Momma There Goes That Man Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 You are making my point I am not saying that we have to get all-stars at every position but if you were to rank the players themselves at there positions we would not have one of our players in the top 5 in our own division at there position all 4 would be at the bottom I would take Hall and Wilson over everybody except Carr, Claiborne and DRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 No. 13 mil in net savings in 2013. No cost in 2014. No dead cap charges? From cutting players to dump contracts? Huh, far from a cap expert, but I thought that penalty was par for the course. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 This is Wilson's second year here. We had Rogers before that and yes we had a respectable def but not above avg for that matter. We have not had a top 5 defense in 4 years and none under Haslett.---------- Post added October-21st-2012 at 09:43 PM ---------- Well I disagree with you there, Everyone of those teams has at least 1 star in the making or already top 10 in there position. Just at CB I would not take Hall or Wilson over none of those CB's DRC,Ndambi, Amukamara, Webster, Carr or Claiborne. All of them are better than both our corners Yeah...they are better than our secondary. no **** 1) Phi- Nmandi has underachieved throughly as has DRC in Philly. DRC was never elite in ARZ and Nnamdi is not elite anymore. Are they decent? yes. Their safeties both suck...ask any of their fans. 2) No one on the Giants is close to elite. They are average though. 3) Dallas - Carr was the best CB available in FA soon everyone just anointed him a stud. Claiborne is an effing rookie and Sensabaugh has ALWAYS been awful. My point was they are mostly average so they don't completely hold down their teams like ours does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 ..... Whatever your point is about a top-5 D, we don't need anything approaching that to compete with this offense. Do you not think that eventually catches up with you though over time though? You come up against teams that can limit your O, or you just have an off day; then your relying on help from a D that isn't there. I mean you can get by like that in extreme circumstances, but in the main it only carries you so far. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 No dead cap charges? From cutting players to dump contracts? Huh, far from a cap expert, but I thought that penalty was par for the course. Hail. Hall, for example, is scheduled to count 8.3 mi against the cap in 2013. 300K dead cap charge. So a net savings of 8 mil. Saying it would cost us a penalty of 0.3 mil to cut him is just the wrong way to look at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banjo Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 The Redskins might not "compete", but at least they're fun to watch. RG3 exceeds the hype. Best player in the NFC East already? I'd say so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 No dead cap charges? From cutting players to dump contracts? Huh, far from a cap expert, but I thought that penalty was par for the course. Hail. There would still be a hit for the remaining amount of bonus money owed on their contracts. I am not sure what that is though but we aren't walking away from them all scott free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 Hall, for example, is scheduled to count 8.3 mi against the cap in 2013. 300K dead cap charge. So a net savings of 8 mil. Saying it would cost us a penalty of 0.3 mil to cut him is just the wrong way to look at that. So small? Interesting. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Yeah...they are better than our secondary. no ****1) Phi- Nmandi has underachieved throughly as has DRC in Philly. DRC was never elite in ARZ and Nnamdi is not elite anymore. Are they decent? yes. Their safeties both suck...ask any of their fans. 2) No one on the Giants is close to elite. They are average though. 3) Dallas - Carr was the best CB available in FA soon everyone just anointed him a stud. Claiborne is an effing rookie and Sensabaugh has ALWAYS been awful. My point was they are mostly average so they don't completely hold down their teams like ours does Exactly, they are not special, though I do like what Dallas did and I think their two DBs have a lot of potential though I don't think we are that far off. I really think alot of it is simply the coaching. We do need better safeties, thats a given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dckey Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 We were 13th in total defense last year giving up 75 fewer yards and 6 fewer points than we are this year. Wilson was a starting CB last year. If we were in the top half of the league in defense this year, we would have won a couple more games so far.Whatever your point is about a top-5 D, we don't need anything approaching that to compete with this offense. I look at Defense differently than you do, I do the rankings on PPG allowed, becasue I don't care how many yards we give up it's about how many points we give up. We were ranked 22nd in PPG Allowed 27th this year and 21st 2010, 18th 2009. We were 6th in 2008. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Do you not think that eventually catches up with you though over time though? You come up against teams that can limit your O, or you just have an off day; then your relying on help from a D that isn't there. I mean you can get by like that in extreme circumstances, but in the main it only carries you so far. Hail. I don't understand your question. We should absolutely strive to make every facet of our team as strong as possible. I am not contending that we plan to win with a good offense and porous defense. However I believe we can begin to contend before we have a top-5 defense. Very few good teams are top-5 on both sides of the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dckey Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Yeah...they are better than our secondary. no ****1) Phi- Nmandi has underachieved throughly as has DRC in Philly. DRC was never elite in ARZ and Nnamdi is not elite anymore. Are they decent? yes. Their safeties both suck...ask any of their fans. 2) No one on the Giants is close to elite. They are average though. 3) Dallas - Carr was the best CB available in FA soon everyone just anointed him a stud. Claiborne is an effing rookie and Sensabaugh has ALWAYS been awful. My point was they are mostly average so they don't completely hold down their teams like ours does They are still better than ours, u are missing my point if you have 8 total players starting at that position and our players are the 7th and 8th player at all 4 positions 2CB, FS, SS that is not good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I think we should all start actively rooting for the Redskins to lose the rest of our games to ensure we get a really high second round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky52Mc Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Actually we're in every game. If a few crazy things switch around we could have a winning record. That being said we could have a worse record. You take wins when you can get them, they're not easy. But the Redskins are NOT years away from competing, they're 7 days away from competing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I look at Defense differently than you do, I do the rankings on PPG allowed, becasue I don't care how many yards we give up it's about how many points we give up. We were ranked 22nd in PPG Allowed 27th this year and 21st 2010, 18th 2009. We were 6th in 2008. That's fair...I think both ways are flawed and would love a better defensive metric to use. Be that as it may, if our defense in 2012 was giving up 6 fewer points per game (as they were last year), we would be 5-2 right now. In short, we would have a defense good enough to compete even if not perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 I don't understand your question. We should absolutely strive to make every facet of our team as strong as possible. I am not contending that we plan to win with a good offense and porous defense. However I believe we can begin to contend before we have a top-5 defense. Very few good teams are top-5 on both sides of the ball. My point was that all be the most extreme of circumstances, like Indy under Mannings genius, everything coming together for the Saints and Packers in recent years; an O outscoring what the D gives up will only take you so far before it eventually catches up with you. Maybe we're developing that kind of top notch offensive with Robert at the helm. But it's still a risky path to think you'll have consistent success with a so-so D whilst putting all your eggs in one basket on your O game-on-game. ---------- Post added October-21st-2012 at 09:03 PM ---------- I think we should all start actively rooting for the Redskins to lose the rest of our games to ensure we get a really high second round pick. You were funnier when you weren't trying to be in missing the point on that last year H. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I think we should all start actively rooting for the Redskins to lose the rest of our games to ensure we get a really high second round pick. I second that. Those three wins set this franchise back 5 years. Tank the season now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dckey Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 That's fair...I think both ways are flawed and would love a better defensive metric to use. Be that as it may, if our defense in 2012 was giving up 6 fewer points per game (as they were last year), we would be 5-2 right now. In short, we would have a defense good enough to compete even if not perfect. Yes if we were giving up 6 less points a game but the fact is we are? People were talking about how GB and the Patriots last year was 31st and 32nd in the NFL in DEF and made the Super Bowl but what they don't see was they were 15th and 16th in PPG Allowed I have never seen a team get to the playoffs letting teams score as much as we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I am getting tired of the injury excuse too. We have played well and absorbed a lot of injuries this year. The Packers did the same in 2010 and won the Super Bowl with a huge list of guys on IR. No reaso we can't still make a run at the division. If the defense just slightly improves we could be 5-2 right now or better easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I think we should all start actively rooting for the Redskins to lose the rest of our games to ensure we get a really high second round pick. We need a catchy phrase to emulate last year's Suck for Luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 My point was that all be the most extreme of circumstances, like Indy under Mannings genius, everything coming together for the Saints and Packers in recent years; an O outscoring what the D gives up will only take you so far before it eventually catches up with you. Maybe we're developing that kind of top notch offensive with Robert at the helm. But it's still a risky path to think you'll have consistent success with a so-so D whilst putting all your eggs in one basket on your O game-on-game. We are saying the same thing...I'm fine focusing on D for a long time now that we have our franchise QB (with the occasional OL or something). I just think we can BEGIN TO COMPETE before that rebuild of our D is completed. At some point it is just basic math...once we improve our D to the point where we give up fewer points than we score, we will win more often...even before our D is a finished product. ---------- Post added October-21st-2012 at 10:11 PM ---------- Yes if we were giving up 6 less points a game but the fact is we are? People were talking about how GB and the Patriots last year was 31st and 32nd in the NFL in DEF and made the Super Bowl but what they don't see was they were 15th and 16th in PPG Allowed I have never seen a team get to the playoffs letting teams score as much as we do. Great. I only introduced last year into the conversation to illustrate that many of our secondary players were here when we were playing defense at a level that would be part of a winning formula this year. Doughty, Hall, and Wilson all were here last year and that defense would be in first place right now combined with this offense. We aren't 4 great players away from being adequate on defense...that's my only point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoudMouth12thMan Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 GHH is absolutely right. I'll get to why in the second paragraph. The only luxury we have is the offense is pretty set as it is. They need one or two pieces for depth and that's about it. If we can concentrate on the defense in the offseason and stay healthy, we may be ahead of GHH's proposed schedule. GHH makes some good points. There's no guarantee that we'll have a successful offseason whether we have cap space (which we don't) and/or 1st round draft picks (which we don't) or not. But, you've got a better shot at acquiring a pro bowl caliber DB or RT with cap space and a 1st round pick. Your chances of hitting on an impact player without cap space and a 1st round pick are pretty slim. Now, can we improve the defense next year with a couple cheap pieces in FA and a hit in the draft? Yes, but we tried that this year and it hasn't worked so far. The bottom line is that we're not as deep on defense as Shanahan tried to sell us on and they've got a lot of work to do in terms of surrounding RGIII with talent to make a real push. My gut says we're two years away from competing for a division title and a deep playoff run. Whether Danny Boy will be that patient I'm not sure. I don't think it matters with a guy like RGIII. He'll be good with any head coach quite frankly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dckey Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 [/color] Great. I only introduced last year into the conversation to illustrate that many of our secondary players were here when we were playing defense at a level that would be part of a winning formula this year. Doughty, Hall, and Wilson all were here last year and that defense would be in first place right now combined with this offense. We aren't 4 great players away from being adequate on defense...that's my only point. But don't you think the reason we were giving up less points last year was because teams did not think they had to score points on us to beat us because our offense was so poor. Now that teams come into the game saying we need to score on them to beat them they are game planning to go down the field more. And we are being exposed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I don't really buy into that too much...especially if they believed we had a poor defense. Our offense wasn't horrible last year. We moved the ball and showed that we could score. I don't think teams took their foot off the gas on us last year...in 2004, maybe a bit since we could ONLY beat a team 14-10, but not last year. ---------- Post added October-21st-2012 at 10:57 PM ---------- GHH is absolutely right. Now, can we improve the defense next year with a couple cheap pieces in FA and a hit in the draft? Yes, but we tried that this year and it hasn't worked so far. I don't mean to call you out, but how can you say that he is absolutely right in saying that we "can't compete until 2014" when you concede that we can improve the D this off season? Maybe it's just a matter of some of you being dramatic and my misunderstanding of some use of hyperbole, but I don't see how someone could believe that we are both 2-3 years away but also capable of improving our weakness this off season. ---------- Post added October-21st-2012 at 10:55 PM ---------- GHH is absolutely right. Now, can we improve the defense next year with a couple cheap pieces in FA and a hit in the draft? Yes, but we tried that this year and it hasn't worked so far. I don't mean to call you out, but how can you say that he is absolutely right in saying that we "can't compete until 2014" when You concede that we can improve the D this off season? Maybe it's just a matter of some of you being dramatic and using hyperbole, but I don't see how someone could believe that we are both 2-3 years away but also capable of improving our weakness this off season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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