andyburd Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Love him, you are nut's expecting a 4-3 DE to do it all in a truly horrible depleted defense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I agree. Kerrigan and Orakpo would both be much more effective as 4-3 defensive ends. I'm pretty much done with the 3-4. I wish we would have at least tried them in the positions in which we clearly became so enamored with them, in the first place. Instead we make them lose weight, and learn pass coverage. I don't know a single fan that was ever looking forward to either in pass coverage. A problem with the 3-4, not many colleges run it, so you have to change players you draft. Which is risky. Kerrigan is doing fine but he is still relatively new to his position. The benefit of the 3-4, teams dont know who we will blitz. But with us, they do, its Kerrigan! Surprise. Coupled with no creativity, stunts etc, rarely an effective blitz scheme, no push up the gut, Carlos cushions, Kerrigan is not getting much help. He may be the only player teams have to game plan for. Kerrigan has more potential than most of our guys on our defense. And lord knows, provides our most consistent pressure. And big plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Love him, you are nut's expecting a 4-3 DE to do it all in a truly horrible depleted defense Who are you referring to? James Harrison? DeMarcus Ware? Dwight Freeney? Brian Orakpo? Ryan Kerrigan? Robert Mathis? Tamba Hali? They are all 4-3 DEs, too. Coincidentally, they're all also 3-4 OLBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CjSuAvE22 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Someone needs to start a thread to educate people on the basic principals of a 3-4 defense if we actually have people on here complaining about Kerrigans presence on defense.... FACE IT FOLKS CARRIKER WAS A HUGE LOSS and JENKINS IS CLEARLY NOT ON HIS LEVEL......dont sit there and blame one of the best players on this defense atm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGSKINS Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Yes I'm happy with him. Sophomore slump and he has no help. Stay the course we will be ok. Hang in there skins fan. Season aint over yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sens11 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Scheme is a big part of what 91 is dealing this year. Have any of you noticed how much he is actually dropping in coverage?? He is being forced to learn to play in space. He has actually improved this facet of his game while trying be impactful in the pressure game. Kerrigan is a true "core" Skin. Love what he brings to this team. Best is yet to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 They're just two numbers really close together and it's not that big a deal which one is on which side of some hyphen. And where you put them does't change anybody's size anyway. I'm no math guy and am not sure if there's four or five in a nickel, but size and speed is more genetics and conditioning and nutrition stuff. Hyphens and simple numbers that close together are not some big deal. What's the topic? Anyway, I don't agree (every time). So in summary 3+4=7 and 4+3=7 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 So in summary 3+4=7 and 4+3=7 ? I think what you're looking for is "14." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoudMouth12thMan Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Absolutely! He's our best player on defense and does his job week in and week out. Just because the scheme (at least as it has been since the injuries) doesn't fit his game doesn't mean he's not getting it done. I think the lack of sacks comes from how they're using him. Someone already mentioned this, but I agree that you can't just rush 3 or 4 on passing downs almost all game long and expect to get consistent pressure. That's what we've been doing lately and clearly it's making everyone on the defense look bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 The other problem is Kerrigan is experiencing what Orakpo went through in 2010, which was he would rush, and anytime he'd win, the QB would just slip away. It's not hard for a QB to get away from one guy, especially for QBs like Big Ben, who, with his size, has no business being as mobile as he is. Or you get something like the Giants game, where every play was a hold, and not just your average "they could call holding every play" hold, but a "if this wasn't football it'd be assault and battery" hold. I also think the defense as a whole just didn't have the heart to play last week. They seemed demoralized and defeated. I think that's something that can be fixed, but it's definitely a problem, and might be contributing. Kerrigan is still playing well regardless, but he's being asked to do so much, and yet week after week all he's hearing is how much the defense sucks. My hope is come out strong this week, because a solid performance this week could re-energize them going into the bye week and carry us through the rest of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustangSteve Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I sure am, the mans done scored 2 TD's at a position he's adjusting to. Him and Orakpo are pass rush specialist, not LB's or DB's that should be chasing TE's and WR's around the field. Any good defensive coach would have kept this 4-3 defense that was a top 10 before either showed up, and made it a beast of a defense with them doing what they do best, attacking QB's! Yes I put more blame on Haslett because he is the man responsible for breaking something that was working fine. All we needed was to be more aggressive and we would have been if we kept Defensive ends who were tearing QB's up at the position they are best at. Defensive ends and pass rush specialist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Hammer Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Not unhappy with him by any means. But I think the OP raises a point that we've seen more and more since Orakpo is out. And that is many have seriously over hyped Ryan into an elite OLB. He may become that over time, and he's certainly a talented, consistent player. But he's far from elite. Hail. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlinginSammy HOF '63 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Turn this thread into a poll and you'll see how many people disagree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emor09 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Absence makes the heart grow fonder. I love Orakpo, but let's not make him out to be better than he was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Absence makes the heart grow fonder. I love Orakpo, but let's not make him out to be better than he was. I thought Orakpo was overrated until the last 4 games. This defense went out the window when he got hurt. I mean literally when he got hurt. As in the following play from scrimmage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Team Ever Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Um yes. He's a a key piece to our future. A stud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsfan4life83 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Absence makes the heart grow fonder. I love Orakpo, but let's not make him out to be better than he was. If the last four games don't convince you how good he really is and how much he means for our pass rush then I don't know what to tell you. Rak IS OUR PASS RUSH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 If the last four games don't convince you how good he really is and how much he means for our pass rush then I don't know what to tell you. Rak IS OUR PASS RUSH. To back this up, it's worth noting that in the past 5 games, we've only had 1 game with more than one sack, Minnesota, when we managed 4 against Ponder, who's still going through growing pains. We're on pace for 28 sacks, which last year would have us tied for 31st in the NFL. The bad news is our average is lower once we take out the Saints game (the only game where Orakpo and Carriker were still in) dropping us to just above 27 sacks. The worse news is that the Minnesota game was most likely an outlier. Unless we get another 3 or 4 sack day in, we aren't likely to even hit 27 or 28. Basically, we're likely to end up around 25 sacks, which is an abysmal drop off. So.....yeah. Orakpo and Carriker were kind of a big deal. Like 15 sacks worth of a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
U C S D SkinsFan Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Kerrigan is our best defensive player playing right now, I'm very happy we have him...we miss Orakpo dearly. People just look at the sack #s for productivity and with Orakpo it's not the case. Like many have mentioned in this thread, he opens the defense up and commands attention. I was so excited to see Kerrigan and Orakpo in year 2 together...sucks he got hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 As much as I love Kerrigan, I'd rather have JJ Watt at this point in their careers. Our defense is missing a stud, an absolute monster teams have to gameplan for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 This. 3. Spam is strictly prohibited. The following are some examples of what ES considers spam: Very short posts that do not add value to the topic. Example: posts with only the words, "I dunno," or "lol cool," or "in before close" or a quote of a post with only "smileys" added, or simply the word "this" and an upward arrow or "x2" added. If that is the only contribution you have to make to the discussion, this is not the place for you. Typically, this is a one week ban. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakinaiken Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Most 3-4 OLBs in the NFL were 4-3 DEs in college... Why point out that he was a converted DE? (So was Rak) ---------- Post added October-30th-2012 at 05:58 PM ---------- You realize that a 3-4 DE is a large mammal, right? And it's typically a guy who can play a 3-technique in a 4-3 defense? JJ Watt is 6-6 295 lbs. Stephen Bowen 6-5 304 lbs Adam Carriker 6-6 311 lbs Darnell Dockett 6-4 285 lbs Justin Smith 6-4 285 lbs Ryan Kerrigan 6-4 267 lbs One of those things is not like the others. I don't know why everyone assumes a defensive end is a defensive end. It's not the case. A 3-4 end is a lot bigger and stronger than a 4-3 end. It's JJ Watt vs. Dwight Freeney. Freeney is a lot smaller (6-1 270). And Freeney is playing OLB for the Colts now under Pagano. A 4-3 DE IS a 3-4 OLB except with more responsibilities in coverage. a 3-4 DE is more like a 4-3 UT than a 4-3 DE. I do realize that, thank you. I stand by what I said- Kerrigan should be converted to a 3-4 end, instead of an outside linebacker. converted implies change in some capacity, and in this regard, Kerrigan would have to gain some weight. He's simply not athletic enough to rush standing up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGoonie55 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 As much as I love Kerrigan, I'd rather have JJ Watt at this point in their careers. Our defense is missing a stud, an absolute monster teams have to gameplan for. Okay, we get a straight across the board trade and then what? Watt gets double teamed / is ineffective because the other side of the line is porous? We are no better off with him than we are with Kerrigan. This kid is amazing considering he's being neutered in a benign system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakinaiken Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Ha. Funny.No, because I pretty much expect anyone who's not performing like a top ten talent eventually gets one of this wrongheaded threads once in a while. It's already happened with Rak, it was only a matter of time before Kerrigan became the latest victim of the "He's good, but I don't think he'll ever be elite" bull**** train that usually happens after losses. relax, people are giving you their opinions on a message board. when a defense performs so horribly, no player is above criticism and that includes Kerrigan. I myself believe he isn't athletic enough to play OLB I'm 3-4 scheme. many will disagree with me- you included Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Okay, we get a straight across the board trade and then what? Watt gets double teamed / is ineffective because the other side of the line is porous? We are no better off with him than we are with Kerrigan.This kid is amazing considering he's being neutered in a benign system. I'm mostly considering the fact we traded away a pick that could have netted us Watt for Kerrigan and Jarvis Jenkins. Watt has been double teamed, and sometimes triple teamed, and he's still playing exceptional football. We could use a guy like him, and Kerrigan/Jenkins aren't proving to be a comparable impact to our defense as a JJ Watt would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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