The Official ES All Things Redskins Name Change Thread (Reboot Edition---Read New OP)

[Califan007 The Constipated]

12 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

@Califan007

 

I still don't think you get it.

 

It doesn't matter if we are right here.

 

Have you ever been to the American Indian Museum in DC?  There's a floor devoted to every treaty our country ever broke with them.

 

The country is now tearing down statues overnight and pushing for rooting out every case and reminder of institutionalized racism in our police departments.  We can sit here and wait for them to come for us and try claiming we are right if we want, but we aren't going to win, all things considered.

 

This is easy if we chose to, change name to warriors, use 70th anniversary jerseys with the arrow on the head, and put everything we can in helping Native Americans. Many of them won't take our money out of fear of looking like hypocrites. We can't help the way we can and should because of the name, Snyders charity for them is in shambles because of it, is it worth it?

 

I'm not going to protest against the name, I just know this is a matter of when not if at rate we are going.  This issue does not exist in a vacuum.

 

You should go back 150 pages and read what people were saying on this thread 6 years ago...and then go back another 150 pages and see what some Skins fans were saying way back then. It's the same things being said right now--that the name change is "inevitable" and it's just a "matter of time". It will no doubt be said 150 pages from now in the future.

 

And the statues that are being torn down--again--are a gargantuan amount more harmful and damaging to blacks--and make no mistake, the changes so far are ONLY within the context of black oppression in the U.S.--than anything, at all, having to do with the Redskins towards Native Americans. That is absolutely undeniable, it pales in comparison. There's a reason nobody is using these protests to call for Andrew Jackson to be removed from the $20 bill...

 

The current protests are most definitely NOT a "strike while the iron is hot" type of moment. And it shouldn't be.

[Spaceman Spiff]

5 minutes ago, spjunkies said:

I like Warriors, but how would that work with Golden State existing?

 

Same way as the New York Giants and San Francisco Giants.  And the Arizona Cardinals and the St. Louis Cardinals.

 

Golden State doesn't really exist without Steph and Klay and Draymond and KG anyway.  Give it some time.

[TradeTheBeal!]

I thought it had been settled that a considerable majority of Native Americans appreciate our name/logo/tradition?

 

AOC is just staying on brand and Mike Florio is a toothless doofus.

 

Trying to piggyback this onto BLM right now feels pretty slimy, I think.

 

That said, if Snyder decides to change to the Warriors I would be fine with that and continue to support the team.

[purbeast]

5 years ago I would have gone to war for keeping the name.

 

Now?

 

I'm all for changing the name.  And do it now while we have the change of regime which is supposed to be a huge turning point for the franchise.  Change the name with it.  I don't give a **** at this point.  The team has been so bad for so long that I'm all for change and I think now would be the perfect time.  The "Redskins" team has been a shadow of itself for at least 30 years and has been a legitimate joke for 20 years.  There is no history with the team that is relevant to the past 2 decades.  Just change it and get it over with.

[Burgold]

13 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

I thought it had been settled that a considerable majority of Native Americans appreciate our name/logo/tradition?

 

AOC is just staying on brand and Mike Florio is a toothless doofus.

 

Trying to piggyback this onto BLM right now feels pretty slimy, I think.

 

That said, if Snyder decides to change to the Warriors I would be fine with that and continue to support the team.

Me too. When it comes to sides, I am pro-Redskins because of history, but mostly because every study done of Native American people show they overwhelmingly do not consider the name offensive or to be a problem. They're who matters. Not our interpretation of how we think they should feel, but they, themselves. It's also significant to me that these were outside studies and not studies done by the Redskins or even the NFL.

 

That said, if they opted to go for a name change, I would treat it in the Shakespearean manner. After all, a rose by any other name.... Besides, let's be honest, when I think Redskins I think Joe Gibbs, Art Monk, Gary Clark, Darrell Green, Joe Bostic, and all the rest from the '80's. With very few exceptions, we haven't seen a Redskins' team take the field in thirty years. They've been impostors.

[Fan since a Fetus]

 4 years ago, I was adamant about not changing the name. These last 4 years have taught me that it really doesn’t matter to me, because there are so many really harmful things happening to all of our citizens and this is such a minor issue. This country is currently ****ed and the last thing I’m worried about is a football teams name changing.
 

 It has never been about how good the team played or that the brand is diluted. It was more about me rooting for them every Sunday for my entire life. Like the team is part of the family. But, even that is changing with the way the NFL behaves as a business. It’s just a bunch of billionaires looking out for themselves. It’s a running theme in this country and I’m finding that I care less and less
 

Maybe, I’ll still be here every Sunday watching the Redskins or whatever other name they call themselves. The only way I’ll be mad is if they move or change the colors. I don’t think the name will change though. But let’s hope it will be something better than Warriors cause that is a weak ass high school football name. 
 

in fact, if in some small chance there is a name change, I really hope that it has nothing to do with any kind of violence. I don’t want anything military related or anything of that nature. I need an escape on Sunday. 
 

Outside of nfl game day, I haven’t spent a penny on the nfl in the last 4 years and that is not changing soon.
 

so, change it or not, I don’t care. Just stay somewhere around DC, va, or md, and don’t change the colors. 

 

 

[Renegade7]

32 minutes ago, spjunkies said:

I like Warriors, but how would that work with Golden State existing?

 

There's already a hockey and football team both called the Jets, I don't think it matters, honestly. Last I checked, Snyder pursued naming rights for Washington Warriors in case he got an Arena team, could be wrong in that.

[Burgold]

1 minute ago, Fan since a Fetus said:

 

Maybe, I’ll still be here every Sunday watching the Redskins or whatever other name they call themselves. The only way I’ll be mad is if they move or change the colors. I don’t think the name will change though. But let’s hope it will be something better than Warriors cause that is a weak ass high school football name. 

 

And now, taking the field is your Washington Gridlock!

And now, taking the field are your Washington Lame Ducks!

And now, taking the field are your Washington Supremes featuring Diana Ross!

[TradeTheBeal!]

2 minutes ago, Burgold said:

 

And now, taking the field is your Washington Gridlock!

And now, taking the field are your Washington Lame Ducks!

And now, taking the field are your Washington Supremes featuring Diana Ross!

 

I still remember when Kornheiser floated the DC Clout.

 

I could live with it.

[Burgold]

2 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

I still remember when Kornheiser floated the DC Clout.

 

I could live with it.

Just to  stick it to some... I think I could enjoy The Washington RBG!

 

Of course, then they'd have to face the Dallas Kavanaughs or the Philadelphia Alitos which might make me throw up. Worse, of course, would be the New York Grifters with Trump's face as the team logo.

[Renegade7]

29 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

You should go back 150 pages and read what people were saying on this thread 6 years ago...and then go back another 150 pages and see what some Skins fans were saying way back then. It's the same things being said right now--that the name change is "inevitable" and it's just a "matter of time". It will no doubt be said 150 pages from now in the future.

 

And the statues that are being torn down--again--are a gargantuan amount more harmful and damaging to blacks--and make no mistake, the changes so far are ONLY within the context of black oppression in the U.S.--than anything, at all, having to do with the Redskins towards Native Americans. That is absolutely undeniable, it pales in comparison. There's a reason nobody is using these protests to call for Andrew Jackson to be removed from the $20 bill...

 

The current protests are most definitely NOT a "strike while the iron is hot" type of moment. And it shouldn't be.

 

I don't have to go back anywhere in this thread, I've been in this thread since it started.

 

If you really think what's going on outside is just about racism against blacks, you are wrong.

 

If you think Kapernick threw away his career just because of police brutality against blacks only and no other race, you are wrong.

 

If you think it's right to root against institutional racism in this country at every level and we won't get swept into that eventually, I'm not going to try to change your mind, I don't think i need to.

 

This is and always will be bigger then us, that's huge reason why every time they come after the name on a national level it seems part of a bigger conversation.

 

The only thing that comes close to how bad this country did Blacks is how bad we did Native Americans.  They will let us keep the name, but they won't let us help them the way they really need us to unless we change it. Why?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

7 minutes ago, purbeast said:

5 years ago I would have gone to war for keeping the name.

 

Now?

 

I'm all for changing the name.  And do it now while we have the change of regime which is supposed to be a huge turning point for the franchise.  Change the name with it.  I don't give a **** at this point.  The team has been so bad for so long that I'm all for change and I think now would be the perfect time.  The "Redskins" team has been a shadow of itself for at least 30 years and has been a legitimate joke for 20 years.  There is no history with the team that is relevant to the past 2 decades.  Just change it and get it over with.

 

Would rooting for the 3-13 Warriors be more enjoyable for you? Would cheering for a team that only makes the playoffs 2 times in the next 10 years and never wins in the postseason be acceptable for anyone because we aren't calling them the Redskins anymore? Would Snyder hiring a Bruce Allen clone to run the franchise for the next 10 years be more tolerable because he's ruining the Washington Braves and not the Washington Redskins?

 

 

 

 

[Fresh8686]

12 hours ago, steve09ru said:

Wasn’t saying it towards you but just the conversation.  But Ignore it like we have done- it’ll go away.  
 

 

This is the same thinking privileged others have about the pain of police brutality and systemic racism. If you ignore their pain, hopefully they'll go away and stop bothering you.

 

Personally, I want the name changed, because it does hurt people. I'm not at all saying it hurts on the same level of police brutality and systemic racism, but it does hurt. My wife is partially native american and she hates the name. I'd rather just call them the Washington Warriors in my house than ignore my wife's issue with this and hope it goes away. Her feelings are important to me and so are the feelings of every other native american who does feel some sort of pain about this. 

 

And miss me with the often trotted out line that only white people who aren't connected with Native Americans don't like this. I'm not making my decisions based on those people and if some native americans are fine with the name and symbol, I get that too, but I also guarantee you, we could find a way to honor them that is even better than the name "Redskins" that they would also be fine with.

 

I don't feel a cost or pain to changing the name. Certainly, one that isn't commensurate to the pain and disappointment I remember seeing on my Wife's face when I wasn't immediately on board with changing the name.

[Burgold]

Not really related, but I thought this well said.

 

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Just now, Renegade7 said:

 

I don't have to go back anywhere in this thread, I've been in this thread since it started.

 

If you really think what's going on outside is just about racism against blacks, you are wrong.

 

If you think Kapernick threw away his career just because of police brutality against blacks only and no other race, you are wrong.

 

If you think it's right to root against institutional racism in this country at every level and we won't get swept into that eventually, I'm not going to try to change your mind, I don't think i need to.

 

This is and always will be bigger then us, that's huge reason why every time they come after the name on a national level it seems part of a bigger conversation.

 

The only thing that comes close to how bad this country did Blacks is how bad we did Native Americans.  They will let us keep the name, but they won't let us help them the way they really need us to unless we change it. Why?

 

You want far more to result from all this than what will actually result.

 

Again...Andrew Jackson being honored and immortalized on our currency is a billion times more damaging and insulting to Native Americans than the Redskins' name. If what you're saying is correct, there will be a strong movement to change that LONG before anyone starts seriously wanting the Skins to change their team name. And considering the people who are supposed to be harmed by the name and imagery apparently don't really give a rat's ass one way or another, thinking the name change will be part of some sweeping cultural changes is more wishful thinking than unbiased analysis.

 

Every racist aspect of the country's history is not going to start being addressed just because these riots are taking place. That's naive and unrealistic.

[Llevron]

I still think the easy middle ground if you want it is to change the mascot to a wild ass feral hog with burgundy skin. Bam. Redskins, Hogs, pig skins whatever. 

[Renegade7]

15 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

You want far more to result from all this than what will actually result.

 

Again...Andrew Jackson being honored and immortalized on our currency is a billion times more damaging and insulting to Native Americans than the Redskins' name. If what you're saying is correct, there will be a strong movement to change that LONG before anyone starts seriously wanting the Skins to change their team name. And considering the people who are supposed to be harmed by the name and imagery apparently don't really give a rat's ass one way or another, thinking the name change will be part of some sweeping cultural changes is more wishful thinking than unbiased analysis.

 

Every racist aspect of the country's history is not going to start being addressed just because these riots are taking place. That's naive and unrealistic.

 

Believe what you want to believe, US Government has been talking about putting Tubman on the $20 bill instead of Jackson for a while now.  You are seeming extremely out of touch right now, and that's another reason a lot of folks can't stand this franchise.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/the-goods/2019/5/23/18637348/steve-mnuchin-harriet-tubman-20-bill-andrew-jackson

 

If you think this being put out there its tabled until Trump leaves office is also in a vacuum, you are being naive and unrealistic.  These are now global protests by the way, not just riots.

 

I want our franchise to be more able to participate in the process of healing this countries wounds, and we are constantly being told we have to change the name first. That's where we are.

[redskinss]

Serious question for people who say the name doesn't matter, why dont you cheer for the ravens?

I'm not saying go root for them if you don't like it, my question isn't intended to be combative or snarky.

I really want to know why you dont root for them.

They're a far better run organization, they're only like 40 miles away so it's not a hometown thing.

The skins have lost thousands of fans to them over the last twenty five years but you're still here plugging away on extremeskins.

If not because of the name then why?

 

Name me one thing that hasn't changed since the 80's other than the word redskins?

If that's not the base of your loyalty then what is?

Is it Washington? Because they don't even play in Washington, haven't in 30 years.

I suppose just the name Washington is enough for some but for me I need the combination of Washington and Redskins for me to feel like it's the same team I've been addicted to since birth.

I've said it several times but I dont know the Washington warriors, they'd be an expansion team to me and feel the same as switching loyalties to the ravens and my heart doesn't belong to the ravens.

 

[Mr. Sinister]

7 hours ago, Califan007 said:

Suck it up.

 

No

[Llevron]

3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Shouldn't have to, but OT.

 

That thread already got bumped for that reason.

 

 

FYI the most underused function in this forum is you can copy and paste peoples posts after you quote them and move them someplace else. 

 

But I agree with you they shouldnt have to - and actually me saying they should was before I thought about what would have happened if they did. So i take it back. 

 

edit - i dont know if you get alerts when i quote you this way though. So that may be useless actually 

[Mr. Sinister]

1 hour ago, RansomthePasserby said:

Yup, I used to feel like I would stop rooting for the team if they changed their name and uniform. It’s different now, though. Now I would welcome the change and I think I would feel more pride in the team than I have felt from anything they’ve done on the field in the last 5 years.
 

Just don’t pick something goofy.

 

Agreed, 100 %

[Koala]

Is there any particular reason that this thread is suddenly hot again?  Did something happen that I missed?  Or did people just figure, "Well since we already have our pitchforks out anyway..."

[spjunkies]

This can get ripped down along with the name change. 

 

[Fresh8686]

16 minutes ago, redskinss said:

Serious question for people who say the name doesn't matter, why dont you cheer for the ravens?

I'm not saying go root for them if you don't like it, my question isn't intended to be combative or snarky.

I really want to know why you dont root for them.

They're a far better run organization, they're only like 40 miles away so it's not a hometown thing.

The skins have lost thousands of fans to them over the last twenty five years but you're still here plugging away on extremeskins.

If not because of the name then why?

 

Name me one thing that hasn't changed since the 80's other than the word redskins?

If that's not the base of your loyalty then what is?

Is it Washington? Because they don't even play in Washington, haven't in 30 years.

I suppose just the name Washington is enough for some but for me I need the combination of Washington and Redskins for me to feel like it's the same team I've been addicted to since birth.

I've said it several times but I dont know the Washington warriors, they'd be an expansion team to me and feel the same as switching loyalties to the ravens and my heart doesn't belong to the ravens.

 

 

What? No offense, but I disagree with some of your above assumptions.

 

It can still be our hometown team as the Washington Warriors, still the same team I rooted for, with the same history, but now paired with evolution, growth.  The name is not at all what makes this connection. It has to do with the shared history me and my family have with this team and the overall shared history our towns have them. That's what makes a team yours, it's that shared history. All those Sundays as a kid with your family, to those Sundays as a man with my own family and the way the whole city was up or down on Monday depending on whether we won. We invested in that team, in our guys, and just like the guy 's names changed with every season, but the connection still remained, so to would that be the case if the team name changed.

 

Change does not divorce you from your past, instead it progresses the arc of your overall story. The Washington Redskins are a part of my story and my life and they will still be a part of my story as the Washington Warriors or whatever they decide to call themselves. I love the thought of having a team that has grown with me over time, just like I love the thought that in our history we grew to have the first black QB to win the Superbowl and we had the most success with a high character coach like Joe Gibbs. I love those high-points of our shared history and more of those high-points won't negate the past ones. 

 

[Renegade7]

2 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

 

FYI the most underused function in this forum is you can copy and paste peoples posts after you quote them and move them someplace else. 

 

But I agree with you they shouldnt have to - and actually me saying they should was before I thought about what would have happened if they did. So i take it back. 

 

edit - i dont know if you get alerts when i quote you this way though. So that may be useless actually 

 

I feel you, my bad.

 

For the record - I get emails for pms, quotes, and reactions, so I can see stuff even when I'm not logged in.

 

I'm considering turning that off and leaving just for PMs.