Cowboys changing their defense because of us? What teams have we played in the 4-3 and in the 3-4?

[Boss_Hogg]

I wonder if Monte Kiffin has an answer for the Redskins' "College Crap?"

[Enter Apotheosis]

I wonder if Monte Kiffin has an answer for the Redskins' "College Crap?"

If he brings back the style of defense his teams used to play in his last NFL stint then the answer is a resounding 'no'. We'll see, though.

[cphil006]

I was pretty happy to see Dallas hire Kiffin, I would have rather that they kept Ryan but I think although he was a great defensive coordinator at one time I don't think he still has it at his age now. I was worried that they might hire Lovie Smith because I think he would have put some motivation into that unit and made them alot better. Now I just hope Philadelphia hires Brian Billick and I will be happy with the coaching changes in the nfc east this offseason. I sure am glad the Redskins were not looking for a coach this year with the names that are out there. I can't believe David Shaw from Stanford didn't even get an interview.

Dick LeBeau of Pittsburgh is doing pretty well in his age, although he had been there and established his system and philosophy. Monte Kiffin will start fresh with a team that is one my playoff drought year from starting over.

[emor09]

Monte Kiffin is probably like "Damn I have to face Chip Kelly TWICE now?!"

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

I thought we played better against 4-3s than against 3-4s and that's just from my eye test.

So I think this will help if anything

Thanks Dall-ASS

[PlayAction]

The Cowboys switch is only of interest if they let some good players go who don't fit their new scheme.

[HighOnHendrix]

Mike said that when he took over the team in explanation of why he wanted to go to a 3-4. Just repeating what our coach said a couple of years ago.

I'm pretty sure he asked "What?" because your first post was illegible. Not sure if you typed it from your phone or not, but it looks as if auto-correct killed your message.

That's exactly what it was, Taylor36. Thanks for explaining, Tater, I get the original meaning now.

[Renegade7]

The only teams who really stopped us were Atlanta and Carolina. (Don't anyone dare say Pittsburgh, we beat ourselves with drops)

Both of those teams run 4-3, correct?

And both of those game we were without Garcon and it showed. Seriously, 3-4, 4-3 it doesn't matter. You have to play disciplined football in order to keep from being embarrassed by the zone-read option. The cowboys are anything but disciplined.

If they do go to 4-3, it will be a mistake because of the time it will take to get the players to run it right. Spencer may easily walk, and people are still trying to figure out how Ware is going to fit in in all this (if at all). By the time they do get it right, they're going to need to have a replacement for Romo sits to pee, which could effectively be the closing of their "window". Not to mention Kiffin is 72 years old, so he won't be around that long.

But more power to them, by all means.

[Mania]

Atlanta beat us because RG3 got knocked out and Cousins wasn't prepared. They picked him off twice. Carolina, RG3 had his worst day reading a D all season. He missed Moss and Robinson WIDE OPEN for 2 easy, long TDs. Robinson didn't have a DB within 15 yards. Moss was streaking down the sideline with no DB within 20 yards. The whole endzone section rose expecting TDs both times. He pulled the ball down and second guessed himself, resulting in short pass and scramble. He throws those 2 balls, we walk away from Carolina easily.

Also, the Giants and Eagles run a 4-3 and they were SOOOO successful shutting our O down.

Its not that he missed moss and Robinson as much as it was the rib injury (none were broken) in the first quarter of the Carolina game that didn't allow him to make those throws. He was also high on many other throws in that game.

[bobbi3stix]

If they do go to 4-3, it will be a mistake because of the time it will take to get the players to run it right. Spencer may easily walk, and people are still trying to figure out how Ware is going to fit in in all this (if at all).

I'm going to preface this by telling you I am not by ANY means into the finer details of X'x & O's, so it's more of me asking/assuming.. Wouldn't the assignments of the front 7 be "less" in a 4-3 than a 3-4? Personnel being changed from a 3-4 is harder than vise versa presents a larger "learning curve" I would think?

[skinzwiz]

The Monty Kiffin hire was a head scratcher because he couldn't stop offenses like ours in college. I'm not worried about Kiffin's defense....I'm laughing at the Cowgirl organization.

[armada58]

This is tremendous!! Not only do we do better against 4-3 teams but Dallas doesn't have the personnel for a 4-3. I could not be a bigger fan of Jerry Jones! I hope he stays their GM for ever!

[Renegade7]

I'm going to preface this by telling you I am not by ANY means into the finer details of X'x & O's, so it's more of me asking/assuming.. Wouldn't the assignments of the front 7 be "less" in a 4-3 than a 3-4? Personnel being changed from a 3-4 is harder than vise versa presents a larger "learning curve" I would think?

You can make the case as 4-3 being less complex then a 3-4, but the two defenses require players with different body types to play OLB. 3-4 OLBs are basically 4-3 DEs that are fluid enough to move around in space. Ware and Spencer are to big too be asked to handle 4-3 OLB responsibilities (because now you're asking a DE to actually be a real Linebacker), so they'll most likely be asked to be 4-3 DEs. I feel like you'd be wasting Ware doing that, and Spencer knows he'll be more valuable on the open market as a 3-4 OLB being asked to cover along with runsupport and rushing the passer.

That's just my opinion...

[skinny21]

You can make the case as 4-3 being less complex then a 3-4, but the two defenses require players with different body types to play OLB. 3-4 OLBs are basically 4-3 DEs that are fluid enough to move around in space. Ware and Spencer are to big too be asked to handle 4-3 OLB responsibilities (because now you're asking a DE to actually be a real Linebacker), so they'll most likely be asked to be 4-3 DEs. I feel like you'd be wasting Ware doing that, and Spencer knows he'll be more valuable on the open market as a 3-4 OLB being asked to cover along with runsupport and rushing the passer.

That's just my opinion...

Maybe I missed an explanation for this earlier in the thread... but wouldn't switching Ware mean he's not dropping into coverage any more (not that he dropped into space all that often)? Isn't that a good thing for him?

[Renegade7]

Maybe I missed an explanation for this earlier in the thread... but wouldn't switching Ware mean he's not dropping into coverage any more (not that he dropped into space all that often)? Isn't that a good thing for him?

IDK, because I didn't feel he was that much of a liability in coverage. It wasn't like he was terrible at it from my point of view for a 3-4 OLB. Technically its better for him, because you're reducing his responsibilities and limiting the chance of him being targeted in the passing game. It's not going to be better for the boys if they lose Spencer because Dallas had only 34 sacks and Spencer had 11 of them. If Dallas goes to Tampa 2 then they won't be blitzing a lot, and asking D-Line to create a lot of the pressure. Losing Spencer will hurt...

[pjfootballer]

Per another thread in the ATN, Cowboys hire Rod Marinelli as their D-Line coach.

[chaos]

The Monty Kiffin hire was a head scratcher because he couldn't stop offenses like ours in college. I'm not worried about Kiffin's defense....I'm laughing at the Cowgirl organization.

My thought as well. This is why I love Jerry Jones.

So the team to beat in the division uses the zone-read...and with the Eagles' hiring of Chip Kelly, half of the division will play a zone-read offense in 2013. Naturally, Jerry goes and picks a guy who is notoriously HORRIBLE against the zone-read to run his defense. Makes sense.

[maskedsuperstar]

You can make the case as 4-3 being less complex then a 3-4, but the two defenses require players with different body types to play OLB. 3-4 OLBs are basically 4-3 DEs that are fluid enough to move around in space. Ware and Spencer are to big too be asked to handle 4-3 OLB responsibilities (because now you're asking a DE to actually be a real Linebacker), so they'll most likely be asked to be 4-3 DEs. I feel like you'd be wasting Ware doing that, and Spencer knows he'll be more valuable on the open market as a 3-4 OLB being asked to cover along with runsupport and rushing the passer.

That's just my opinion...

The Cowboys played an under front which forced the tackle to go one on one with Ware. The DL in their 3-4 scheme lined up in gaps. Spencer and Ware can put their hand in the dirt and rush the QB.

[KCClybun]

...So Jerry Jones fires Rob Ryan for not being able to stop the read option, and hires Monte Kiffin, who couldn't stop the read option and is 70+ years old. Meanwhile, they hire Rod Marenelli, a much better, younger coordinator...to be their d-line coach.

...Next season is going to be fun.

[maskedsuperstar]

I'm going to preface this by telling you I am not by ANY means into the finer details of X'x & O's, so it's more of me asking/assuming.. Wouldn't the assignments of the front 7 be "less" in a 4-3 than a 3-4? Personnel being changed from a 3-4 is harder than vise versa presents a larger "learning curve" I would think?

Not exactly. There are not a lot of colleges that run a 3-4 scheme. The 3-4 main purpose is to confuse the QB. In the 4-3 defense, the QB knows 4 rushers are coming. In 3-4 defense, the QB doesn't where the 4th rusher is coming from. The 3-4 is much harder to learn.

The Cowboys will use the Tampa 2 scheme. In this scheme, the DL will be undersized and very quick. This is where most of the pressure will come from. Its important that the LB's cover the middle of the field. The Cowboys don't have all the pieces yet.

---------- Post added January-18th-2013 at 08:41 PM ----------

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampa_Cover_2

[Laron Burgundy]

Not exactly. There are not a lot of colleges that run a 3-4 scheme. The 3-4 main purpose is to confuse the QB. In the 4-3 defense, the QB knows 4 rushers are coming. In 3-4 defense, the QB doesn't where the 4th rusher is coming from. The 3-4 is much harder to learn.

The Cowboys will use the Tampa 2 scheme. In this scheme, the DL will be undersized and very quick. This is where most of the pressure will come from. Its important that the LB's cover the middle of the field. The Cowboys don't have all the pieces yet.

---------- Post added January-18th-2013 at 08:41 PM ----------

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampa_Cover_2

I was under the understanding that the tampa 2 was fading out in the nfl due to teams being able to run all over it. Smaller d-line with smaller linebackers to play coverage works great against the pass, but not so great when a team just wants to run at you. With being in a run-heavy division, the change just doesn't make sense. We all have top 16 rush offenses and I expect Philly to be better next year with better health on their o-line and rb, and same with giants, who had an ailing bradshaw (though they really can never expect him to be healthy). Perhaps their speed will match up well against what Philly does, but Morris and our o-line will have a field day against an overall smaller defense.

[bobbi3stix]

Thanks for the insight and explanations, I learned me something!

[Master Blaster]

Kiffin will do a great job here. Even if it's only for a few seasons. Word is, he is bringing Raheem Morris along (whose contract ends in Feb.)

Word also was, that Ryan missed tons of defensive meetings and didn't put in the work needed to put our defense over the top.

To me, it gets 2 guys off the field who could not rush the passer (Spears and Coleman) and lets us rush Ware, Ratliff, Hatcher and (hopefully) Spencer.

Did you forget to take your meds?

[maskedsuperstar]

I was under the understanding that the tampa 2 was fading out in the nfl due to teams being able to run all over it. Smaller d-line with smaller linebackers to play coverage works great against the pass, but not so great when a team just wants to run at you. With being in a run-heavy division, the change just doesn't make sense. We all have top 16 rush offenses and I expect Philly to be better next year with better health on their o-line and rb, and same with giants, who had an ailing bradshaw (though they really can never expect him to be healthy). Perhaps their speed will match up well against what Philly does, but Morris and our o-line will have a field day against an overall smaller defense.

Well, this is why Jerry Jones needs to do what Synder did. Sit down!! The Tampa 2 eliminates the big play. But I totally agree with you. The smaller DL will have no chance. With RG3 abiltiy too hide the football, no contest.

Jerry Jones had to point the finger at somebody. He should have started with himself. Oh well, not our problem. I think he will figure it out next season, when the Skins rush for 400 yds. on his defense.