Obamacare...(new title): GOP DEATH PLAN: Don-Ryan's Express

[NoCalMike]

2 minutes ago, ABQCOWBOY said:

When you say, Universal Healthcare is what most Americans want, where is that coming from.  Is there an article or a study you are referring to?

 

Here is a Washington Post poll.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/05/16/most-americans-want-to-replace-obamacare-with-a-single-payer-system-including-a-lot-of-republicans/?utm_term=.abc81963e23f

 

Quote

Well over half of Americans want to replace Obamacare with a single-payer system. That figure, amazingly, includes 41 percent of Republicans and Republican-leaning independents — even though the wording of the question specifies that the program would be "federally funded." (Mind you, more than half of Republicans oppose the idea.)

 

I think the tricky part is when you start getting into what you call "Universal Heath Care"  It has been called so many different things, "Single-Payer"  "Medicare for All"  but the GOP usually sways people away from it the most effectively when they refer to it as "Gov't healthcare"

 

 

Edited June 27, 2017 by NoCalMike

[ABQCOWBOY]

3 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

I think the conversation should probably begin with studies on how much money preventative maintenance care would save the general population.  My understanding is that was one of the biggest selling points of the ACA to begin with, that it would get more people in for routine checkups and procedures that normally would not seek medical care at all until something on their body was painful to the extent of being unbearable due to not having insurance so routine visits were unaffordable, let alone follow-ups, prescriptions, etc etc etc that would come along with routine visits. 

That is a good starting point.   If you don't like the ACA and/or think it should be scrapped totally, then please throw out some suggestions how to get everyone covered at least for primary care.

 

I don't think anyone out there was saying the ACA was without it's flaws, but fixing it's loopholes and short-comings seemed like a good way to bring Dems & the GOP together and be heroes to everyone.  Instead you have the GOP split between this awful piece of legislation and the rest of them who think it doesn't go far enough, sprinkled with a few who also want to get rid of ACA but want to keep the few parts their constituencies are making noise about.  

 

I agree, that would be a good place to start.  The biggest problem with Obamacare, IMO, was that it ignored the biggest obstacle it had in front of it.  It ignored the fact that the facilities and the actual healthcare capabilities were not in place to support the expansion.  It also ignored the fact that Insurance Coverage was not expanded healthcare.  It was expanded insurance coverage. 

 

 

[PleaseBlitz]

3 minutes ago, Cooked Crack said:

I think this bill passes. Only 2 no votes to count on right now. If a 3rd real no vote comes along maybe I'll believe it dying. It would be hard for Collins and Heller to walk back their comments and vote for this turd. The only other pushbacks are this was pushed out too soon or it isn't terrible enough. Most of the Republicans that might be vulnerable aren't up in 2018. I can't see these guys doing the right thing.

 

Yep, they need one more.  I don't believe for a second that the 4 conservatives that claimed "to have issues" are actually serious (Cruz, Johnson, Lee and Paul).  They'll cave.  Shelly Moore Capito and Rob Portman are maybes, they can be bought off with a few billion for opiod abuse.  Lisa Murkowski stated that she "has concerns" and is going to "crunch the numbers" which, after the CBO score, may indicate a willingness to say no.

 

But those are all maybes.  

 

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

4 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

 

Here is a Washington Post poll.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/05/16/most-americans-want-to-replace-obamacare-with-a-single-payer-system-including-a-lot-of-republicans/?utm_term=.abc81963e23f

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting.  Gallup shows a different result.  It actually shows that 49% want to repeal and 47% want to keep.  It will be interesting to see what Americans think, if Obamacare is still in place a year from now.  Financially, this thing is expanding in cost well beyond anything we were promised and the actual care provided is very poor IMO.  I think you might see the numbers polarize over the next few months.

[visionary]

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I think it would be very helpful to know and understand exactly how long it might take to get the ACA to a point where it can actually work the way it was promised and how much more money it's going to take.  How much more of an increase in taxes it's going to take.  At this point, a lot of people are paying more to get less.  I know that this is the case for me.  If this can not be reversed, the ACA is nothing more then what many who opposed it said it would be.  A Government supported healthcare plan that doesn't provide good healthcare and costs too much. 

 

 

[@DCGoldPants]

Right now the slow-to-react Dems should be proposing improvements and fixes to the ACA. Especially knowing the Majority wouldn't even bring it up for discussion or debate. Start with calling out the sabotage. Then pivot to nothing but fixes and tweaks. Focus on things that the AARP would love.Talk about ending breaks and wealthcare for those who need it the least. Tie the ideas that national health is like national defense and infrastructure. Add in incentives for more preventative care that would avoid more expensive treatments down the road. Wrap the whole thing in an American Flag and name it after Reagan.

 

Half kidding about the last part.

[PleaseBlitz]

15 minutes ago, ABQCOWBOY said:

 

Interesting.  Gallup shows a different result.  It actually shows that 49% want to repeal and 47% want to keep.  It will be interesting to see what Americans think, if Obamacare is still in place a year from now.  Financially, this thing is expanding in cost well beyond anything we were promised and the actual care provided is very poor IMO.  I think you might see the numbers polarize over the next few months.

 

Where do you see that?  Most recent poll i can find on Gallup says 55% of Americans approve of Obamacare, 41% disapprove. 

 

http://www.gallup.com/poll/207671/affordable-care-act-gains-majority-approval-first-time.aspx

[LadySkinsFan]

If Congress wants to improve ACA, the can pass a law that forbids the insurance companies from raising premiums. That seems to be the biggest complaint of policy holders.

 

Of course they won't do that because it will cut profits for the companies.

[ABQCOWBOY]

1 minute ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

Where do you see that?  Most recent poll i can find on Gallup says 55% of Americans approve of Obamacare, 41% disapprove. 

 

http://www.gallup.com/poll/207671/affordable-care-act-gains-majority-approval-first-time.aspx

 

I saw it in the link Mike posted.

[@DCGoldPants]

2 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

If Congress wants to improve ACA, the can pass a law that forbids the insurance companies from raising premiums. That seems to be the biggest complaint of policy holders.

 

Of course they won't do that because it will cut profits for the companies.

 

Got the scare them into capitalism and competition. What they have now are sweetheart deals that keep state lines closed. Open those suckers up. Make them earn their $$$.

[LadySkinsFan]

Create public option that is standardized as to forms, non-profit status. That will create competition, which the insurance companies don't want either.

[PleaseBlitz]

2 minutes ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

Right now the slow-to-react Dems should be proposing improvements and fixes to the ACA. Especially knowing the Majority wouldn't even bring it up for discussion or debate. Start with calling out the sabotage. Then pivot to nothing but fixes and tweaks. Focus on things that the AARP would love.Talk about ending breaks and wealthcare for those who need it the least. Tie the ideas that national health is like national defense and infrastructure. Add in incentives for more preventative care that would avoid more expensive treatments down the road. Wrap the whole thing in an American Flag and name it after Reagan.

 

Half kidding about the last part.

 

This is actually happening.  It just gets no traction because people have no patience for discussions about complex policy, they want to talk about fights and how dumb/brilliant Trump is (depending on your perspective).

 

Examples:

 

Comprehensive Addiction and Recovery Act of 2016 https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/senate-bill/524/text

 

http://www.pressherald.com/2016/05/24/sen-king-proposes-fee-on-prescription-opioids-to-fund-treatment-programs/

 

Protecting Affordable Coverage for Employees Act https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/1624/text

 

Hillary Clinton, of course, had a kajillion-point plan to fix the ACA.  Here is just the part for prescription drugs (it's like 4 pages):  https://www.hillaryclinton.com/briefing/factsheets/2015/09/21/hillary-clinton-plan-for-lowering-prescription-drug-costs/

 

 

 

 

15 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

If Congress wants to improve ACA, the can pass a law that forbids the insurance companies from raising premiums. That seems to be the biggest complaint of policy holders.

 

Of course they won't do that because it will cut profits for the companies.

 

Then they'll just leave the market.  

[Corcaigh]

Private versus public; ACA repeal/replace versus fixing is all focused on the wrong problem.

 

Healthcare will increasingly be unaffordable for many Americans, however it's paid for, because of unit costs. 

 

It's not that Americans lead much riskier lifestyles, it's not (entirely) that insurance companies are gouging, it's not that Americans consume health care in a radically different way than our first-world comparisons who have lower costs, better coverage and better outcomes.

 

The key thing is fixing the broken US healthcare system so that it is affordable for all, whatever the funding mechanism, is driving down unit costs.

 

Because of price setting and reimbursement practices in the USA there is essentially no correlation between price and quality. The insurance companies are able to pass on the costs to employers and the consumer of healthcare typically lacks visibility of the whole mess.

 

Maybe a single-payer model would help. But everything being offered by either party is not going to make a real difference in terms of total coverage and affordability..

 

Need an entrepreneur willing to invest many, many billions to find a way to disrupt this mess.

 

[@DCGoldPants]

1 minute ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

This is actually happening.

 

 

They suck at talking about it. Flood the internet and TV with 30 sec bites with different talking points.

[PleaseBlitz]

15 minutes ago, ABQCOWBOY said:

 

I saw it in the link Mike posted.

 

I see.  Mine is from April 2017, his is from May 2016.  Approval of Obamacare has gone way up since it became possible that people would actually lose their healthcare, as opposed to a theoretical exercise in "do you like Obama or not?"  

1 minute ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

 

They suck at talking about it. Flood the internet and TV with 30 sec bites with different talking points.

 

Agree 100%, but its tough when everyone just wants to talk about Trump.   I just heard Joe Manchin on a podcast today, he did a pretty good job of explaining some fixes in his down-home folksy West Virginia way.  

4 minutes ago, Corcaigh said:

 

 

It's not that Americans lead much riskier lifestyles,

 

No?  Seems to me that healthcare is expensive in significant part due to the fact that Americans are extraordinarily unhealthy.  

[visionary]

 

[@DCGoldPants]

8 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

Agree 100%, but its tough when everyone just wants to talk about Trump.   I just heard Joe Manchin on a podcast today, he did a pretty good job of explaining some fixes in his down-home folksy West Virginia way.  

 

1

 

That's the mistake. Trump will talk about Trump. If anything they should be talking about Bannon, Reince, Pence, Kushner as the guys in charge. Don't even engage the Twitter Snowflake King. 

 

Podcasts are great. But too many folks don't listen to them. Short ads that can be shown on TV and online...and then forwarded easily. That's the path here. You're not going to win over Clickservatives and Fake News Truthers. It's not about playing offense against Trumpcare specifically. It's really about pushing your own thing while the McConnell and the Admin are dealing with no's from their own side.

[PleaseBlitz]

1 minute ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

 

That's the mistake. Trump will talk about Trump. If anything they should be talking about Bannon, Reince, Pence, Kushner as the guys in charge. Don't even engage the Twitter Snowflake King. 

 

Podcasts are great. But too many folks don't listen to them. Short ads that can be shown on TV and online...and then forwarded easily. That's the path here. You're not going to win over Clickservatives and Fake News Truthers. It's not about playing offense against Trumpcare specifically. It's really about pushing your own thing while the McConnell and the Admin are dealing with no's from their own side.

 

My only point is that Democrats DO talk about actual plans to fix the issues with the ACA, but they are screaming into a hurricane.  

[ABQCOWBOY]

2 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

I see.  Mine is from April 2017, his is from May 2016.  Approval of Obamacare has gone way up since it became possible that people would actually lose their healthcare, as opposed to a theoretical exercise in "do you like Obama or not?"  

 

The Right is not lying when they say Obama care will fold in on itself if a massive infusion of money is not approved.  Too many insurance companies are pulling out because the Federal Government is no longer subsidizing these Insurance Companies and lets face it, these Insurance Companies were not exactly approving claims left and right.  Their job is to deny claims, not approve them. 

 

According to the CBO, and I will say that I am not a fan of the CBO, 22 million will not have insurance, not health care.  It will also save over 700 Billion over a period of 10 years.   The real question that needs to be asked is how Americans view these two options.  If all you are doing is framing this question in a manner that says, 22 million will lose healthcare, which is not true.  They will no longer be covered by insurance, but that doesn't mean they will lose healthcare, that's an incomplete depiction.  You have to balance it with what it's going to cost going forward and also, what kind of service you are actually going to receive.  That's the only fair way to ask the question IMO.

[Corcaigh]

10 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

No?  Seems to me that healthcare is expensive in significant part due to the fact that Americans are extraordinarily unhealthy.  

 

I think the worst Americans are the worst. But there is significant offset from the healthiest.

 

It may be that here is you go to the doctor and have any type of condition that can be addressed by pharmaceuticals, that will be the recommended course of action as it's practically guaranteed to be help to some extent where as the odds that you Joe Obese won't stick with a diet & exercise regime is much higher.

 

 

 

 

[@DCGoldPants]

2 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

My only point is that Democrats DO talk about actual plans to fix the issues with the ACA, but they are screaming into a hurricane.  

 

I don't know. When I look at the twitter feeds for Dem leadership. They are mostly on Trump. Actually, scanning their feeds now. I don't see anything you're talking about recently. 

[ABQCOWBOY]

3 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

My only point is that Democrats DO talk about actual plans to fix the issues with the ACA, but they are screaming into a hurricane.  

 

You may be right, I can say for a fact that I haven't really heard any viable plans from the left to fixt Obamacare, other then "Raise Taxes".

[TradeTheBeal!]

I see we're back to the semantics merry-go-round again today.

[LD0506]

3 minutes ago, ABQCOWBOY said:

If all you are doing is framing this question in a manner that says, 22 million will lose healthcare, which is not true.  They will no longer be covered by insurance, but that doesn't mean they will lose healthcare, that's an incomplete depiction. 

 

Ohhh, ACCESS! Yeah, they'll have access, we've heard this before. Yanno what? I have "access" to luxurious yachts, builders all over the world will sell me one no matter what I am or believe, I just have to pay the bill.

 

Guess who doesn't own a ****ing yacht