Does Rob Jackson make Orakpo expendable?

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

1.We already dangled Orakpo when trying to trade with St.Louis this offseason.

2.Orakpo will be a FA after 2013 so time is now to figure out what you have in Jackson

3.Teams like the Steelers let LBs walk and have replacements all the time

4.Kerrigan is playing like our best LB right now. How much do you pay Rak when Kerrigan will need a deal shortly after? Bruce has already shown he wont just overpay to keep people. Best LB will be the highest paid LB.

5. Jackson over the years has always came in and produced so sunday was not a surprise.

6. People in the organization have wondered what they really have in Jackson

7. How much if any is Jackson a fall off from Rak has already been discussed at length in Ashburn,

8. Anyone notice how quick the team removed Orakpo from redskins.com backround once he was injured? A day later they had London up there.

good info...definitely something to think about but my position isn't changing

[Going Commando]

1.We already dangled Orakpo when trying to trade with St.Louis this offseason.

That seems different than just trading him off because we want to start Rob Jackson. That trade was to get a franchise QB.

2.Orakpo will be a FA after 2013 so time is now to figure out what you have in Jackson

You're talking like Jackson will be the one who decides whether or not we keep Orakpo--as if we're settling for Orakpo. It'll be about how Orakpo looks after his contract year.

3.Teams like the Steelers let LBs walk and have replacements all the time

They signed Lamarr Woodley and James Harrison to huge deals. And they drafted developmental guys like Worilds in the second round. They had better depth than we do and still kept their guys.

4.Kerrigan is playing like our best LB right now. How much do you pay Rak when Kerrigan will need a deal shortly after? Bruce has already shown he wont just overpay to keep people. Best LB will be the highest paid LB.

Kerrigan has been good no doubt. He'll get his money when the time comes, I don't see how his deal affects the decision to keep Orakpo. We want to play them both, Kerrigan isn't taking snaps from Rak.

5. Jackson over the years has always came in and produced so sunday was not a surprise.

Really? I think his production has been exaggerated. He's got one nice game to his name. In five years he's played in 29 games, has 19 tackles, 1 sack, and 1 interception. That's not really a history of production. He made a great play on a tipped pass at the goal line to intercept it and fell into the score. Then he had a couple of nice tackles for loss and drew a hold. A good day. But he only had six pass rushes the whole game. He subs out for Chris Wilson in our pressure sets. He's not even a complete player.

6. People in the organization have wondered what they really have in Jackson

I'm sure they have insofar as people would wonder about every backup on the roster stuck behind a stalwart.

7. How much if any is Jackson a fall off from Rak has already been discussed at length in Ashburn,

What's the conclusion you've heard? Jackson getting 6 pass rushes and getting subbed out for Chris Wilson in pressure sets says a lot to me. They are going to use him in the base package for run contain and for those spot drops when the offense shows pass. Put another way, they don't think much of his pass rushing ability but like his run defense. That's fine. But since our scheme puts the onus on our edge rushers generating consistent pressure, I can't see Jackson playing every down unless another LBer gets hurt.

Orakpo is a great pass rusher and one of the most productive pass rushers in the NFL..

8. Anyone notice how quick the team removed Orakpo from redskins.com backround once he was injured? A day later they had London up there.

You think Shanahan and Allen had a hand in that? Isn't that the purview of the webmaster?

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Chris Clemons.

Just saying.

Are you mentioning a guy we got rid of who played well or a depth guy who was never given a great shot here who played well?

[Skins4Life6388]

This response is less a response to you and more to this thread, but why can't we be happy with a fine player? Even if he isn't the dominant pass rusher we were hoping for. Why are we on ES always looking to get rid of somebody?

I know you said it isnt a response to me. but I wanted to chime in again. I definitely am not advocating getting rid of him. He is obviously a talent, just has underperformed to an extent.

[Lavarleap56]

That seems different than just trading him off because we want to start Rob Jackson. That trade was to get a franchise QB.

I get that but this was looked at as a show and prove year for Orakpo. Not my thoughts but the coaches.

You're talking like Jackson will be the one who decides whether or not we keep Orakpo--as if we're settling for Orakpo. It'll be about how Orakpo looks after his contract year.

Yes and No.. Jackson steps in and shows the drop off is minimal if any over 13 games then yes that will raise eyebrows with the powers that be. Jackson or Whyte fall flat then of course it enhances Raks value.

They signed Lamarr Woodley and James Harrison to huge deals. And they drafted developmental guys like Worilds in the second round. They had better depth than we do and still kept their guys.

They have a history befroe them of letting them walk and replacing like Joey Porter etc.

Kerrigan has been good no doubt. He'll get his money when the time comes, I don't see how his deal affects the decision to keep Orakpo. We want to play them both, Kerrigan isn't taking snaps from Rak.

Many people in and around the NFL already consider Kerrigan our best LB. Bruce will not pay Rak like a premiere pass rusher if he is not one.

Really? I think his production has been exaggerated. He's got one nice game to his name. In five years he's played in 29 games, has 19 tackles, 1 sack, and 1 interception. That's not really a history of production. He made a great play on a tipped pass at the goal line to intercept it and fell into the score. Then he had a couple of nice tackles for loss and drew a hold. A good day. But he only had six pass rushes the whole game. He subs out for Chris Wilson in our pressure sets. He's not even a complete player.

Hard to just look at the stats and judge because they don't tell the whole story. To make a accurate assessment you have to actually watch all his snaps etc.

I'm sure they have insofar as people would wonder about every backup on the roster stuck behind a stalwart.

Na its more than that.. Some people have felt for awhile Jackson was not a drop off from Rak.

What's the conclusion you've heard? Jackson getting 6 pass rushes and getting subbed out for Chris Wilson in pressure sets says a lot to me. They are going to use him in the base package for run contain and for those spot drops when the offense shows pass. Put another way, they don't think much of his pass rushing ability but like his run defense. That's fine. But since our scheme puts the onus on our edge rushers generating consistent pressure, I can't see Jackson playing every down unless another LBer gets hurt.

I don't have to draw conclusions.. Team wanted to get all of them some time to see how it wanted to use them going forward. Jackson won the spot and needed a breather. Wilson,Whyte not that strong in the base D but do give you rush..Time to get Jackson a breather was in somke rush situations. They actually love Jacksons rush.

Orakpo is a great pass rusher and one of the most productive pass rushers in the NFL..

very debatable and I disagree. Good pass rusher yes, Great no..

You think Shanahan and Allen had a hand in that? Isn't that the purview of the webmaster?

No not at all, just thought it was odd and a Redskin like thing to do..

I just listed my original statements as info to the topic. I'm not advocating kicking Rak to the curb for anybody BUT I have had my eye on Jackson for awhile and if he shows he can walk the walk then so be it.

[The Fax]

I think we should learn from our mistakes. If we let Rak go he's going to explode elsewhere, ala Rogers. Keep them both, whats wrong with that?

[littlehunch]

We would get no higher than a 3rd if we traded Orakpro. Nobody is giving a 1st or 2nd pick for an injury prone linebacker and then the new team would still have to sign him to a huge deal.

[RandyHolt]

I liked Jackson from our old 4-3 days. But its knee jerk reaction thread to him scoring a TD.

The closest anyone comes to making Rak expendable (not saying anyone does), its Kerrigan. He caused the rare 0 yd INT for TD.

We all miss the once expendable Chris Clemons. Suddenly.

[2006Skins]

We would get no higher than a 3rd if we traded Orakpro. Nobody is giving a 1st or 2nd pick for an injury prone linebacker and then the new team would still have to sign him to a huge deal.

Injury prone? When did he become injury prone? Because of one injury? I understand this is the same injury as the end of last season, but it's a torn pec. This isn't like having a bad achilles ala Landry. Missing one start ind 3 years and going on IR from an injury that probably didn't heal properly does not constitute the "injury prone" label

[Spunkush]

Orakpo missed 1 game in his entire career before this injury, ONE. Not sure how thy equates to injury prone.

[Dirt]

Depth...depth....

If Raks injury history does, in fact make him cheaper, then of course we keep him and develop the best linebacker depth in the league.

[FSUSkins24]

I know you said it isnt a response to me. but I wanted to chime in again. I definitely am not advocating getting rid of him. He is obviously a talent, just has underperformed to an extent.

There is no denying he has underperformed. When we got him, I'm pretty sure we were all hoping for a DWare type. What sometimes bugs me about this board is just that everyone is always trying to flip somebody for something, but you and I can agree he is a fine OLB. Sometimes I wonder if he is just utilized wrong.

[FuriousD]

Next we'll hear that Jackson is so good he was calling plays for Haslett in the 4th quarter!

[Skins199021]

Kerrigan doesn't make Orakpo expendable. Why is that even a thought process. If Kerrigan could play both OLB positions at the same time than yes he could make Orakpo expendable. Exactly what are people hoping to accomplish here by trading a top OLB for a draft pick? To start an inferior player (don't kid yourselves), and decrease our depth?

This is no more logical than saying hey lets trade RG3 for some picks, because Cousins looks good... just no

[MartinC]

If Jackson plays really well all year and ends with say 7 or 8 sacks holds the edge against the run well and makes some impact plays like forcing fumbles or a couple more picks this is a conversation. Right now not so much IMO.

I'm sure the coaches will be evaluating Jackson and comparing him in all facets against Rak though - and it's not just about stats which is what we tend to focus on as fans. It's how he performs in terms of his gap responsibility, back side contain (he got caught inside at least once Sunday), coverage etc etc.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

If Jackson turns into a Pro Bowler, I'd still keep Orakpo and trade Jackson.

Why would you trade Jackson? He's the cheaper player and has less wear and tear.

[smackdown 46]

One game will not tell all on Jackson, give him the end of the season and judge the whole body of work. He may be on the bench himself by then.

Never realized how completely vunerable Vinny Cerrato and Snyders bungling had left us.

[BobGriffin]

Im seriously starting to think Rak is becoming underrated among skins fans because he doesn't get as many sacks n stuff

[MusicCitySkin]

What is wrong with this fan base? A talented, star player goes down, and all of a sudden he's injury prone, damaged goods, who could easily be removed in favor of an unproven late round draft pick from 2008 with ONE career sack? Umm, ok, Redskins fans.

[redskins55]

Jackson is not even an option to replace Rak full time. How can your 4th best pass rusher replace your #1 rusher?? The question should be does Kerrigan make Rak expendable?? And the answer is no!

This is the year that Ryan Kerrigan should show us that he is a pro bowler, but he hasn't done that yet.. I dont get what the big hype about Kerrigan is. He is good but the way people talk about him its as if he is the best LB on our team and he isnt. He had just 7 sacks last year (against no double teams), hasn't developed an arsenal of moves, and he struggles against the run at times.Sounds strikingly similar to Rak.People are rightfully critical of Rak for not developing more moves, but Kerrigan looks the same. It seems like they both haven't been taught how to rush the passer like Dwight Freeney or Vaughn Miller whom clearly have multiple moves to get to the QB. So until Kerrigan shows us he can consistently get double digits sacks , no one makes Orakpo expendable.

BTW: Chris Wilson is our best PURE pass rusher because he has speed and the most pass rushing moves at his disposal. But his lack of size makes him a liability in the run game.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

LL bringing the heat on this thread. I agree with all his assessments. And as far as being a "knee jerk" reaction to Jackson's 1 TD play, I have felt that the guy could be a starter in the league for some time now.

And yes, I know his stats haven't been anything to brag about I just like seeing him get more snaps. The guy has played well and made plays everytime I've watched him in preseason and in the regular season. Every single time. And I'm a huge Rak fan.

[bedlamVR]

I get that but this was looked at as a show and prove year for Orakpo. Not my thoughts but the coaches.

They have a history before them of letting them walk and replacing like Joey Porter etc.

.

But in fairness the Steelers had kind of moved on from Porter before he left . In his final year there he was pretty much a down year and he went when Tomlinson was in the process of taking over .. and that was in 2006 -They were struggling with the salary cap and looking to establish a new legacy . They also used their fist two picks in 2007 on Timmons and Woodley .

More recently they have had a tendency to pay their talent .... Also in terms of dangling players in a trade ... we have in the past dangled Bailey, Chris Samuels, LaVar Arrington and other key players . Their name may have come up but it is not clear in what context . It could have been very early in the process or could have been a suggestion of Orakpo + 1 No 1 pick in 2012 - (valuing Orakpo at a 2013 1st and 2011 2nd)

In 2013 remember we will suddenly have the veil of the 18 million in cap-space penalties removed and we will have cap space to make him a reasonable offer .

This is the same argument of Willie Smith over Trent Williams - Only the Redskins fans love the back up over the starter - Jackson in everyway is a inferior player . He is a bit part backup and if the coaches think we should be replacing all of our starting players with their backups god help us ...

When people talk about Rak as a pass rusher they fail to look at him as a complete player - I have seen him out in coverage and VS the run he is very good . Kerrigan is a fantastic player too, he has that none stop motor which makes him a terror at the line but I have not seen him do all the things Orakpo does - not saying he cannot just saying Orakpo seems more flexable .

I would love for Jackson to be that key back up who can come in and spell for either one of our OLBs without much of a drop off - it is called depth and lets say Jackson has a decent but not outstanding year then he might be this mythical depth which we seem to go out of our way not to want or have .

Lets just remember in 2004 we had a decision to make on Antonio Peirce but his back up Lemar Marshell was showing some skill (at OLB - spelling for LaVar) We let Peirce go and fans still lament that decision .... lets not get ahead of ourselves ?

[Lavarleap56]

But in fairness the Steelers had kind of moved on from Porter before he left . In his final year there he was pretty much a down year and he went when Tomlinson was in the process of taking over .. and that was in 2006 -They were struggling with the salary cap and looking to establish a new legacy . They also used their fist two picks in 2007 on Timmons and Woodley .

More recently they have had a tendency to pay their talent .... Also in terms of dangling players in a trade ... we have in the past dangled Bailey, Chris Samuels, LaVar Arrington and other key players . Their name may have come up but it is not clear in what context . It could have been very early in the process or could have been a suggestion of Orakpo + 1 No 1 pick in 2012 - (valuing Orakpo at a 2013 1st and 2011 2nd)

In 2013 remember we will suddenly have the veil of the 18 million in cap-space penalties removed and we will have cap space to make him a reasonable offer .

This is the same argument of Willie Smith over Trent Williams - Only the Redskins fans love the back up over the starter - Jackson in everyway is a inferior player . He is a bit part backup and if the coaches think we should be replacing all of our starting players with their backups god help us ...

When people talk about Rak as a pass rusher they fail to look at him as a complete player - I have seen him out in coverage and VS the run he is very good . Kerrigan is a fantastic player too, he has that none stop motor which makes him a terror at the line but I have not seen him do all the things Orakpo does - not saying he cannot just saying Orakpo seems more flexable .

I would love for Jackson to be that key back up who can come in and spell for either one of our OLBs without much of a drop off - it is called depth and lets say Jackson has a decent but not outstanding year then he might be this mythical depth which we seem to go out of our way not to want or have .

Lets just remember in 2004 we had a decision to make on Antonio Peirce but his back up Lemar Marshell was showing some skill (at OLB - spelling for LaVar) We let Peirce go and fans still lament that decision .... lets not get ahead of ourselves ?

Kerrigan is better right now bro.. I like Rak but Kerrigan is a better player. You pay game changers big money and Orakpo has not changed games for us. How many times have we seen Orakpo drop picks? Go sackless in division play? Not killin the guy but just looking at it objectively.

Kerrigan showed he had a knack for making game changing plays right off the bat in 2011. I think Rak has all the potential in the world to be great but im not sure he will ever realize that greatness.

The other issue is Orakpos pec and why it keeps tearing. Will it be a chronic issue? did he do his rehab correctly or did he rush it back ? all questions we are not sure off. The one thing I hope did not happen is he used " medicine" to aid it to heal faster and damaged it for the longrun.. I seriously doubt it but when his brother who has no money gets popped with anabolic steroids and HGH you have to at least wonder how and where did they come from ? I have no reason to believe Rak has used anything but like I said it makes you wonder.

http://www.zimbio.com/Human+Growth+Hormones/articles/BrGk3Oyno_v/Police+Discover+Steroids+After+Brawl+Involving

[GoDeep81]

Kerrigan is better right now bro.. I like Rak but Kerrigan is a better player.

All honesty, Kerrigan is about the only player on the team who's met or exceeded expectations under this coaching staff.. RGIII looks like #2, but that's still some pretty lame #'s.. Don't know who ya have to pay off to get a couple guys actually exceed expectations on this team, but it's a pretty damn rare feat..

[Laron Burgundy]

All honesty, Kerrigan is about the only player on the team who's met or exceeded expectations under this coaching staff.. RGIII looks like #2, but that's still some pretty lame #'s.. Don't know who ya have to pay off to get a couple guys actually exceed expectations on this team, but it's a pretty damn rare feat..

I was thinking this the other day. Our division rivals get guys like Cruz and Austin and Cole, guys who are expected to be, at best, depth, and they somehow become stars in the league. Meanwhile I can't think of a single late round pick we've had in quite some time that has just destroyed expectations. It would be nice to just hit on one of those picks. It's such a huge boon to a team when you are paying a guy league minimum and yet he's an elite player at his position. Hell, it would be nice to hit on a 2nd rounder even, as our guys there have been average starters at best.