Does Rob Jackson make Orakpo expendable?

[Koolblue13]

Are you implying that Griffin is at the QB position what Orakpo is at the LB position?

Because that's absurd, if so. Orakpo is no where near as good at his job as Griffin is at his, and Griffin has only played 3 games...

Orakpo is the most overrated player currently on the team. This fanbase loves to fall in love with players simply because we drafted them. His numbers are pedestrian. He had one move his first year, thats bull rushing; since then he's developed a single new move, that would be complaining about holding every play.

He over pursues the play every down to the point where other teams run right at him. They game plan to run right at orakpo because they know he'll over pursue.

No, I wasn't implying that and your assessment of Orakpo is wrong. He gets overrated as often as folks like yourself underrate him. He isa very good, young, above average OLB and we're lucky to have him.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

I understand that, but I still liked his response better than LLs response to his response. (if you know what I mean)

:ols:

[Koolblue13]

What? LB is our deepest position on the team... It's the one place we have real, adequate depth. RB would be in the conversation too I imagine.

How is it deep? We have 4 starters and two moderate back ups in OMG and Jackson, neither of which d we want being an every week starter.

[tshile]

No, I wasn't implying that and your assessment of Orakpo is wrong. He gets overrated as often as folks like yourself underrate him. He isa very good, young, above average OLB and we're lucky to have him.

We're lucky to have him? He's underrated?

And what information do you have that suggests that, other than him being a starter on the team you cheer for?

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&statisticPositionCategory=LINEBACKER&d-447263-s=DEFENSIVE_COMBINE_TACKLES&tabSeq=1&season=2011&Submit=Go&experience=null&archive=true&conference=null&qualified=true

According to last year's stats, orakpo doesn't rank in the top 50 linebackers in:

- combined tackles

- total tackles

He doesn't have pass defense stats for 2011. I'm not sure if thats a problem with the NFL database though.

he's #40 in assisted tackles

he's in a 3 way tie for sacks, but the drop off from the top 4 to where he is is staggering. Demarcuse ware has 19.5, orakpo has 9. It's not even close. They're not even playing in the same ballpark when it comes to sacks...

he's in a 9 way tie for 7th in forced fumbles. the spread on the numbers is very small, hard to take much from this category good or bad. He's in a huge tie for 20th, but again a small spread.

So he does ok in the sack department, but is certainly nothing special.

His numbers are pedestrian for a 1st round pick. I like orakpo, and I don't know it's coaching, if he's just figured something out yet (maybe he can start with a 2nd move?), or what, but the numbers are not there to consider him a top LB in the league.

We aren't 'lucky' to have him. I have a feeling he's going to demand way too much money too. There's a difference between claiming someone is over rated and saying they suck - i'm not saying he sucks. He's just not the star our fan base has made him out to be; yet. I hope he becomes it, but after a season ending injury I don't know how we justify signing him for the price he's going to ask. He's no where near Demarcus Ware type money... We'll have to see what he asks for.

[redskins59]

The coaching staff is pretty stupid if they think there is not a huge dropoff from Orakpo to Jackson. Everybody knows our pass rush was great against New Orleans. However Bradford and Dalton were really not touched that much. The bengals were giving up way too many sacks in their first two games. Dalton got sacked only twice by the redskins. It is not just the secondary. There has been virtually no pass rush. Also remember that the Rams were playing with backup offensive linemen.

Shanahan knows offense, but the fact is he got fired from Denver because of the defense. If this coaching staff thinks there is not a huge dropoff from Orakpo to Jackson, then they all need to be fired ASAP.

[tshile]

How is it deep? We have 4 starters and two moderate back ups in OMG and Jackson, neither of which d we want being an every week starter.

For starters we have:

London Fletcher, Perry Riley, Ryan Kerrigan, Brian Orakpo

For backups:

Lorenzo Alexander, Keenan Robinson, Rob Jackson, Chris Wilson, Marcus White

Now I'm not sold on Chris Wilson and Marcus White, but they've certainly had their flashes that it's worth seeing what else they have. Alexander, Robinson, and Jackson are more than capable backups, any of which I'd be ok with starting due to injury.

I consider that pretty good depth, considering we don't have depth like that anywhere else on the team...

[Oldfan]

For what it's worth, Kerrigan had 8.0 sacks last year. That's a damn good number for a rook. However, in Rak's 3 year career going into this season, he never had less than 8.5. So labeling Kerrigan a better pass rusher at this point is probably premature, too (although, again, I don't have a horse in that race, I like both of them a lot).

Kerrigan may be more of an impact player, but Rak is more athletic and probably a slightly better pass rusher. Those two are a KILLER combo.

I think we need to crank in the fact that Orakpo goes head-to-head against the opponent's left tackle which is more challenging than going against their right tackle.

It's safe to assume that our coaches think Rak is the better of the two at the pass rush. If they didn't Kerrigan would be switched to the blindside.

[Koolblue13]

We're lucky to have him? He's underrated?

We aren't 'lucky' to have him. I have a feeling he's going to demand way too much money too. There's a difference between claiming someone is over rated and saying they suck - i'm not saying he sucks. He's just not the star our fan base has made him out to be; yet. I hope he becomes it, but after a season ending injury I don't know how we justify signing him for the price he's going to ask. He's no where near Demarcus Ware type money... We'll have to see what he asks for.

Stats aren't everything and who gives a flying **** about his draft status. A players position in the draft, instantly becomes pointless the second they are drafted.

[JSSkinz]

The coaching staff is pretty stupid if they think there is not a huge dropoff from Orakpo to Jackson. Everybody knows our pass rush was great against New Orleans.

I dont know what games you are watching but we only had 2 sacks againts the Saints as well, take that Saints game and throw it out of your memory because they are one of the worse teams in the NFL this year. We put some pressure on in all 3 games but Bradford got rid of the ball in less than 2 sec and against the Bengals our secondary was exploited. The defense basically played the same in all 3 games.

[Koolblue13]

For starters we have:

London Fletcher, Perry Riley, Ryan Kerrigan, Brian Orakpo

For backups:

Lorenzo Alexander, Keenan Robinson, Rob Jackson, Chris Wilson, Marcus White

Now I'm not sold on Chris Wilson and Marcus White, but they've certainly had their flashes that it's worth seeing what else they have. Alexander, Robinson, and Jackson are more than capable backups, any of which I'd be ok with starting due to injury.

I consider that pretty good depth, considering we don't have depth like that anywhere else on the team...

Our depth does suck at most positions. We have a lot of injuries all the time and have only recently started drafting well the last three years. We are also out $36million inn cap space for two years.

That is all true and none of it makes poor depth better.

[tshile]

Stats aren't everything and who gives a flying **** about his draft status. A players position in the draft, instantly becomes pointless the second they are drafted.

Uh... every team in the league cares about it. We just fired a guy who for 10 years couldn't adequately draft a player in the position we have; he, by the way, drafted orakpo.

Stats aren't everything, but if you're going to watch the same games I watch and refuse to admit all he does is ***** about being held, over pursue plays, and have opposing teams game plan to run right at him, then stats is the only thing we can even use to talk about it.

I agree stats aren't everything, but his stats are the best thing he has going for him in my opinion, and they're not very good.

Rob Jackson turned run plays into tackles for losses. Plays that Orakpo just flat out over pursues.

[authentic]

1.We already dangled Orakpo when trying to trade with St.Louis this offseason.

2.Orakpo will be a FA after 2013 so time is now to figure out what you have in Jackson

3.Teams like the Steelers let LBs walk and have replacements all the time

4.Kerrigan is playing like our best LB right now. How much do you pay Rak when Kerrigan will need a deal shortly after? Bruce has already shown he wont just overpay to keep people. Best LB will be the highest paid LB.

5. Jackson over the years has always came in and produced so sunday was not a surprise.

6. People in the organization have wondered what they really have in Jackson

7. How much if any is Jackson a fall off from Rak has already been discussed at length in Ashburn,

8. Anyone notice how quick the team removed Orakpo from redskins.com backround once he was injured? A day later they had London up there.

see, this is what i'm saying ^^^... but what do i know?

[tshile]

Our depth does suck at most positions. We have a lot of injuries all the time and have only recently started drafting well the last three years. We are also out $36million inn cap space for two years.

That is all true and none of it makes poor depth better.

I guess majority of my problem is that now he's out for the year, we don't get to see how good/bad he would be this year. And his contract is up.

He's going to demand top dollar and I don't understand where it's justified at all. The stats don't back it up, and other teams purposefully running at him doesn't back it up.

I'm not saying Rob Jackson can step in and instantly be better. I just don't see how Orakpo wears the B&G next year unless he has a much more adjusted opinion of what he is worth than I think he has...

[KDawg]

According to last year's stats, orakpo doesn't rank in the top 50 linebackers in:

- combined tackles

- total tackles

This is a FLAWED way of looking at statistics. You clearly are negating the responsibilities of a 3-4 OLB vs. OLBs in a 4-3 and inside/mike backers in the 3-4/4-3 defense.

James Harrison. OLB in Pittsburgh. 50 tackles/12 assists. NINE sacks. ONE pass defensed.(2011)

LaMar Woodley. OLB in Pittsburgh. 28 tackles/13 assists. NINE sacks. 1 INT 2 PD. (10 games, 2011)

Clay Matthews. OLB in Green Bay. 41 tackles/14 assists. SIX sacks. 3 INT 9 PD (2011)

Erik Walden. OLB in Green Bay. 41 tackles/19 assists. THREE sacks. 3 PD. (2011)

Ryan Kerrigan. 41 tackles/23 assists. EIGHT sacks. 3 PD, 1 INT (2011)

Brian Orakpo. 35 tackles/25 assists. NINE sacks. 5 PD. (2011)

What point are you trying to make by including MIKE and JACK backers in the stats?

We aren't 'lucky' to have him. I have a feeling he's going to demand way too much money too. There's a difference between claiming someone is over rated and saying they suck - i'm not saying he sucks. He's just not the star our fan base has made him out to be; yet. I hope he becomes it, but after a season ending injury I don't know how we justify signing him for the price he's going to ask. He's no where near Demarcus Ware type money... We'll have to see what he asks for.

DeMarcus Ware is an animal coming off the edge. One of the best. But his tackle numbers were pedestrian as well. 48/10. In fact, Rak had more total tackles than Ware did. Difference being, Ware had 10.5 more sacks

[DC9]

I guess majority of my problem is that now he's out for the year, we don't get to see how good/bad he would be this year. And his contract is up.

He's going to demand top dollar and I don't understand where it's justified at all. The stats don't back it up, and other teams purposefully running at him doesn't back it up.

I'm not saying Rob Jackson can step in and instantly be better. I just don't see how Orakpo wears the B&G next year unless he has a much more adjusted opinion of what he is worth than I think he has...

He isn't a FA until after next year (2013 season).

That all said, if Rob Jackson has another game this weekend like he did last weekend and continues that throughout the season... we still sign Orakpo if we can. Depth is important. However, I will lobby the NFL to allow Rob Jackson to simply have "Rob" on the back of his jersey.

[Koolblue13]

I guess majority of my problem is that now he's out for the year, we don't get to see how good/bad he would be this year. And his contract is up.

He's going to demand top dollar and I don't understand where it's justified at all. The stats don't back it up, and other teams purposefully running at him doesn't back it up.

I'm not saying Rob Jackson can step in and instantly be better. I just don't see how Orakpo wears the B&G next year unless he has a much more adjusted opinion of what he is worth than I think he has...

This post made my notification number 98.

[tshile]

This is a FLAWED way of looking at statistics. You clearly are negating the responsibilities of a 3-4 OLB vs. OLBs in a 4-3 and inside/mike backers in the 3-4/4-3 defense.

James Harrison. OLB in Pittsburgh. 50 tackles/12 assists. NINE sacks. ONE pass defensed.(2011)

LaMar Woodley. OLB in Pittsburgh. 28 tackles/13 assists. NINE sacks. 1 INT 2 PD. (10 games, 2011)

Clay Matthews. OLB in Green Bay. 41 tackles/14 assists. SIX sacks. 3 INT 9 PD (2011)

Erik Walden. OLB in Green Bay. 41 tackles/19 assists. THREE sacks. 3 PD. (2011)

Ryan Kerrigan. 41 tackles/23 assists. EIGHT sacks. 3 PD, 1 INT (2011)

Brian Orakpo. 35 tackles/25 assists. NINE sacks. 5 PD. (2011)

What point are you trying to make by including MIKE and JACK backers in the stats?

DeMarcus Ware is an animal coming off the edge. One of the best. But his tackle numbers were pedestrian as well. 48/10. In fact, Rak had more total tackles than Ware did. Difference being, Ware had 10.5 more sacks

Fair enough on the stats angle. I guess you have to separate out 3-4 vs 4-3 linebackers.

Again, I'm not saying he sucks, just that he's no where near as good as this fan base loves to pretend he is.

At this point I'd choose 2 Ryan Kerrigans over 2 Brian Orakpo's if those were the options...

He isn't a FA until after next year (2013 season).

That all said, if Rob Jackson has another game this weekend like he did last weekend and continues that throughout the season... we still sign Orakpo if we can. Depth is important. However, I will lobby the NFL to allow Rob Jackson to simply have "Rob" on the back of his jersey.

Well then, that changes everything for me; assuming he's health enough to play the 2013 season. For some reason I thought he was a FA this off season.

I still think he's going to ask for way too much, but at least I know he's got the 2013 season to prove he worth it...

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Why does everyone want to compare Orakpo to what DeMarcus Ware (a once in a lifetime talent) does??? Is it because we are so pressed about Dallas?

You can be good to great without being a HOF'er

[DC9]

Well then, that changes everything for me; assuming he's health enough to play the 2013 season. For some reason I thought he was a FA this off season.

I still think he's going to ask for way too much, but at least I know he's got the 2013 season to prove he worth it...

How do you feel about letting RJack have just "Rob" on the back of his jersey?

I'd buy one.

[tshile]

Why does everyone want to compare Orakpo to what DeMarcus Ware (a once in a lifetime talent) does??? Is it because we are so pressed about Dallas?

You can be good to great without being a HOF'er

Because when people start saying someone is the best, you have to compare him to the best at his position.

This fan base treats him like he's a top 5 LB in the league. He's not. You determine that by comparing him to the top 5 LB's in the league.

I'm not convinced he's in the top 2 on the team. I put fletcher and kerrigan ahead of him; at this point.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Because when people start saying someone is the best, you have to compare him to the best at his position.

This fan base treats him like he's a top 5 LB in the league. He's not. You determine that by comparing him to the top 5 LB's in the league.

I'm not convinced he's in the top 2 on the team. I put fletcher and kerrigan ahead of him; at this point.

I've never heard someone say all that but maybe you have....

I just think the words "overrated" and "underperformed" aren't warranted

[DC9]

Why does everyone want to compare Orakpo to what DeMarcus Ware (a once in a lifetime talent) does??? Is it because we are so pressed about Dallas?

You can be good to great without being a HOF'er

Orakpo isn't even Charles Mann to me. He's better than Andre Carter in his prime, but he's not a beast. It's unfair to him to compare him to someone like Ware. I think most of that comes from a starving fan base seeking approval and relevance from elsewhere in the league. I agree with you. He can be a very good player and not be a HOF'er. Good point.

[tshile]

I've never heard someone say all that but maybe you have....

I just think the words "overrated" and "underperformed" aren't warranted

It's entirely possible I'm exaggerating when I describe the way this fan base thinks of Orakpo.

I would go so far as to say he wasn't worth the first round pick we spent on him; at least not yet. I think there are quite a few people who not only think he was worth the pick, but that the skins must resign him. I think that's over rated, but it's just my opinion.

[DC9]

I just think the words "overrated" and "underperformed" aren't warranted

Has he lived up to all of your expectations though? I mean, 11 sack, 8.5 sacks, and 9 sacks respectively? I think what people EXPECT of him and what he is CAPABLE of are the two things you have to look at.

I'd say we expect a bit much out of him because of guys like Ware in Dallas and the Giants pass rushers. He's the closest thing we have to those guys, but he's not them.

I also think he is capable to be a guy like that, he just needs to get another move (which we all talk about). We just haven't seen it. Sure his one move is pretty effective at getting guys to step up into the pocket... but it's fair to say he could be a better player.

Bottom line with me, he can be better, and Redskins Nation just needs to accept that he is not an elite pass rusher, but he's a better than good player.

[KDawg]

Fair enough on the stats angle. I guess you have to separate out 3-4 vs 4-3 linebackers.

You guess? No. You do.

At this point I'd choose 2 Ryan Kerrigans over 2 Brian Orakpo's if those were the options...

Ok, I'll bite.

Why?

They had EXTREMELY similar seasons. EXTREMELY. Kerrigan had a couple more tackles, Rak had one more sack, Kerrigan had a pick. Very close to each other in statistics.

This fan base treats him like he's a top 5 LB in the league. He's not. You determine that by comparing him to the top 5 LB's in the league.

I'm not convinced he's in the top 2 on the team. I put fletcher and kerrigan ahead of him; at this point.

And again, you're comparing an INSIDE LINEBACKER to a 3-4 OUTSIDE backer. Kerrigan is a fair comparison, and statistically based on last year they're just about even. But Orakpo had a better rookie year than Kerrigan did stat wise, totaling 11 sacks.

How about waiting to see how Kerrigan does sans Rak before we start saying he's better? I really like them both. I think Kerrigan is an absolute stud. But I think you're discounting 98 way too quickly.