Why we can't compete until 2014 at the earliest. Maybe 2015. All through little fault of our own.

[DogofWar1]

While we're hurting on money and picks next year, we still have some opportunity to improve.

Give Hall an ultimatum, accept 4-5M instead of the 9+M he's due and move to FS, or leave. His salary alone would pay for a top FA acquisition. Have Moss take a pay cut, and toss Brown to minimize his cap impact. With those moves we'll have a little wiggle room to add FAs. I'd like DRC for CB, but Talib, if we feel he's worth the risk and the price, could be good too, and maybe another young player with some upside at around 3-4M a year. RTs and Ss can be found in the 2nd and 3rd. They might not be great, but I'd feel confident in saying that Aboushi would be an immediate upgrade over Polumbus, and that pretty much any of the top 6 safeties would be an upgrade over our current starters (with maybe the exception of Meriweather if he comes back strong somehow).

While we do have to do some cap gymnastics, it's not impossible to go from very poor on defense to middle of the road. If we can drag our way into the teens in overall defense next year, and our offense stays productive, we would have a very good chance of being solidly in playoff contention next year. A lot of things have to go right, but it's far from impossible.

In 2014 we should be in the mix from the get-go, and by 2015 we should be in the discussion as SB contenders from the start.

[Bigmuss1]

There really isn't any reason we can't draft our way out of this predicament. 2nd thru 4th round picks in the secondary can play right away in the NFL. One pick up in FA and we have to be at the very least better than the garbage we all have been witnessing. And let's be honest, it's mostly all Madieu Williams, the mistakes he committing is crushing our team. It makes it look like other players are at fault, but the reality of it all points to Williams. Better safety play can help our corners out, he is destroying the concept of our D. Just watch Cruz's TD, it's all Williams. Wilson was correct by being underneath because he knew he had over the top help. Well, assuming his teammate was going to perform his job, screwed Wilson.

We are competing now, we are and will be in probably every game we play this year, whether/or when our D breaks our hearts will we all have to wait and unfortunately suffer through.

Today def sucked, but not turning the ball over 4 times and we beat them soundly. Or a phantom leg whip penalty.

I guess my point is we can compete this year for a playoff spot, add a few more pieces and no regression in our O next year, we will be very hard to deal with.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

It's hard to argue that the team is not in a better place then 90% of other teams that draft a rookie QB and start him from day 1.

Cam's huge stats from 2011 are largely due to his team being down big late in games and he compiled all sorts of stats in garbage time, while his team had no real chance to win most of the time.

The Redskins have been in every game, and most games the offense is in a position to tie or win the game late. Today you saw RGIII buckle down and lead the time on a game leading drive at the end of the game, but the defense could not seal the deal. How this equals Mike or Kyle Shanahan to being fired is puzzling to me.

Right now this entire offense is clicking, the running game, the zone blocking scheme etc etc....and keep in mind this is without their best WR, and a large part of the game was played without Fred Davis, who unfortunately is gone for the season.

The defense lacks starting caliber talent. Bottomline. Now compare this with a team like Dallas who has had an overload of talent on defense for a handful of years now but can't manage to do any better than us, and you have a much better argument for changing the coaching regime.

We can't give up on a system that is working, just because we aren't winning every single game.

Why do people think we can fire the coaching staff, and start over with brand new schemes and designs, yet all of the sudden get good?

nobody is advocating firing Shanny

GHH is saying that we have nothing around RGIII at the moment and our outlook of changing that is bleak. I don't agree so I countered by saying "then Shanahan should be fired if that is the case after 3 years and we can't compete for another 3"

NO ONE IS ADVOCATING THE FIRING OF MICHAEL SHANAHAN IN THIS THREAD lol

[elkabong82]

A safety early in next year's draft and a halfway decent D-Coord. who can actually create pressure and we have at least a middle-of-the-pack defense and can compete. Plus with our offense we are competitive this year.

Sure we are limited in FA next year, but we don't need to bring in a bunch of top FAs, in fact, doing so in the past as hurt us.

We are 3-4, and with better safeties (we get Merriweather back eventually) we beat the Giants. We are already competing. The sky is not falling. We can be a playoff team sooner than you think.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

nobody is advocating firing Shanny

GHH is saying that we have nothing around RGIII at the moment and our outlook of changing that is bleak. I don't agree so I countered by saying "then Shanahan should be fired if that is the case after 3 years and we can't compete for another 3"

NO ONE IS ADVOCATING THE FIRING OF MICHAEL SHANAHAN IN THIS THREAD lol

No defense to compliment RGIII and the O. And no chance next year of improving it to any significant degree thanks to the cap penalty, and lack of significant picks with still high picks needed in other areas.

Hail.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

No defense to compliment RGIII and the O. And no chance next year of improving it to any significant degree thanks to the cap penalty, and lack of significant picks with still high picks needed in other areas.

Hail.

I guess the only thing I disagree with is the insistence that there is "no chance" of improving the defense between now and September of 2013.

[elkabong82]

No defense to compliment RGIII and the O. And no chance next year of improving it to any significant degree thanks to the cap penalty, and lack of significant picks with still high picks needed in other areas.

Hail.

Carriker and Orakpo coming back, Jenkins improving, Riley improving, Crawford improving, Merriweather coming back healthy, Tanard Jackson coming back, maybe a new D-Cpord., Minnifield giving it another go, and we have our 2nd rounder potentially for a safety. Your assumption that limited cap space means little to no chance for defensive improvement is flawed IMO. This team has been able to improve through smart, non-blockbuster FA acquisitions as well as good later round picks, yet you're ignoring that.

You also ignore the potential of the offense to be even greater next year, and make up for a porous D much like the Saints do.

[SJValleySkinz]

Major talent is routinely found outside of round 1 in the NFL draft. All it comes down to is scouting, scouting and more scouting. The consistantly good teams can do this, which is why saying the draft is a crapshoot is a great big pile of hooey.

[Renegade7]

Posted this in another thread about sort of the same topic. Article shows how we can get our money right to make a move this offseason to get a head start on 2014:

http://www.redskinshogheaven.com/2012-articles/may/a-quick-look-at-the-redskins-in-2013without-yknow-18-million-in-cap-space.html

[DogofWar1]

A modern day player that put's the chance of success over getting paid.

Does such a person exist in 2012?

Hail.

Not in FA they don't. No one is going to give us any RGIII discount, I think AzSkinsFan63 is off a little there.

That being said, if we and another team are offering some top player the same deal, having RGIII might help win tiebreakers. I mean, let's say the Cowboys and Skins are competing for someone in 2014. Who is more likely to be a contender, us with RGIII or the Cowboys, either with Romo sits to pee on the downswing or some young developing QB? Hopefully us.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Carriker and Orakpo coming back, Jenkins improving, Riley improving, Crawford improving, Merriweather coming back healthy, Tanard Jackson coming back, maybe a new D-Cpord., Minnifield giving it another go, and we have our 2nd rounder potentially for a safety. Your assumption that limited cap space means little to no chance for defensive improvement is flawed IMO. This team has been able to improve through smart, non-blockbuster FA acquisitions as well as good later round picks, yet you're ignoring that.

You also ignore the potential of the offense to be even greater next year, and make up for a porous D much like the Saints do.

Heck of a lot of 'if's' there man.

And a heck of a lot of things that would all have to align and roll in our favour.

Hail.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

GHH- I agree with most of your posts on here and you are a very rational, level headed fan but I really disagree with this.

I understand the sentiment and you are correct in your reasoning but I don't think you are seeing the whole picture.

We are competing now. The defense has honestly improved the last few weeks. Look at New Orleans 2009 or Green Bay 2010 and 2011. You can win it all and win at a high consistent level without the 2001 Ravens defense or even the Texans defense this year. We have the pieces in place to have an aggressive, pressure/turnover oriented defense, which is all you need to compete in today's NFL assuming you have a good offense. Which, Btw...

We have a highly explosive offense that is only going to get better every year. We havent even had our best outside and deep ball weapon Garçon but for about 6 quarters all year. Morris should continue to improve and we don't even know what we have in the young OL drafted this year yet. obviously, RG3 is amazing and playing at an All Pro level right now.

I readily acknowledge that is is going to be a tough hill to climb and we will have to be very smart regarding our cap situation over the next 2 years but we can keep the current team together with little changes.

With a better DC the Defense can be improved quite dramatically with little changes to personnel too. Hopefully we can make that change in the offseason.

I also still think we can win the division this year.

[SkinFaninOKC]

The OP is being a little dramatic. I thought the team was in a rebuilding phase. Sure we traded first round picks but we had to. Next years draft may produce a good puzzle piece. I will just enjoy the RG III express for now.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I guess the only thing I disagree with is the insistence that there is "no chance" of improving the defense between now and September of 2013.

Add 'to any significant' degree and that would be my take in the main.

---------- Post added October-21st-2012 at 07:49 PM ----------

..... I also still think we can win the division this year.

Thanks for the props man. I guess the only definitive answer to the 'are we competing to any great degree or not' (division/ post-season play); will be gotten at the years end.

FWIW, I hope your far more right in your feeling on that than I man.

Hail.

[skinsfan07]

The story of the Redskins. Excuses, excuses and more excuses.

Is this thread even made if Moss don't fumble late AGAIN? Or if we don't have a meltdown late in the Rams game?

If Moss doesn't fumble who knows if we win or not? Blame the D, not Moss. All we needed was 1 series stop and the game was over.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

GHH, what would you consider a significant degree? We just gave up a 80 yard TD in the final 80 seconds of a game while we should have been making sure nothing got behind us. I believe that if we can simply eliminate playing Pee Wee level defense, we can win most of our games. Shouldn't the addition of a couple DBs give us that chance?

[GoSkins1973]

I pray that Haslett is axed. If this was going on with offense heads would roll by now.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I pray that Haslett is axed. If this was going on with offense heads would roll by now.

You believe that Shanahan would have fired his son by now? Interesting.

[DieselPwr44]

I believe that if we can simply eliminate playing Pee Wee level defense, we can win most of our games. Shouldn't the addition of a couple DBs give us that chance?

Nahh...not a chance. It's over...burn it down.

Geez Louise :doh:

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

GHH, what would you consider a significant degree? We just gave up a 80 yard TD in the final 80 seconds of a game while we should have been making sure nothing got behind us. I believe that if we can simply eliminate playing Pee Wee level defense, we can win most of our games. Shouldn't the addition of a couple DBs give us that chance?

You should never answer a question with a question, but I'ma be a rebel and do just that. :pfft:

Do you consider our secondary, with the addition of a couple of players, that at best, as we currently stand, would be a 2nd rounder and a lower end pick/ lower to mid-tier FA; to be of any significant standard to compete in this pass happy league?

Regardless of scheme, do you think the talent within the above would be there?

---------- Post added October-21st-2012 at 08:04 PM ----------

Nahh...not a chance. It's over...burn it down.

Geez Louise :doh:

What is anyone burning down again?

Hail.

[SuperBash]

The sad thing is, if we didn't allow that bomb at the end of the game and we stopped them, we'd be pretty pumped about our D's performance for the most part. We would have went into the defending SB Champ's house and held them to 20 points, while winning. But one play changed the tune of this board into freak out mode.

[Voice_of_Reason]

I take a slightly different approach: I think the D can actually be middle of the pack next year. And the Offense won't need to it to be any better. There are 2 assumptions:

1. Orakpo comes back and is healthy and ready to go.

2. There is a new defensive coordinator for the 3-4 that has a better handle on how to both coach and call plays. I'm not a Haslett hater, but the types of things that we're seeing late in games shows that he just doesn't get it.

Now, every now and then every defense will give up a big play to end the game. The "model" of the 'Skins defense is the Pittsburgh Steelers. Look what happened to them at the end of the playoff game in Denver last year. It happens.

But, here, it happens routinely. I think that in general, this group of players can be decent. But they are not getting the coaching, preparation, or game calling to be succesfull. I can pretty much gaurentee if Wade Phillips or either Ryan brother was coordinating this defense, they'd be better. Don't like any of them as a HC, but as coordinators, they'd all be significant upgrades.

So, I don't think that it's going to be 2015 before they can compete. They only have one more year of cap hell, and they can be a middle of the road defense without a #1 next year. The cap money hurts, but they can get it done and be decent. They don't have to be the '85 bears. Make teams score slowly, hold teams to FGs, give up 20-24 points a game. This team will win 10 games easy. They just can't give up 30+ points per game, and huge, explosive plays at the end of games. Can't do it.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

You should never answer a question with a question, but I'ma be a rebel and do just that. :pfft:

Do you consider our secondary, with the addition of a couple of players, that at best, as we currently stand, would be a 2nd rounder and a lower end pick/ lower to mid-tier FA; to be of any significant standard to compete in this pass happy league?

Regardless of scheme, do you think the talent within the above would be there?

Hail.

We've won 3 of 7 games with some of the most deplorable secondary play I've seen in a long time. So I believe any level of improving the personnel in the secondary would increase our chances of winning games with the weapons we have on offense.

So, I guess I'm saying "yes" to answer your question. I believe that improving your team in areas of weaknesses gives you a better shot. I also am confident that you don't have to use first round picks or millions of FA dollars to improve this group. This secondary could improve with modest additions, health, and improvement of current depth.

[Bishop Hammer]

Great points - I hate Mara and his puppet for doing this to us.

Yeah, I rate Mara above Jerry Jones as public enemy number one. Can't wait for the team's rematch at home.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

Let me preface this by saying I love this long lost feeling of excitement come Sunday that my team is giving me once again. In the main, all down to a dude who far from looking the fresh faced rookie he should; look's more and more like a HoF, all American/ pro 15 year top tier veteran by the game. And I wouldn't take back 'the trade' if my life depended on it. I love the overall direction the HC is taking this team in. With those two men orchestrating things on and off the field, I have NO doubt we WILL return to the promised land.

But thanks to 'the trade'; and more so the man who's team we so agonisingly managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory today; it's gona' be at least another two years before we can even compete for post-season play. Let alone think about reaching the top of the mountain for a 4th time.

Now people will look at that, and doubtless start to question whether Coach Mike should be given that time if it's gona' be at least another two long years of regular season play and nothing else. In the same way the defense is getting lambasted tonight from all angles after throwing away a game we had won.

But let's put the reality of the situation, not least the defense, in stark black and white figures. And ask yourself, with everything else to still to attend to; just what Shanahan and co. can realistically be expected to do with one hand tied behind their backs?

It's no secret, as witnessed again today, we have a shocking defensive secondary. We need two starting, quality safety's, neither of which are currently on staff; and one if not two top tier corners. (Hopefully Minifield turns into something, but he's undrafted and coming off an ACL. So let's not pin too much on his young shoulders.). Throw in the captain and mainstay of the defense, Fletch, is coming to the end of his glorious career and needs replacing (maybe Robinson becomes that guy, maybe not. But he and Riley are not gona' strike any immediate fear into opponents next year), along with depth help; and even Stevie Wonder can see where the teams main problem lies.

Addressing it however, is easier said than done.

With no number 1 draft pick for the next two years, a serious need for a quality right tackle on the offensive side of the ball to compliment Trent; and another $ 18 million lost through that B/S cap penalty next year; we are up the metaphoric ' **** creek without a paddle ' until the 2014 season at least.

As we currently stand, with next years cap projected to be around $ 121 million, and taking into account the dead cap carry over minus the Cooley and doubtless at least Brown release hit, along with the $ 18 million penalty; we are marginally under the cap by around 3 million bucks or so. There's gona' have to be some serious restructuring to allow us to go forward with next years rooks and any cheap additions we can swing. Forget doing anything in FA to address the problem. And then you've players like Santana sat on a $ 6 million hit next year, and Merriweather at $ 3.5 who probably won't be here through age/ value. All of whom, along with others, will need to be replaced with bodies.

So scream as loud as you want about this player or that coach, or it being 'the same old Redskins save for RGIII' ; but ask yourself in the stark reality of the situation just what they can realistically be expected to do with one hand tied behind their back thanks to the cap B/S and the lack of top picks that had to spent on the once in a lifetime kid under center.

The progress we're seeing is great. Particularly on the offensive side of the ball. But the progress for the remainder of this year and next at least is gona' slow through little fault of our own.

Hail.

its clear Shanahan knows how to get good players later in the draft. WE can rebuild that secondary with smart moves in FA and good draft picks.

What probably killed us this summer was the salary cap debacle.