The Official ES All Things Redskins Name Change Thread (Reboot Edition---Read New OP)

[RedskinsFan44]

Redskins, not offensive. This one, um, I don't know what to say.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/highschool-prep-rally/forget-redskins-high-school-california-mascot-least-offensive-113535243.html

I think that the Arabs' mascot is offensive in the way Chief Wahoo and the Redskins' cartoonish mascot in the 60s was.  The current logo on the helmet reminds me of the type of portrait you would see on a coin.  Then again, the Fighting Irish mascot shown previously in this thread is just as cartoonish and offensive, but as the Irish don't have oppressed status (anymore, to most people), few care. I would add that the Arab mascot is dicey because of antipathy towards Arabs in a large segment of our society due to recent events, I don't feel that there is much of that towards NAs in the current era. My feeling on the Redskins' moniker is that intent and meaning count, it is an homage to the past.  I can live with changing it to Warriors and keeping the rest of the tradition but I think that those rallying against it are making much over nothing as I do not see the team treating the image of NAs in a negative way.

 

Another point is sports mascots and the behavior of fans is not a serious dialog about race or issues facing the nation, it is about having fun and celebrating life, much like Halloween, Mardi Gras, New Years Eve, etc.

[skinfan2k]

If you think Redskins is offensive, check out this article.  

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/highschool-prep-rally/forget-redskins-high-school-california-mascot-least-offensive-113535243.html

[BleedBNG]

One of the protestors last night said that changing the name is just the tip of the iceberg. They want ALL Redskins history erased from the record books because the symbol and name have been "too painful" for their children.

 

Oh well, goodbye Blackhawks... and remember... it's for the children.

 

If you think Redskins is offensive, check out this article.

http://sports.yahoo....-113535243.html

Already posted earlier. If an Arab HS wanted to call itself 'The Americans' and have a mascot of Uncle Sam with his beard and a mean scowl, seriously... would anyone here be offended? Anyways, I do like the idea of the belly dancer.

[devil421]

I am against a name change but I have a suggestion for Mr. Snyder if it comes to that: the Washington Warfighters.

 

There is just so much synegry between a change to a US Military theme, the team's location, and the quarterback we have right now to not do it.

 

With Griffin Jr we have one of the world's most marketable sports athletes who is the son of two US Army soldiers. The team supports and honors service members at every home game and throughout the offseason. And of course the team is located right smack dab in the milddle of the HQ of the Military Industrial Complex. Even th ebanner on the side of this website says "Salute to Service".

 

Mr. Snyder would be foolish not to cash in on a once in a lifetime convergence of events like he has right now. He could cite the controversy, his love of our nation's military and his new quarterback's history as the reasons for his change of heart.

 

He could wipe away all the public ill will with a deft pivot to honoring our nation's military with a name/theme change. Sure it will hurt for a few years but things change, wounds heal and life moves on.

 

And he could make the name change conditional on removing the Cowboys from the division as they belong in the NFC South in my opinion. There is nothinhg East about a team that plays in the southwest of the country.

 

The last thing we need in this country is more glorification of war and military worship.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

One of the protestors last night said that changing the name is just the tip of the iceberg. They want ALL Redskins history erased from the record books because the symbol and name have been "too painful" for their children.

That means previous stories and tv programs, about George Allen, Joe Gibbs, Doug Williams, the Super Bowls and Sammy Baugh will never be shown again. RGIII's magical season in 2012 will be deamed "too offensive" and banned from television.

That may be the end of my fandom for his organization. I can't bring myself to root for an expansion team, it just wouldn't feel right.

How can anyone even legitimately fear that something like that could happen? You can flip to the History Channel and watch a documentary about Hitler. Something tells me we will all be allowed to watch and acknowledge our 80+ year history even if the name changes one day.

[Boss_Hogg]

How can anyone even legitimately fear that something like that could happen? You can flip to the History Channel and watch a documentary about Hitler. Something tells me we will all be allowed to watch and acknowledge our 80+ year history even if the name changes one day.

I'm just quoting the protestor.

But let that sink in for a minute, these yahoos will continue to complain, whine, and squeal like little ****es until they get their way.

Therefore a name change will not satisfy them, it will only give them more momentum.

[thebluefood]

The redskins have won three superbowls. If names are cursed by failure our curse is weak compared to whatever voodoo has hit the Bills, Vikings, Eagles, Falcons, Cardinals, and Seahawks. Seems like birds are cursed commonly. The ravens must have paid the witch doctors off.

Not to mention two NFL Championships before the Super Bowl-era. We were the dominate team in the East in the late 1930s and through the mid-1940s. If the Bears weren't so incredible during those years, we'd probably have another title or two on our resume.

 

This whole thing about the team being cursed is nonsense. Why would it take whoever has this "hex" on us so long to make it happen?

[grego]

The last thing we need in this country is more glorification of war and military worship.

 

congratulations. that is officially one of the dumbest things I've ever read on this board.  

 

military worship? glorification of war?

 

you should take a minute to thank a vet tomorrow that you're free to post such ridiculous, hyperbolic, idiotic comments on message boards.

 

and I cant even type the rest of the things i'd like to at the moment.

[BleedBNG]

You can flip to the History Channel and watch a documentary about Hitler. 

 

Speaking of Hitler... the swastika symbol means 2 things... hate (mostly to Europe, Israel, and the western hemisphere) and good luck (Hindus and Buddhists). The first time I visited my neighbor (who is from India), I noticed a little swastika symbol hanging on his wall. It didn't offend me at all because I knew what it meant TO HIM. 

[Mr. Sinister]

congratulations. that is officially one of the dumbest things I've ever read on this board.  

 

military worship? glorification of war?

 

you should take a minute to thank a vet tomorrow that you're free to post such ridiculous, hyperbolic, idiotic comments on message boards.

 

and I cant even type the rest of the things i'd like to at the moment.

 

 

I've seen you post before, and can't really fault you for feeling this way, but I 'm pretty sure his point wasn't meant to be as harsh/insensitive as it may have come across to you. I've thought long and hard about this over the last few years, and have heard many opinions (mainly from those in my own family who have served, from friends of mine who currently serve, and from people I talked to when I went through the enlistment process with the Air Force.

 

I believe his point had more to do with how people on the outside view the military, rather than it being a slight/downplaying of the people who have served, or refusal to acknowledge the sacrifices they make on a daily basis. Anyways, its best served for another thread (sometime down the road, I guess)

[grego]

 

I believe his point had more to do with how people on the outside view the military, rather than it being a slight/downplaying of the people who have served, or refusal to acknowledge the sacrifices they make on a daily basis. 

 

 

i dont know. 106 posts a sensible, benign comment suggesting we could rename the team something that honors the military. wacky, being that we are the nations capital, apparently, because devil essentially equates his idea with "glorification of war" and "military worship".

 

first of all, anyone saying such things about the american military is way off base, imo. but saying those things in response to that post- a week old post that mentioned the military- i think its clear what that posters feelings about the military are. 

 

having had recent (in the past year or so) conversations with ES posters who equate the job our military does with that of elementary school teachers (who are great, btw, by and large), well, i'm not dealing with that. 

[Bang]

i don't know if Mr sinister is saying tha abut the actual military,, but the glorification of it all is prevalent. Historically, societies who go heavy on the military and nationlist symbolism.. it doesn't tend to end well.

I respect and admire our military as should we all.. but we should also not be blinded by the lights, so to speak so we can't keep a clear mind to keep track of what they're doing.

Maybe it was me, but it felt kind of icky that the cheerleaders salute to the troops yesterday in denver, i think it was.. was a star spangled bra and a tiny pair of red panties.

Kardashian Kulture.

Anyway, that'll possibly send the thread off the rails. Sorry for that.

~Bang

[Larry]

Anyway, that'll possibly send the thread off the rails. Sorry for that.

~Bang

Yeah, sure wouldn't want this thread to become overrun with pics of cheerleaders in red, white, and blue bikinis.

[celticsalmon]

Snyder needs to give up the name. The defense of it is empty and futile in this day and age. Take on a more noble battle liek turning your franchise around! Under his ownership "Redskins" has become offensive to the players and coaches who played before he bought the team and the many fans who cheered winners! He had nothing to do with the Lombardi trophies!

 

So Snyder for one in your footbal life, do the right thing and change the name.

 

And fans it's not that difficult to give up a name.  Just ask folks in Baltimore, or St. Louis or LA whose beloved franchise moved out of town. 

[Bang]

We'd rather ask the actual natives, and listen to what they say.

~Fans

[thebluefood]

We'd rather ask the actual natives, and listen to what they say.

~Fans

This is what I've kept saying over and over and over again and it's frustrating because it seems like no one's listening. By and large, we're not bigots and we truly want to know how Native Americans feel on the issue. If the prevailing sentiment is that they do find it offensive, by all means, please change the name. 

[RonArtest15]

This is what I've kept saying over and over and over again and it's frustrating because it seems like no one's listening. By and large, we're not bigots and we truly want to know how Native Americans feel on the issue. If the prevailing sentiment is that they do find it offensive, by all means, please change the name. 

 

This is EXACTLY my stance.  I don't need people like Peter King, Bob Costas, etc. telling me how or why I should find a name offensive.  Now, I would change my viewpoint if there was an overwhelming # of Native Americans who do take offense to the Redskins name. 

[devil421]

congratulations. that is officially one of the dumbest things I've ever read on this board.  

 

military worship? glorification of war?

 

you should take a minute to thank a vet tomorrow that you're free to post such ridiculous, hyperbolic, idiotic comments on message boards.

 

and I cant even type the rest of the things i'd like to at the moment.

 

Suggesting naming a professional sports franchise after a military theme is beyond the pale.  I'm sure recruiters would love it though.  Both of my grandfathers served in wars (WW2 and Korea).  One grandmother was a Colonel's secretary at Belvoir for 20 years.  My stepfather served in Vietnam.  My mother works for NAVSEA.  So yeah, you know nothing of my perspective.  I respect vets.  What I don't respect is the attitude that military deserves some sort of special worship and it appears to me to be getting worse and worse as the country slowly declines and like Bang said, that historically does not end well.  It goes from basic recognition (on days like Veteran's Day) to ceremonial worship when I attend *any* sporting event and it's like attending church but instead of standing and praising god, a booming voice comes over the speaker telling me to stand and praise the random guy in the dress blues standing at center ice.  No thanks.  My grandfathers are spinning in their graves right now at what is considered "just war" in this country today.

[elkabong82]

While I agree that the military level of praise in this country at times gets out of hand, bordering on worship. That being said, I don't have an issue with a military theme in the nation's capital for a football team. Football and war/battle use a lot of the same language and symbolism. If we do have to change the name and can't go back to Braves, then I would want a military theme. I don't think it would be beyond the pale at all. Once upon a time the NFL had the Lousiville Colonels, Portsmouth Spartans (military, just not American), and there have been teams in other sports that used Generals. We have the Nationals and Capitals, why not the Washington Militia or Warriors or Soldiers or Generals? 

[devil421]

While I agree that the military level of praise in this country at times gets out of hand, bordering on worship. That being said, I don't have an issue with a military theme in the nation's capital for a football team. Football and war/battle use a lot of the same language and symbolism. If we do have to change the name and can't go back to Braves, then I would want a military theme. I don't think it would be beyond the pale at all. Once upon a time the NFL had the Lousiville Colonels, Portsmouth Spartans (military, just not American), and there have been teams in other sports that used Generals. We have the Nationals and Capitals, why not the Washington Militia or Warriors or Soldiers or Generals? 

Maybe there's a reason those names are history too?  Not sure I understand the rationale behind removing an 80 year old name and replacing with it with a name that was long ago determined, for whatever reason, to not be viable.

 

Fwiw, good luck getting "Militia".  Considering the current political climate, you're more likely to raise less hackles by keeping "Redskins".

[elkabong82]

Maybe there's a reason those names are history too?  Not sure I understand the rationale behind removing an 80 year old name and replacing with it with a name that was long ago determined, for whatever reason, to not be viable.

 

Fwiw, good luck getting "Militia".  Considering the current political climate, you're more likely to raise less hackles by keeping "Redskins".

 

Yeah, good point on militia. There are current teams using Warriors obviously. People would definitely support a military theme. Mist in this thread, one of the more fickle fanbase websites, have said if a change happens a military theme would be good, though some don;t like Warriors. All I'm saying with military names is that military is tied in with the NFL already, and there is similar jargon and between the two. There is already a very strong link, so a team using that theme wouldn't be out of the question at all. 

 

The Washington Generals already existed in the 70's as an exhibition basketball team and a minor league baseball team in Jackson, TN currently uses it, plus we've had Senators here, and again we have Nationals and Capitals here now. I would go so far as to say that if we have to change the name and a Native American theme is off the table, that something military or patriotic would almost be expected given the area and the names of other teams here.

 

Personally I think Generals would be great.

[Destino]

Like I said before, if the Redskins have to change their names I'd rather the team get out of the honoring business.  No more native americans, no military, no whatever else they can come up with.  Make this team about the football and nothing else.  

[Tyron Biggums]

My Redskins journey begins

 My story and love for the Washington Redskins began long ago. My dad’s Indian name is Estekan (“Always there, Dependable one”).  He was an educated man, rich in our culture but also a teacher and business man.  I was raised in two worlds, my father wanted to make sure I was massively successful, so he made sure I had both worlds (our ways and mainstream society) in my teachings.  My dad taught me the ways of our tribe’s culture which included many things from history, traditional songs, language but the most important was being proud of who we are, always standing up for who we are and showing that we are the equal to every man in the world. 

I grew up with long hair that was braided and was called a “girl” by white people and taunted by non reservation schools because of my hair.  Some might have turned bitter toward the taunts however, thanks to my parents’ teachings, I turned to my culture and pride in our heritage and my PRIDE grew stronger.  I began to look for everything that had Native American flair to it such as sports teams and I always rooted for them to win.  In TV shows and movies, I always wished the Indians won (and beat John Wayne).  To me, being a Native American meant pride, strength, passion, and courage to fight hard for what you believe in.   In sports, I played basketball, ran track and cross country and football with my braids because I was sooo proud of my heritage.  I was proud to be a Browning Indian.  In fact, our High School in Browning is famous for running on to the basketball court with our War Bonnets on prior to the games.   It was natural…I WAS REDSKIN TO THE CORE!

My Father also stressed the importance of being the “white man’s equal”—Education.   He was an educated man (one of the first), and made sure I was a good student too.  He also told me I needed to learn how to talk like the man on the 5 o’clock news, dress like him, and never let anyone treat you less.  So in the 8^th grade, we elected to cut my hair…my mom cried.  Still my goal was to do big things in life and having a proper hair cut made sense to me.   School and sports were my life and I was always top of my class and finished HS near the top with scholarships to college.   Today, I am proud to say I hold three college degrees, and three initials after my name, “MBA”.   

http://network.yardbarker.com/all_sports/article_external/native_american_fan_tells_why_he_is_blackfeet_strong_redskins_proud/15032966

They named an NFL team for ME? Great article link:

 

[grego]

  What I don't respect is the attitude that military deserves some sort of special worship and it appears to me to be getting worse and worse as the country slowly declines and like Bang said, that historically does not end well.  It goes from basic recognition (on days like Veteran's Day) to ceremonial worship when I attend *any* sporting event and it's like attending church but instead of standing and praising god, a booming voice comes over the speaker telling me to stand and praise the random guy in the dress blues standing at center ice.  No thanks.  My grandfathers are spinning in their graves right now at what is considered "just war" in this country today.

 

worship? praising the 'random guy' like you're praising God?

 

yeah, i'd say my initial post was right on. first of all, its not some 'random guy'- trivializing an individiual like that isnt helping your point. secondly, its hardly 'worship'. you're completely exaggerating how people display thanks and respect, and minimizing an individual who did something good all in the same sentence.

 

congratulations. well done.

 

So yeah, you know nothing of my perspective.

 

 

any perspective that makes one believe what you are saying is one i'm not particularly interested in. 

 

my perspective is a little different. i'm a foreign born immigrant to this country who decided to serve when 'serve' actually meant to serve. i wanted to pay back the country that gave my family a new life. i wanted to earn my citizenship, unlike some people who take it for granted.

 

we who have served have no interest in being 'worshiped', and i cant recall a time i have ever seen anything like you are describing. standing up a clapping for a soldier who got his limbs blown off by a land mine is hardly 'worship'.

 

a simple 'thanks' is all a vet really wants. 

[Larry]

While I agree that the military level of praise in this country at times gets out of hand, bordering on worship. That being said, I don't have an issue with a military theme in the nation's capital for a football team. Football and war/battle use a lot of the same language and symbolism.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmXacL0Uny0