Est.1974 Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 No The only thing that would make Rak 'expendable' is his future contract demands. Otherwise you keep all the pass-rushers you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2006Skins Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Did you know that Kerrigan, a rookie, drew more Double teams than Rak last year? True story... watch the tape.---------- Post added September-26th-2012 at 02:17 PM ---------- Logic would be, where is he in terms of feared and effective pass rushers in the league? He's not a top tier player. He's a better than good player. He's not a game changer. That's been established. And now, he's an often injured better than good player. Rob Jackson is a good player. Who, in one start, has more touchdowns than that Brian Orakpo-who-beat-him-out-for-four-straight-years-and-is-a-beast-and-got-cavemen-out-on-the-field has for his whole career. It is what it is. I see what you're saying, I've generally read most of this thread, but had to post a couple of things. One, in your comment on double teams, because I haven't watched all the tape that closely, I'll take your word for it. But I would think that says more about Kerrigan than it does saying something terrible about Rak. Kerrigan has drawn a ton of praise from everyone including other teams who envy our edge rush for the next ten years. Some people just think he's going to be a better all around pass rusher because of his ability to use speed and strength. - Nothing against Rak, but Kerrigan just may end up better. If that's the case, then that's great news for us because Rak can be a top tier pass rusher with a second move. Second, your comment about Jackson scoring more tds than Rak is ridiculous. I'm sorry, but it is. Hey, I've thrown as many td passes as Kirk Cousins and just as many ints also, does that mean I should be the backup qb? No. It means that neither of us has gotten on the field. Jackson was in the right place at the right time and made the play which is the important part. To say he deserves to start over Rak is a little much. By the way, stat for you: Coming into this year, Orakpo missed only one start since entering the NFL and has averaged 9 sacks a year. http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/12439/brian-orakpo If that turns out to be our second best pass rusher than color me happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachboy757 Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 No, you dont trade Rak. What you want is good depth on a football team, which is what Rob Jackson is. I consider Rak to be part of the frame or backbone of this D. Unless we could get a 1st round pick (which I doubt) or Darelle Revis then I don't see a where a trade would help us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCClybun Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 I see a lot of "he's better-than-average" stuff, but that's greatly underselling him as a pass rusher. In 2011 he was ranked 11th in pass rushing efficiency, ahead of Clay Matthews, Tamba Hali, Julius Peppers, among others. It's pretty clear that other teams around the NFL view him as a threat, otherwise he wouldn't command double teams the way he does. I guess he only has "one move", but that one move looks pretty damn effective most days. I'm thrilled that Rob Jackson had a good game, just like I was thrilled that Chris Wilson showed up and showed out in preseason, and even Markus is out there flashing. That means we have depth, which is awesome. But unless Rob Jackson is head-over-heels better than Rak (which is hard to tell after one game), I think the notion that he's expendable is kind of silly, sort-sighted, and as I said before, borne more out of frustration with our draft picks never seeming to reach some arbitrary, ever adjusting level of greatness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman21ST Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 ^^^And this little guy... this little guy was just put out there to show you guys (pro-Orakpo is the best types) how foolish you sound... because that's pretty much what you are throwing at every argument we have or every statement we make. So yes, it was intended it be a little facicious. As far as game changers at pass rusher... you are 100% correct, there aren't but two or three in the league, and Orakpo isn't one of them. Hopefully you'll grant me that much today. As I've said... Orakpo is a better than good player (B+)... Rob Jackson is a good player (. Not a huge drop off. What grade would you give Jackson in his first start? I know Bang said he'll wait 13 more games before deciding, and the jury is definitely still out on him... but I've always liked his motor and his play on the field. He's a good player. Did you notice a huge dropoff on Sunday? From our front 7, I thought we played better. I think that has less to do with Jackson/Orakpo and more to do with the fact that Jenkins was in there instead of Golston, but I didn't notice a drop off. And of course I think Barron is a better player. He hasn't had the games/snaps that Doughty has... (I've used that one recently with another comparison if I'm not mistaken). I agree that Rak isn't one of that one or two. But saying we don't have a "game-changing" pass rusher is completely different than saying we don't have a "game-changing" QB or WR (not saying that you said anything like that). However, I disagree with your comparison grades between the two players. If you want to give Rak a B+, that's fine (I'd probably give him an A- to A, but that's really just semantics). But calling Jackson a B is really stretching it. I'd give him a C to a C+ right now. Hopefully that goes up, but he hasn't done anything as of yet to warrant a B in my book. Kerrigan gets about the same grade as Orakpo, if you were wondering. Orakpo is better across the board. Jackson is a capable backup, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Right now, I'd grade Jackson out to be about on par with Lorenzo Alexander. To answer your question, I would give Jackson's game a B rating. A great start with the pick 6, and a couple decent pressures, but almost nonexistent for a majority of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wholee Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Orakpo is best fit rushing from DE in a 4-3 Defense. So is Kerrigan. If we continue in a 3-4, get what you can for Orakpo. He's not in his element standing up. I love Orakpo and was excited when he was drafted. But then we switched the philosophy of the Defense. The bottom line, put your best players in the best position to succeed. HTTR! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTskins Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Asking the very question is exactly why fans should not be running a team until they actually have some sort of experience (even a simulation) in running a team. You cannot field a team with only quality starters and **** depth because when the starter goes down, that **** depth is going to cost you games. If we get rid of Orakpo and let Jackson become the starter, who is backing up Jackson? Exactly. An unknown who might be good, mediocre, or a complete liability. I've won 5 straight Super Bowls in Madden '10 Do you think maybe I should increase the difficulty or turn on Fatigue?:laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir L Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 We need a shut down cb so yeah use that money for something else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadExField Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 I figure we can talk DEs in here. I'm all for shifting Kerrigan around more to keep the defense confused since he is now the main pass rusher with Orakpo out. It worked the last time he flipped sides Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC9 Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 I agree that Rak isn't one of that one or two. But saying we don't have a "game-changing" pass rusher is completely different than saying we don't have a "game-changing" QB or WR (not saying that you said anything like that).However, I disagree with your comparison grades between the two players. If you want to give Rak a B+, that's fine (I'd probably give him an A- to A, but that's really just semantics). But calling Jackson a B is really stretching it. I'd give him a C to a C+ right now. Hopefully that goes up, but he hasn't done anything as of yet to warrant a B in my book. Kerrigan gets about the same grade as Orakpo, if you were wondering. Orakpo is better across the board. Jackson is a capable backup, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Right now, I'd grade Jackson out to be about on par with Lorenzo Alexander. To answer your question, I would give Jackson's game a B rating. A great start with the pick 6, and a couple decent pressures, but almost nonexistent for a majority of the game. I can't argue with any of that other than semantics... lol. But I think Jackson will get better with reps. We'll find out quickly if he believes in his press or believes in hard work in a few days. At the end of the day, this team is better with Orakpo on it. I know I said I agree with everything in the OP, but I meant to say that I've thought the two were relatively interchangable. It's clear that Orakpo is a quality player and deserves to play for the Redskins. And as I mentioned in the thread where Orakpo was put on IR... the one good thing that injury does is make him affordable to us during the period where we are weathing these cap penalties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Why is it every time we have depth at a position, someone makes a thread like this?Having quality depth is a GOOD thing, and something that should be encouraged, not traded away. Yes. And in some cases having great depth should be used to bolster weaker areas of your team. I'd agree that if Jackson is simply considered "adequate" by the staff, then there's no reason to mess with a strong position. But if he is considered starter material and not a big drop-off from Orakpo, the team certainly could try to figure out what their price would be for him. Good teams turn players like Orakpo into multiple starters IF they can backfill for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illone Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 All players are expendable except RG3. Every single one. Especially Orakpo. He was drafted in the top 10 and so far has played more like a 2nd rounder. Role player, and a good one, but not a top tier pass rusher like his draft status would expect. I'd consider trading him for a 3-4 round pick and spending $$$ on the secondary positions. Move DHall to FS and find a couple more DBs via FA and draft. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 All players are expendable except RG3.Every single one. Especially Orakpo. He was drafted in the top 10 and so far has played more like a 2nd rounder. Role player, and a good one, but not a top tier pass rusher like his draft status would expect. I'd consider trading him for a 3-4 round pick and spending $$$ on the secondary positions. Move DHall to FS and find a couple more DBs via FA and draft. :2cents: I know I've been posting a lot in here but every time I see a post like this I get really confused. 1. He was drafted 13th 2. He outperformed nearly everyone drafted before him. 3. How can you say he has played like a 2nd rounder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Yes. And in some cases having great depth should be used to bolster weaker areas of your team. I'd agree that if Jackson is simply considered "adequate" by the staff, then there's no reason to mess with a strong position. But if he is considered starter material and not a big drop-off from Orakpo, the team certainly could try to figure out what their price would be for him. Good teams turn players like Orakpo into multiple starters IF they can backfill for them. Edit...not that we SHOULD do it, but there are certainly cases out there to illustrate why we COULD do it. The most obvious is James Harrison replacing Joey Porter in 2007. On the surface, cutting Porter (salary cap) for an undrafted guy who barely stayed active during his first couple years in the league was risky. But, it turned out that the coaches knew what they were doing. I don't know if Jackson is even half the player Orakpo is. I'm not a football coach and don't watch game tape. But, if the coaches are comfortable doing it and strengthening other positions by doing so...I'm on board. That's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins199021 Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 geez skins fans make me so mad. Why is there this dislike of Orakpo? Are we as fans not allowed to like orakpo, kerrigan, and jackson? No You do not trade a pro bowl DE for a draft pick. That is what we call going backwards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakinaiken Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Jenkings is just better. The amount of rush he's getting is right on point. LOL Carriker is what he is a very good back up ...But He'll never start over Jenkings again unless Jenkings gets injured.. FACT!!!!! can't disagree with you more. Jenkins has been a no show- no push in the pocket, and little effect in the run game. to me it's actually, been one the biggest disappointments and it seems to go unnoticed by this board. I realize he's recovering from a knee injury, so ill give him a pass, but he's been startlingly ineffective compared to what I thought he would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTskins Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 That's what the Patriots did with Richard Seymour, and their defense hasn't been the same since.Meanwhile, the Ravens keep players like Ray Lewis, Haloti Ngata, and Ed Reed and their defense continues to play at a high level. Just so I understand, That wasn't the Patriots in the Super Bowl last February? FYI...These are two completely different situations. The Patriots were up against it financially (The Skins will have $18Mil of space whe B.O.'s deal expires) and they had other starters' contracts coming due (See: Wilfork, Vince). On top of that, they fleeced an old man in FUBU gear and a wax pencil from the Jack Tatum days. :cool2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sempre_victrix Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 What is it with you guys wanting to cut great depth from the team? Even if Riley is becoming a great LB, why would we get rid of Orakpo? This season is the poster child for needing depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 geez skins fans make me so mad. Why is there this dislike of Orakpo? Are we as fans not allowed to like orakpo, kerrigan, and jackson?No You do not trade a pro bowl DE for a draft pick. That is what we call going backwards Looking back on it, would it have been going backwards to trade Cooley after 2009? Or would that have been a pretty shrewd move? He was a Pro Bowl TE at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Looking back on it, would it have been going backwards to trade Cooley after 2009? Or would that have been a pretty shrewd move? He was a Pro Bowl TE at the time. Eh...maybe. 1. What would we realistically get in return since he broke his ankle after the Iggles MNF game... 2. We had Fred Davis, who I believe was further along at that point than Rob Jackson is now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Eh...maybe. 1. What would we realistically get in return since he broke his ankle after the Iggles MNF game... 2. We had Fred Davis, who I believe was further along at that point than Rob Jackson is now I have no idea about #1 and you could certainly be correct about #2. The point is, we fans don't know what we have in Jackson but the coaches do. Had the organization traded Cooley for a 2nd and a 3rd after 2009, many here would have lost it. The point is, they would have been dead wrong. You have to make these decisions without emotion. If trading someone of value makes you a better overall team, it should be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 I have no idea about #1 and you could certainly be correct about #2. The point is, we fans don't know what we have in Jackson but the coaches do. Had the organization traded Cooley for a 2nd and a 3rd after 2009, many here would have lost it. The point is, they would have been dead wrong. You have to make these decisions without emotion. If trading someone of value makes you a better overall team, it should be done. I agree definitely... The idea itself isn't crazy...I just think if Rob was the guy, it wouldn't have taken 5 years to figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 I agree definitely...The idea itself isn't crazy...I just think if Rob was the guy, it wouldn't have taken 5 years to figure it out. Probably not...though James Harrison wasn't an instant star either. I don't really care and I actually really like Orakpo, so I'm just more defending the concept than this specific scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chump Bailey Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 I don't think Rob Jackson is anywhere near the athlete Rak is or pass rusher... And I love Rob Jackson - always have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTskins Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 I suppose Brady should have never remained the starter since Bledsoe was for longer, too. I don't know why don't you ask Matt Cassell. You're comparing Apples and Oranges again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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