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The Official ES All Things Redskins Name Change Thread (Reboot Edition---Read New OP)


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1 minute ago, JSSkinz said:

I think we should try to put this to bed, communicate with the Native Americans, ask them if they will support certifying the name and if they don't feel comfortable doing that then let them come up with a new name that pays tribute to Native Americans, that way we keep the tradition and we gain the support of Native Americans while doing so.

 

 

 

Most of them have more important issues to worry about. They're probably not going to go out of their way to show their support. The Redskins could do more for their communities, but they would just be accused of paying them off.

 

But, I think the use of the Redskins nickname by their own schools and programs is a way of them showing support. Even if their not yelling it from the top of the mountains. But, for some reason everyone wants to ignore that.

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The team should have stayed out of it. Who did NOT know this is how it would go?

They open themselves up to every hit they have taken, and that is just stupidity.

 

Used to be i was dead on in favor of the name. Now, it's a different world, things are changing rapidly. If it helps keep our team from bearing the brunt of all this sort of crap and helps keep players focused, then change it already.

Just stop being so ****ing stupid.
"Oh, but the team name means this, and native Americans believe that, and.."
and who gives a ****? Nobody, that's who.
 

The only people left who will be saying it are us. And I'm about tired of constant ****ing controversy and anger.
Change it. Get it over with. And do it before a draft pick decides he won't play here because of it. That day is getting closer.

 

~Bang

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1 hour ago, Califan007 said:

 

'The majority of outside perspective is that it's a racist name"

 

That's not even remotely true.

 

a point likely lost in this exchange is, why did he feel so confident that his point was correct? it's because virtually all of the information that we consume, however we get our 'news', has been saying this. we have heard  native American activists speak on the subject as if natives are of one voice and the topic and it is settled. but they are, in fact, in the vast minority when we look at objective polling data.

its a warping of reality thats a result of filter bubbles and people playing loose with the facts for some ideological goal. we would be better off as people if we thought logically and critically about things we think are true rather than emotionally before forming firm opinions. and we modify our opinions based on the new information rather than doubling down. 

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54 minutes ago, bearrock said:

 

The existence of an injustice or issue that is magnitudes greater than the problem is not a justification to ignore the problem.  If I had to choose between the name change and taking Jackson off the 20, I would obviously choose Jackson.  But why not both?

 

 

These polls may not capture the complexity of the thoughts behind the numbers.  Overwhelming majority of Native Americans may say they don't find the name offensive.  What would their answer be if they were asked whether they could understand why a Native American may find it offensive?  What about if they were asked whether they would prefer or be just as happy with another name that is associated with Native American heritage or culture but without any history of derogatory use?

 

 

No one is marching out there alongside the protesters advocating for the name change.  But broad events like this can cause internal reflection.  If some of us think "Well damn.  Look at what it is like to live in the country as black person or POC.   I guess we haven't made as much progress as some of us we thought we did.   There are things about these kinds of injustices that's really hard for someone who doesn't live it everyday to relate to."  That principle carries over to the name.  My enjoyment in it is infinitesimal in its importance to the hurt that some native american person would feel.   If there is a different name that could honor the culture and heritage, but without the baggage, why not change it?  

 

1) Not my point. My point was that the far bigger issues at play right now. are not causing the name change to be given more importance right now, and probably won't in the future due to the entire movement having more or less died out with the Supreme Court ruling. Strong doubt this brings it back to life other than (as I said earlier) as message board fodder for a few days and a few public figures tossing it out.

 

2) What would native Americans answer be if they were asked whether they understood why native Americans may find the term offensive?...Huh?

 

Oh, wait, you're talking about Skins fans? lol...at any rate, believe it or not, there is no other native American name that can NOT be associated with a derogatory usage...including the term "Native American" (seriously).

 

3) All of that would be relevant if native Americans themselves didn't overwhelmingly indicate they're fine with the name. While we can speculate as to how they would "really" respond if this this and that, all we have are the numerous polls conducted and a ****-ton of circumstantial evidence to point to those polls being an accurate reflection of their views.

 

It will be hard to spur change if people put themselves in the shoes of NAs only to realize they see the team name "Redskins" as pretty much everyone else sees it. One of the issues, in my opinion anyway, is that we should never view native Americans as one monolithic group who all hold the same viewpoint...they had various tribes and histories and different languages and customs spread out among the tens of millions that existed before Europeans showed up. It's like "Native Americans" is a continent and each tribe was its own country within that continent. Bad example, but you get what I'm saying lol...I assumed they would prefer to be identified by tribe name--Navajo instead of American Indian, for example. But then you have NAs who identify more as a race than as a tribe, so Native American or Indigenous might be preferred.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, grego said:

 

a point likely lost in this exchange is, why did he feel so confident that his point was correct? it's because virtually all of the information that we consume, however we get our 'news', have been saying this. we have heard  native American activists who speak on the subject as if natives are of one voice and the topic is settled. but they are, in fact, in the vast minority when we look at objective polling data.

its a warping of reality thats a result of filter bubbles and people playing loose with the facts for some ideological goal. we would be better off as people if we thought logically and critically about things we think are true rather than emotionally before forming firm opinions. 

 

 

Agree with all of that...one thing this whole name debate caused me to do is just a ****-ton of research on the subject, from a wide variety of sources on both sides of the debate. it's astounding how little some people know who are convinced beyond doubt that "redskins" is a racial slur. my cousin was one of them lol...love her to death and she definitely seems intelligent and very in-tune with social injustices all around the globe, but on the topic of the name "Redskins" she was throwing out debunked 'facts" and passing on articles full of flaws on her facebook page. I finally responded to one (about the bloody scalp story) and kind of eviscerated the article (not her)...she said "Well, damn, Cali!" (well, used my real name lol)...I felt like I had to apologize afterward and said while there is definitely a valid debate to be had about NA culture and sports, the "Redskins=bloody scalps" myth doesn't belong in it. The article was in GQ, by the way.

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2 minutes ago, Bang said:

And I'm about tired of constant ****ing controversy and anger.

 

For me there's no anger, there's no controversy. Sure, Florio can throw out the barb, which might stir it up (or he gets hilariously and fantastically roasted, like yesterday), or AOC will throw it out to get her clicks and likes, but it dies quick. They have no legal recourse. They can cry offensive yadda, yadda, yadda, but wars over man, Wormer dropped the big one.

 

Galdi nails it here:

 

 

I refuse to get into emotionally driven arguments. They're not rational and cannot be reasoned with. Best thing to do is ignore it, let the emotional fire burn, Moonbeam and other Cause Heads will find something else to be pissed off about. If the rational, factual, data changes, then, by all means, change it. If the Post survey had found 90% of Natives hated the name, change it. But not for a click-bait clowns like Florio and Wise.

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21 minutes ago, Bang said:

The team should have stayed out of it. Who did NOT know this is how it would go?

They open themselves up to every hit they have taken, and that is just stupidity.

 

Used to be i was dead on in favor of the name. Now, it's a different world, things are changing rapidly. If it helps keep our team from bearing the brunt of all this sort of crap and helps keep players focused, then change it already.

Just stop being so ****ing stupid.
"Oh, but the team name means this, and native Americans believe that, and.."
and who gives a ****? Nobody, that's who.
 

The only people left who will be saying it are us. And I'm about tired of constant ****ing controversy and anger.
Change it. Get it over with. And do it before a draft pick decides he won't play here because of it. That day is getting closer.

 

~Bang

 

The brunt of what crap?

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

But not for a click-bait clowns like Florio and Wise.

 

 

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1 hour ago, JSSkinz said:

I think we should try to put this to bed, communicate with the Native Americans, ask them if they will support certifying the name and if they don't feel comfortable doing that then let them come up with a new name that pays tribute to Native Americans, that way we keep the tradition and we gain the support of Native Americans while doing so.

 

 

This has been been put to bed - Ironically by an opponent of the name - the Washington Post.  When they surveyed native Americans and still found out that over 90% had no issues with the name and more native Americans like the name than dislike it the name changers were defeated.  However a common human reaction is the inability to accept being wrong (ie Florio and others), so they can't let it go. Now they want a survey that doesn't count any native Americans opposed to their position (I guess because in their eyes those people are too stupid to understand what they should take offense too). 

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1 minute ago, nonniey said:

This has been been put to bed - Ironically by an opponent of the name - the Washington Post.  When they surveyed native Americans and still found out that over 90% had no issues with the name and more native Americans like the name than dislike it the name changers were defeated.  However a common human reaction is the inability to accept being wrong (ie Florio and others), so they can't let it go. Now they want a survey that doesn't count any native Americans opposed to their position (I guess because in there eyes those people are stupid to understand what they should take offense too). 

 

To borrow a phrase, facts don't care about peoples feelings.  

 

I agree, it should be left up to Native Americans.  People getting offended on their behalf is arguably the silliest thing about this whole ordeal.

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57 minutes ago, Fan since a Fetus said:

 

Most of them have more important issues to worry about. They're probably not going to go out of their way to show their support. The Redskins could do more for their communities, but they would just be accused of paying them off.

 

 

 

They already are...and already have been lol...Snyder even did **** on his own and without any fanfare.

 

A lot of tribes are (and would be) happy to be associated with a generous charitable organization founded by a sports team whose name they really don't have a problem with (and who many of their elders may even be fans of, if history is any indication).

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9 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

The brunt of what crap?

 

 

 

 

So this thread was reopened just for the hell of it?

Team stuck it's foot out and stepped right in it.

How long before all of it turns into draft picks who refuse to play here?
Do we think that is beyond possibility?

 

~Bang

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  • Jumbo locked this topic
  • 5 weeks later...

On page C8, of today's Washington Post, is a picture that illustrates both  the greatest problem AND THE BEST SOLUTION to the name change dilemma. 

First down, a Gen-X video gamer [certainly a group we hope to gain] definition of the word SKIN: A customization option for a player's in-game avatar or equipment that changes its appearance. Skins are featured as part of metagame loot drops, with most games rewarding them based on scarcity or by awarding skins for completing certain objectives or placing high in competitive modes. This allows players to use skins to display rare achievements or high skill level.

Second down:  FedEx field is where  the team plays.

Third down, the picture of  game gear referenced above featuring a jacket saying "3x Super Bowl Champs"

Touchdown!  The answer becomes obvious:  Choosing the name "Washington X-Skins" gives the team new life, joining such examples as the X-Men or Star Wars' X-Fighters.  Fans can display their kinship with the team by creating an X on their chests with crossed forearms. You only have to change one syllable in the fight song.

And FedEx couldn't be happier.

They join Marvel Comics and  Gen-X gamers  [see how I prepared you in the second paragraph?] in unwitting tribute to this great franchise.

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ok...we figured we'd have to bring this back at some point, and at least it's a matter where in the past the stupid really has been plentiful on either side 

 

 

per my personal take, i've been a skins fan for 60 years now and have given much unpaid time supporting this community because of that love for the team for 14 years....throughout my life i thought i have had good reasons to advocate keeping the name over what was always very little complaint ime...my main deal was it was to honor and celebrate, not to demean

 

but i was never what i call over-invested per it's actual importance vs any real issues that may exist....much of the argument behind  "protest" i'd encounter seemed weak to me (i see some error on my part, there, mainly from younger more headstrong days) but i also thought much of the "pro-name" stuff was poorly expressed with weak or even sadass arguments, too

 

i won't review those arguments pro or con in more detail because it's been done to death in here and i quit posting much on it long ago, but you guys can continue doing that rehash if you like as it back in the news, understandably (i would think current players would have a big voice here)

 

but now, for more than one reason, i say yes, change the name 

 

i'd actually take it as maybe a chance for a positive reboot with a new staff, new [players,  and a new identity for the franchise other than "perennial incompetent loser"

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  • Jumbo unlocked this topic

if they indeed change the name, which is what eventually will happen, i would hope the keep the logo, HTTR, the fight song.

i personally would like it if they changed it to the "Sons of Washington"  

be the first team in professional sports to have a team name before the city!

you can still sing the fight songs.

you can still keep the logo

you force announcers to say the entire team name

and you know, it's catchy! hehehe

 

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While I like the idea of a "reboot",I'm a cynic where the team is concerned and unsure if it'll make one bit of difference. Grumble **** complain. ;) 

My position really hasn't changed over the years though. It's the opinions of the Native Americans that I listen to on this one. . They want it changed,so be it I'm in 110 percent. Other opinions,(those not Native American),are irrelevant to me. Same attitude I have with a few of the white assholes I hear talk at work about the Confederate Flag and African Americans,(different topic and another thread just showing the similarity in attitude). 

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