average Defense.

...So I look at PPG. and I really think if the skins could improve from 30 PPG to 24 PPG, which is average, they should win more games than they lose.

From a mom-stats related perspective, I really want to see them use their talent better. I want to see Orakpo and Kerrigan get a lot of opportunities to being pressure, because that's what they've best at.

24 PPG or ~16th

Cool that's something at least.

I'm surprised by how reticent this thread has been when it came to naming their benchmarks.

 

Notice how I quoted your post? Then at the bottom acknowledge your ~16th expectation.

Heck, I even say "Cool"

 

I just wanted to set things straight to avoid confusion so we can move on.

Neither of us think very much of Haslett.

Me and some other people have long since moved on from Haslett to talking about the defense in general.

Which has lead to a discussion of defensive metrics. I like my thread starting privileges and didn't think it wise to start a thread about a tangent. *shrugs*