justice98 Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Particularly with more than one team in the league running it successfully, defensive coordinators couldn't come up with an effective way in season to stop the read option with all the film they watched. I don't think it's something that's going to be easily solved in an offseason. Offensive coordinators aren't just sitting on their hands waiting for defensive coordinators to adjust. When defenses adjust, offenses will adjust back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stadium-Armory Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 I'm not too concerned about scheme either way. I think I've learned that: a) The Shannahan's can (and will) go with whatever works even if it means using a 'college offense'. They're not prideful and are willing to adapt the scheme to the players they have and the defenses they face. This reminds me of JG. RG3 has skills that translate to any scheme. If defenses 'figure out' the zone read, we'll do something else and be successful at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKSkinsFan Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 I think it could be stopped IF that's all we did. Unfortunately for defenses, the read option is just part of our offensive scheme that will continue to grow as RG3 progresses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedlamVR Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 The reed option is something that is hard to plan against on defense because it is a reaction on offense to a very specific defensive front . It works by isolating the end or OLB on the side the zone is going too . To defensive coordinators of other teams - US message board fans know nothing ... Attacking the QB in the read option is going to absolutely work every time go for it - it cannot fail ... I mean I can see if you attack the QB with that DE/OLB then since the QB is keying off what that DE is doing you are giving up a free run of 7+ yards almost every play . It is a hard play to scheme against because whatever the defender guesses then it will be wrong ... The way I see teams ultimately defeat the zone read is with a very disciplined defense that can perfect almost a prevent defense - so the DE/OLB can react to the play when it happens and if the QB is hittable then bonus ... if course this is why the zone read is almost always run at the best pass rushing player to neutralize him ... It is a headache .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StepyagameuP Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 The same thing that got the Bucs a roughing the QB penalty in our endzone. Do you remember that play? Matter of fact they got two penalties. The DL got one when we were backed up on our goal line. Then Barron got one on the other side of the field. So this notion that the QB is far game on the option after the hand off is false. He'lm get the same protection as any QB passing the ball. You only get so many steps. I dont recall, but I take your word for it. Even so, I can see DE's claiming that they cant tell the difference if he has the ball or not and will stick a licking on him either way. Flag or not, there's a fat chance that they are coached up to hitstick the QB etiher way. Especially early on in the game. Hopefully not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rpredskins Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Obviously Mike Tomlin knows what he's talking about and there's more to what I saw on TV, but it does strike me as odd that he's saying you should attack the read option, yet I thought the Steelers had one of the more conservative (and most effective) approaches to RG3 in general. They had a LB or DE (can't remember which, may have been either one at certain times) sliding out like a qb spy and setting the edge so he couldn't get around, and then they had at least one guy inside, I assume in a zone. It sort of looked like they were not even trying to get up field on him, just keeping him in the pocket and behind the line of scrimmage. They were the #1 defense so maybe that style isn't viable with a typical team, but it looked like the best way to play against a mobile QB. Certainly worked better than "Send your most athletic guy balls to the wall and hope he reaches RG3" (see demarcus ware, JPP) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCClybun Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Obviously Mike Tomlin knows what he's talking about and there's more to what I saw on TV, but it does strike me as odd that he's saying you should attack the read option, yet I thought the Steelers had one of the more conservative (and most effective) approaches to RG3 in general. They had a LB or DE (can't remember which, may have been either one at certain times) sliding out like a qb spy and setting the edge so he couldn't get around, and then they had at least one guy inside, I assume in a zone. It sort of looked like they were not even trying to get up field on him, just keeping him in the pocket and behind the line of scrimmage.They were the #1 defense so maybe that style isn't viable with a typical team, but it looked like the best way to play against a mobile QB. Certainly worked better than "Send your most athletic guy balls to the wall and hope he reaches RG3" (see demarcus ware, JPP) And even with it, it's really hard to dismiss ten dropped passes. And all the passes that were dropped were wide open. If five of those are caught, it's a different football game. It probably opens things up more and causes them to get more aggressive. And I remenber an episode of NFL Turning Point explaining that the most success Alfred Morris had was running out of the pistol look. I don't think they so much stopped it as much as they sort of contained it, and got a lot of lucky breaks. Didn't help that our defense just couldn't stop them that day; the Steelers eventually just started running clock on us and didn't give our offense much of a chance to get into rhythm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
End2round2sanders Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 You could try starting there. But what's the chances we play another game where none of the WRs can catch. Three dropped TD passes that game. Zero pass rush. Big Ben stood there like a statue and didn't have to move. What's the chances none of our draft picks or present roster personnel don't pan out and we're playing w/ back up safeties. I didn't see the Panthers game so I can't speak on it. All I can say is, we haven't been good against Pittsburgh since '91. Maybe '97 we played em ok. Drops aside we weren't good collectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 A valuable piece that's being missed in the conversation in regards to stopping the zone read is the type of players that we have running it. Stopping the zone run itself isn't the most difficult thing in the world to do. Stopping it with a blazing fast quarterback and a running back who likes to smash people in the mouth with good vision is very difficult (like the Skins, Niners and Seahawks all have). Whoever is the force player needs to key the back aligned away from them. The offset formations throw that for a loop a bit, but in basic gun sets its easier to key. The idea is to lay hits on the ball carrier (moreso the QB) in order to make them hesitant to keep it. The problem is, with RG3 specifically, is that he's so fast there is no room for error with the force player's footwork. If they attack him but come inside just a tad too far, he's going to get outside of them. He's too explosive and fast. The strategy is sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Read Option is relatively new, and old, to the NFL, as variances have been run for decades. The trick in keeping R.O. a viable option is a healthy and mobile QB; but moreso, creating different packages and fakes off R.O. to keep defenses guessing. The teams which continue to run the same old formations without modifications will find themselves losing more than winning. I'm waiting for a combination of Read Option and Swinging Gate; Swinging Option! Laugh now, but it coming... SIC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gortiz Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 You are right, that was not the read option, it was a straight college option gameplan they used because Trent got hurt. I know that the RO did not mature until later in the season, but I have a question ... the RO is pretty specialized, is it hard to have not only the personnel, but also the depth on the bench to make it work? I guess, what I'm saying is it susceptible to going to hell if you lose one or just two players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 In a word? No attacking the QB doesn't stop the read option. (a) attacking the QB (if the attack defender is even good enough) only prevents the QB from running outside it doesn't limit the QB dive nor does it limit the RB or any 3rd option the offense chooses to have. Ultimately read option plays don't really want the QB running anyway. They just want the numbers advantage provided by forcing the defense to account for the QB. 'Attacking' the QB ensures the offense will have said numbers advantage. Another factor to consider is whether or not the attack defender will even get a hit on the QB if the QB makes it clear they don't have the ball. ( the offense can assign a WHAM, pull or BOB and actually block the attack defender this completely removes the effectiveness of the attack defender because now they're on their heels worried if they're gonna get hit. Then after you block the edge you don't have to block them anymore. You just run the blocker at them (as if to block) but have them move to block a second level defender If a defense wants to 'stop' the read option they have to reduce the numbers advantage ie bring another defender in the box, hopefully gain DL penetration AND varry their defensive assignments eg scrape-exchange my 2 cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 It all depends on how you define "attacking" the QB. To me, it's not an all out attack. It's positioning yourself to lay a hit on him if he decides to keep. You want someone to hit the QB each and every time he keeps the ball, but it's not an all-out blitzkreig for him. It's a fundamentally sound approach. And you can't commit more defenders to the box without opening up the zone read pass option. So it's a balancing act. One way to stop a basic zone read is to do a "scrape" exchange where the end and the LB exchange responsibilities. But that doesn't work with the more technical versions of the Zone Read. With a more dangerous QB, teams will utilize a style of defense where the end will sit and take the backside OLB take away the cut back, essentially forcing the play into an inside zone play. However, again, the issue is that an end can't just sit versus RG3. The end would have to put himself in proximity to the QB without over attacking. Teams struggled with that because the reps necessary to do that are incredible. And even with all the proper footwork, Griff can still break one with his speed and explosion. Either that or get two DEnds like Jadaveon Clowney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#BgMase76# Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 I dont recall, but I take your word for it. Even so, I can see DE's claiming that they cant tell the difference if he has the ball or not and will stick a licking on him either way. Flag or not, there's a fat chance that they are coached up to hitstick the QB etiher way. Especially early on in the game. Hopefully not... I get what your saying but that was also at the point where RGIII started throwing up his hands and back peddling after the hand off. I don't think we've yet to see a true option pitch off the edge. Hopefully we won't either. RGIII also slide flat a few times after the read to avoid getting hit. (love the hit stick reference) ---------- Post added May-2nd-2013 at 11:43 AM ---------- All I can say is, we haven't been good against Pittsburgh since '91. Maybe '97 we played em ok. Drops aside we weren't good collectively. Yeah, remember that was also when we fell off the cliff under Zorn. We were riding high. They smashed us and the smoke and mirrors disappeared. I just don't see that scenario playing out again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
End2round2sanders Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 I get what your saying but that was also at the point where RGIII started throwing up his hands and back peddling after the hand off. I don't think we've yet to see a true option pitch off the edge. Hopefully we won't either. RGIII also slide flat a few times after the read to avoid getting hit. (love the hit stick reference)---------- Post added May-2nd-2013 at 11:43 AM ---------- And they did it with backup Leftwich too. You know what I'm done I can't take reliving the Zorn era again. Yeah, remember that was also when we fell off the cliff under Zorn. We were riding high. They smashed us and the smoke and mirrors disappeared. I just don't see that scenario playing out again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chants Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 This is a best thread I've read this year. OP, like I said before, your analysis was great. But at this point I should also add that nearly all of the comments to this threat have been excellent. Folks, if you want to boost your Football IQ, reading this thread is a good place to start. Read it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 It's not an easy offense to stop. College football over the last decade proves that. The question is: Can any QB survive 16 games of it? I'm not worried about defenses suddenly stopping the offense. I'm worried about RGIII's health in Year 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 I know that the RO did not mature until later in the season, but I have a question ... the RO is pretty specialized, is it hard to have not only the personnel, but also the depth on the bench to make it work? I guess, what I'm saying is it susceptible to going to hell if you lose one or just two players. The read option is not very specialized and does not require special personnel, in fact, the basic read option concept was developed as a way inferior football teams could dominate superior ones. Now, if you want to put more reads and options into it and/or run it at the pro-level and/or take advantage of personnel you have now, it can become very complex but it is then a more specific version of the read option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrJL Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 The read option isn't all about does the QB keep the ball and run or hand it off though, which is what a lot of people seem to be focusing on. it's really more about it can be either a run or a pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 The question is: Can any QB survive 16 games of it?. But most NFL QBs that use read option don't get hit that much more the non-read option QBs. Griffin could have avoided most of the hits he took running RO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCClybun Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 It's not an easy offense to stop. College football over the last decade proves that.The question is: Can any QB survive 16 games of it? I'm not worried about defenses suddenly stopping the offense. I'm worried about RGIII's health in Year 4. He didn't get hurt on any read option plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGriffin Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 He didn't get hurt on any read option plays. I don't understand why this has to be repeated so many times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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