Cowboys changing their defense because of us? What teams have we played in the 4-3 and in the 3-4?

[redskins4ever28]

Cowboys fired Ryan, hired Kiffin. ryan ran a 3-4, and Kiffin runs a 4-3/Tampa 2. Reading over Cowboyzone forums, theres a few posts over there that think the change is because the 2 games we had against them we exposed them through the air and the ground and they are saying that the read/option and pistol formations are not as effective against 4-3 defenses. So I ask you, what teams have we played this year in the 4-3 and what teams in the 3-4?

I will say this, Ware wont be nearly as effective in a 4-3 as he was in a 3-4.

[HeluCopter29]

I've got us at 6-6 v. 4-3 D's and 3-1 v. 3-4 D's.

IDK if I'd call that a good enough sample size to prove anything.

[ncr2h]

Median performance vs the 3/4:

16/26, 210 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT, 87.3 Rat, 7.4 YPA; 7 Rush attempts, 32 Yards, 0 TDs

Median performance vs the 4/3:

19/26, 206 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT, 101.9 Rat, 8.3 YPA,; 9 Rush attempts, 72 yards, 0 TDs

This basically reflected my general feeling, which was that the zone read is much less effective when there is an extra linebacker to account for - that's extra speed for the defense, more versatility, etc. Pittsburgh gave us some serious trouble this season (Baltimore and Dallas not so much). If Dallas is switching to a 4-3 due to us, they are probably making a mistake.

[Hitman21ST]

I've got us at 6-6 v. 4-3 D's and 3-1 v. 3-4 D's.

IDK if I'd call that a good enough sample size to prove anything.

That puts us at 9-7. You're one game off.

[orlskinsfan]

Monte Kiffin did a steller job at USC. NOT! Im not worried about this change.

[TSO]

I don't know if it's really about 4-3 versus a 3-4 defense... that would probably be over simplifying things if the Cowboys were making a decision like that for us.

That being said, Jerry Jones was emphatic about us being the team to beat in the NFC East and how they were going to make changes in the offseason to combat our offense after the last game of the season, so who knows?

We did completely nullify Ware though in their scheme. Without even blocking him, lol.

[emor09]

The only teams who really stopped us were Atlanta and Carolina. (Don't anyone dare say Pittsburgh, we beat ourselves with drops)

Both of those teams run 4-3, correct?

[Hitman21ST]

The only teams who really stopped us were Atlanta and Carolina. (Don't anyone dare say Pittsburgh, we beat ourselves with drops)

Both of those teams run 4-3, correct?

The odd thing is, in general the ZBS works better against 4-3 teams. The 3-4 causes more confusion in the blocking schemes.

[Popeman38]

The only teams who really stopped us were Atlanta and Carolina. (Don't anyone dare say Pittsburgh, we beat ourselves with drops)

Both of those teams run 4-3, correct?

Atlanta beat us because RG3 got knocked out and Cousins wasn't prepared. They picked him off twice. Carolina, RG3 had his worst day reading a D all season. He missed Moss and Robinson WIDE OPEN for 2 easy, long TDs. Robinson didn't have a DB within 15 yards. Moss was streaking down the sideline with no DB within 20 yards. The whole endzone section rose expecting TDs both times. He pulled the ball down and second guessed himself, resulting in short pass and scramble. He throws those 2 balls, we walk away from Carolina easily.

Also, the Giants and Eagles run a 4-3 and they were SOOOO successful shutting our O down.

[TSO]

The odd thing is, in general the ZBS works better against 4-3 teams. The 3-4 causes more confusion in the blocking schemes.

Yeah, in the end, we shouldn't worry either way. This offense has an answer for everything. The Giants had no answer for our offense both times we played them and they run a 4-3 as well.

[skinny21]

Yeah, in the end, we shouldn't worry either way. This offense has an answer for everything. The Giants had no answer for our offense both times we played them and they run a 4-3 as well.

Though the Giants held us under 20 both times, didn't they?

I was pretty surprised that Dallas gave up on Ryan so quickly missing so many key guys. Guess they needed a scapegoat and Wonderboy wasn't gonna be it. Maybe there was something else behind the scenes I didn't hear about.

I've got a lot of respect for Kiffin though I don't know much more about him than your average fan.

I'm less worried about the type of D we face than the personell. Carolina seemed to kill us because they got consistent penetration on our line.

[NIKKI8]

I was pretty happy to see Dallas hire Kiffin, I would have rather that they kept Ryan but I think although he was a great defensive coordinator at one time I don't think he still has it at his age now. I was worried that they might hire Lovie Smith because I think he would have put some motivation into that unit and made them alot better. Now I just hope Philadelphia hires Brian Billick and I will be happy with the coaching changes in the nfc east this offseason. I sure am glad the Redskins were not looking for a coach this year with the names that are out there. I can't believe David Shaw from Stanford didn't even get an interview.

[DeMarco Murray 29]

I was pretty happy to see Dallas hire Kiffin, I would have rather that they kept Ryan but I think although he was a great defensive coordinator at one time I don't think he still has it at his age now. I was worried that they might hire Lovie Smith because I think he would have put some motivation into that unit and made them alot better. Now I just hope Philadelphia hires Brian Billick and I will be happy with the coaching changes in the nfc east this offseason. I sure am glad the Redskins were not looking for a coach this year with the names that are out there. I can't believe David Shaw from Stanford didn't even get an interview.

Kiffin will do a great job here. Even if it's only for a few seasons. Word is, he is bringing Raheem Morris along (whose contract ends in Feb.)

Word also was, that Ryan missed tons of defensive meetings and didn't put in the work needed to put our defense over the top.

To me, it gets 2 guys off the field who could not rush the passer (Spears and Coleman) and lets us rush Ware, Ratliff, Hatcher and (hopefully) Spencer.

[elkabong82]

I don't think such was the motivation considering Kiffin's defenses struggled against the read option at USC.

[NoCalMike]

I don't think 4-3 vs. 3-4 is as much the difference as is bringing in a Coordinator you think can improve the defense regardless of scheme.

[TSO]

Though the Giants held us under 20 both times, didn't they?

I was pretty surprised that Dallas gave up on Ryan so quickly missing so many key guys. Guess they needed a scapegoat and Wonderboy wasn't gonna be it. Maybe there was something else behind the scenes I didn't hear about.

I've got a lot of respect for Kiffin though I don't know much more about him than your average fan.

I'm less worried about the type of D we face than the personell. Carolina seemed to kill us because they got consistent penetration on our line.

The first time I'm pretty sure we scored over 20, the second time it was only 17. But we could've reached 20 since we were in field goal range when we went into victory formation. Still, we did rack up a ton of yards against them in the first game. Turnovers killed us from scoring more. In the second game, we ran the ball a lot and they played very conservative defense which contributed to the lack of points. And I believe we had another turnover in that game that killed us if I'm not mistaken. Still, we were successful over all against them.

I think the Carolina game was just a bad outing from everyone. We all forgot after that game how we moved the ball well against them in general but just failed in the red zone. The Steelers loss simply lingered and Robert wasn't as accurate in that game as he normally is. Had we played Carolina after the bye week I think we would've destroyed them, honestly.

[Darth Tater]

Cowboys fired Ryan, hired Kiffin. ryan ran a 3-4, and Kiffin runs a 4-3/Tampa 2. Reading over Cowboyzone forums, theres a few posts over there that think the change is because the 2 games we had against them we exposed them through the air and the ground and they are saying that the read/option and pistol formations are not as effective against 4-3 defenses. So I ask you, what teams have we played this year in the 4-3 and what teams in the 3-4?

I will say this, Ware wont be nearly as effective in a 4-3 as he was in a 3-4.

Mike S wanted to go with a 3-4 because he had a harder against if.

[Boss_Hogg]

Saints 4-3 (win)

Rams 4-3 (loss)

Bengals 4-3 (loss)

Buccaneers 4-3 (win)

Falcons 4-3 (loss)

Vikings 4-3 (win)

Giants 4-3 (loss)

Steelers 3-4 (loss)

Panthers 4-3 (loss)

Eagles 4-3 (win)

Cowboys 3-4 (win)

Giants 4-3 (win)

Ravens 3-4 (win)

Browns 4-3 (win)

Eagles 4-3 (win)

Cowboys 3-4 (win)

The Reddkins' defense lost the Rams, Giants and Bengals games. The Skins actually played good offense against those three.

It's a push IMO, the East Coast pistol is hard to defend regardless of scheme.

[HighOnHendrix]

Mike S wanted to go with a 3-4 because he had a harder against if.

What?

[pjfootballer]

I think the Carolina game was just a bad outing from everyone. We all forgot after that game how we moved the ball well against them in general but just failed in the red zone. The Steelers loss simply lingered and Robert wasn't as accurate in that game as he normally is. Had we played Carolina after the bye week I think we would've destroyed them, honestly.

The team was exhausted. They had no life and prepared for the bye week a a week early. I agree with you, I think we beat the snot out of them if we play them after the bye week. And it was rough living here in Charlotte losing to those jokers for the 3rd consecutive time. We don't play them next year, but somehow I'd like another shot at them.

[bobbi3stix]

I really don't think it's so much the type of defense as much as it is the approach, discipline, athletic ability of the defense.

The only team that will stop this offense, is this offense. The reality is that we don't really have the greatest offensive line (play-calling clouds their deficiencies IMO), Garcon was out most of the year (or not 100%) and then to factor in the loss of Davis to top our rotation of WR's (which I would think detracts from any sort of cohesion between the QB/WR) have all added up to be more obstacles for this offense and at the end of it all, our drops killed us as much or more than our defense.

[P()rter]

Cowboys fired Ryan, hired Kiffin. ryan ran a 3-4, and Kiffin runs a 4-3/Tampa 2. Reading over Cowboyzone forums, theres a few posts over there that think the change is because the 2 games we had against them we exposed them through the air and the ground and they are saying that the read/option and pistol formations are not as effective against 4-3 defenses. So I ask you, what teams have we played this year in the 4-3 and what teams in the 3-4?

I will say this, Ware wont be nearly as effective in a 4-3 as he was in a 3-4.

Ware isn't effective against Washington anyway!!!

:dallasuck

[Darth Tater]

What?

Mike said that when he took over the team in explanation of why he wanted to go to a 3-4. Just repeating what our coach said a couple of years ago.

[Taylor 36]

Mike said that when he took over the team in explanation of why he wanted to go to a 3-4. Just repeating what our coach said a couple of years ago.

I'm pretty sure he asked "What?" because your first post was illegible. Not sure if you typed it from your phone or not, but it looks as if auto-correct killed your message.

[#BgMase76#]

Yeah, in the end, we shouldn't worry either way. This offense has an answer for everything. The Giants had no answer for our offense both times we played them and they run a 4-3 as well.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. The ZBS works best against 4-3s since you get everyone going in one direction. I like the zone read option against 3-4s. But regardless we're set up on offense to attack whatever the defense does.

---------- Post added January-16th-2013 at 11:02 AM ----------

Cowboys fired Ryan, hired Kiffin. ryan ran a 3-4, and Kiffin runs a 4-3/Tampa 2. Reading over Cowboyzone forums, theres a few posts over there that think the change is because the 2 games we had against them we exposed them through the air and the ground and they are saying that the read/option and pistol formations are not as effective against 4-3 defenses. So I ask you, what teams have we played this year in the 4-3 and what teams in the 3-4?

I will say this, Ware wont be nearly as effective in a 4-3 as he was in a 3-4.

Kiffin was an innovator w/ the Tampa 2 and no doubt a great defensive mind. But the Tampa 2 has been figured out and played out after their SB run. As good as Lee is he's no Derrick Brooks. Besides, Ware would need to put his hand in the dirt to be remotely effective. I'd love to see him in coverage as a LB.