Obamacare...(new title): GOP DEATH PLAN: Don-Ryan's Express

[NoCalMike]

8 minutes ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

Ha...just turned on CNN and Rand Paul is talking about Group insurance...clearly reading my post from a few hours ago.

 

I think his point was to replace the individual market with group insurance.....makes sense to me.

 

So if the new idea is "groups" then why not just 1 big group called "American citizens?"   

[Riggo-toni]

1 minute ago, LadySkinsFan said:

Gee, Medicare for all?

People pay into Medicare for 40+ years, collect it for 15 - 20, and still draw nearly 150k above what they paid into it. No way our current tax structure is gonna handle people collecting it for 80 years.

It would require a double digit national sales tax, tripling the gas tax...

[SkinsPassion4Life]

Just now, NoCalMike said:

 

So if the new idea is "groups" then why not just 1 big group called "American citizens?"   

 

Is that your way of suggesting single payer?    

[NoCalMike]

9 minutes ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

 

Is that your way of suggesting single payer?    

 

Basically.  I wasn't trying to be coy.  It was just an honest question.

[visionary]

 

[TheDoyler23]

It just seems like this new plan is to remove as many people from healthcare as possible to maybe lower the cost to people whom can afford to pay into the system. So by eliminating the people making claims and then keeping the premiums about the same for everyone else, then profits for insurance companies explode. 

 

In the meantime, lots of negative consequences to those in unfortunate situations. 

 

But none of this addressees why a bypass surgery can be 70 grand in the US, and 5 in another country. None of this addresses how in America, we have insurance companies that demand extreme profits, Medical providers that demand extreme profits, Drug companies that demand extreme profits and vast intellectual property rights to the detriment of all.

 

I'm not saying I have an answer to any of that. But this legislation looks like it'll accelerate the negative aspects of the industry for years to come. And that sucks. 

 

[SkinsPassion4Life]

2 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

 

Basically.  I wasn't trying to be coy.  It was just an honest question.

 

It's just a bad idea....everyone will have care, but it won't be good care....and you'll be waiting months to see a Dr....and you'll be paying even more taxes.....if you think the evil rich people are going to fund it, you're kidding yourself

 

To answer your question....If you only had one group called "citizens", I don't think one private insurance company could handle 300 million people.

Edited June 26, 2017 by SkinsPassion4Life

[NoCalMike]

2 minutes ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

 

It's just a bad idea....everyone will have care, but it won't be good care....and you'll be waiting months to see a Dr.

 

To answer your question....If you only had one group called "citizens", I don't think one private insurance company could handle 300 million people.

 

So why do we need private insurance at all? At least for primary care?   There can still be a place for health insurance in this country, but it would be for things other than primary health care.  Maybe you have a policy that guarantees a private room if you are admitted to hospital?  Upgraded meals? HBO?  

 

 

[No Excuses]

Looking forward to hearing how a bill that strips coverage from millions of people is "reform" that will make the system better.

[Riggo-toni]

Pre-existing conditions can't be covered without also having a mandate.

And throwing 20m people off of insurance/medicare means returning to sick people showing up in ERs with no means of paying, forcing hospitals to raise rates for everything to recoup the costs from those who have insurance...and then we're back to premiums going up up up.

[No Excuses]

2 minutes ago, Riggo-toni said:

Pre-existing conditions can't be covered without also having a mandate.

And throwing 20m people off of insurance/medicare means returning to sick people showing up in ERs with no means of paying, forcing hospitals to raise rates for everything to recoup the costs from those who have insurance...and then we're back to premiums going up up up.

 

Essentially going back to how things were, which prompted the last health care debate and need for reform.

 

Except next time I doubt the Dems will do something similar to ACA. 

 

I look forward to welcoming universal health coverage into our national debate.

[bcl05]

Can someone succinctly say what the argument FOR this bill is?  Other than "its not obamacare"?  

 

I really don't get it. 

 

I'm a physician, and there are plenty of problems with our current health care system.  I can imagine a number of different general strategies that might improve things, but I don't see how this bill makes anything better.  

 

What is the conservative version of an ideal health care system?  

[visionary]

 

[SkinsPassion4Life]

1 minute ago, Riggo-toni said:

Pre-existing conditions can't be covered without also having a mandate.

And throwing 20m people off of insurance/medicare means returning to sick people showing up in ERs with no means of paying, forcing hospitals to raise rates for everything to recoup the costs from those who have insurance...and then we're back to premiums going up up up.

 

You need to have a real mandate...not one that makes people rather pay a penalty then buy healthcare.

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 26, 2017 by visionary

[Riggo-toni]

2 minutes ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

 

You need to have a real mandate...not one that makes people rather pay a penalty then buy healthcare.

Agreed. This bipartisan bill was the best solution, but it was ignored by W, and rejected by Obama who didn't think he could get it to pass. Essentially, employers pay a benefit wage which workers can then choose themselves to allocate as they want between health insurance, retirement savings, vision, dental. Catastrophic insurance is required, and medicaid gets replaced by funds for private insurance. Employers don't pick your insurance, so if you switch jobs you keep the same plan. Get laid off, and you get benefit dollars to retain your insurance as part of your unemployment benefits.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthy_Americans_Act

[visionary]

 

 

 

[twa]

1 hour ago, Llevron said:

Serious inquiry. Is there a reason outside of money that we cannot just give free healthcare to Americans? I feel like we complicate the issue way wayyyy too much. 

 

Money is a big reason, ask Cali 

[SkinsPassion4Life]

If there was a way to have universal coverage and still have excellent care; without increasing taxes even more, I'd be fine with it.

 

You would have to cut Government spending in just about every other area, I would think.   

 

Don't think it's possible.

[Hersh]

46 minutes ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

 

It's just a bad idea....everyone will have care, but it won't be good care....and you'll be waiting months to see a Dr....and you'll be paying even more taxes.....if you think the evil rich people are going to fund it, you're kidding yourself

 

To answer your question....If you only had one group called "citizens", I don't think one private insurance company could handle 300 million people.

 

It's not a bad idea at all if one thinks about a restructuring of the social safety net and the massive jobs program that could be created simultaneously. 

1. Social security could be reduced based on income as SS recipients that spend that money on health care would no longer have to do that.

2. Eliminating monthly premium payments offsets some tax increases

3. Create a jobs program around health care to get significantly more people educated as nurses and doctors so the myth of everyone waiting months for health care would remain a myth. Health care is where the country should be moving with jobs. 

4. There would be no separate systems such as the VA or medicare as we would all have health care guaranteed from cradle to grave.

5. If costs are actually tackled, bills could be reduced significantly. 

[@DCGoldPants]

 

The Foxes say that this new plan for the Hen House looks great.

[visionary]

 

[PleaseBlitz]

1 hour ago, bcl05 said:

Can someone succinctly say what the argument FOR this bill is?  Other than "its not obamacare"?  

 

I really don't get it. 

 

I'm a physician, and there are plenty of problems with our current health care system.  I can imagine a number of different general strategies that might improve things, but I don't see how this bill makes anything better.  

 

What is the conservative version of an ideal health care system?  

 

It cuts federal spending by $321 billion over 10 years (per CBO).  If you want smaller government, and do not give a **** about 22 million people losing their healthcare, then this does that to an extent.  Of course, the federal budget is about $3.65 trillion per year, so that cost savings is less than 1% of federal outlays over that time period.  

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 26, 2017 by visionary

[Corcaigh]

FoxNews leads with the decision of the Supreme Court NOT to take a case on concealed carry.

 

Lower billing is given to the CBO Report: Health bill will cut deficit, boost number of uninsured

 

Boosting the uninsured doesn't sound as bad as increase the uninsured by more than 20 million.