ABQCOWBOY Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 3 minutes ago, Destino said: Quote We absolutely are. We are talking about changes that will take away health care or greatly reduce access to health care for millions of people. I don't think so. I mean, unless you are talking about the elderly or the impaired, which will never lose coverage because that's political suicide, I don't think so. 3 minutes ago, Destino said: Then end taxation entirely because you've just described the entire public system. What do you think funding VA is? That's people paying for others. How do you think we build school in poor neighborhoods? Same thing. No, that's not accurate. Paying for the VA is paying for a contract that each and every one of those soldiers agreed to. That is basically paying for services rendered IMO. That is not at all the same as paying for insurance for other people. Look, we can argue this point all day but clearly, this is the popular view. If it were not, we wouldn't have such a split in popular opinion on this subject. You are always going to have decent if you have one segment of the population carrying the burden for another. That's just how it is. I ask you not to shoot the messenger on this one. Sorry. 8 minutes ago, @SkinsGoldPants said: Collin's remarks can easily be read as, "The Status Quo will never support Turmp". In fact, I seriously think that's what's going to happen with him. He will never enjoy unchallenged support by either side of the Isle because he represents everything that career politicians fear. This has nothing to do with how intelligent the man is or what have you. It's all about the Benjamins IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQCOWBOY Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 37 minutes ago, Destino said: ACA needs some changes, that's clear to anyone that is paying attention. The problem is that politically they can't be seen as making ACA work because they've called it evil and promised to destroy it. They've been campaigning for years on repeal and replace which, once you move beyond the slogans, means moving us to a place closer to where we were before health care reform. That place is not better and politically it is filled with unavoidable land mines. They've painted themselves into a corner and the country is going to suffer under a worse system because of politics. Assuming they eventually manage to pass something. Was better for me. I can say that for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 2 hours ago, twa said: At least you were able to keep your Dr Well, while I had Kiaser for a couple of those years I had to switch my primary. Luckily I'm fairly young and relatively healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 (edited) 43 minutes ago, ABQCOWBOY said: There plan is to pass something in the short term and then replace it with something else IMO. The problem with this logic is that the GOP had seven years to come up with a plan and for seven years they said had a plan. It was just that Harry Reid kept blocking it. Even when he was a minority leader he prevented it from being considered. Come the new election and the GOP controls the executive, legislative, and judicial branches it is clear that they never have had a plan... so the sell job is that rushed a gerryrigged plan out with a plan to fix it later? Anyone who buys that tripe better have some serious health insurance because they're about to suffer from some serious food poisoning. Edited June 27, 2017 by Burgold 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 17 minutes ago, ABQCOWBOY said: I don't think so. I mean, unless you are talking about the elderly or the impaired, which will never lose coverage because that's political suicide, I don't think so. You don't think people will lose coverage. Then what the hell are we talking about here? We are not going to both have our cake and eat it too. 17 minutes ago, ABQCOWBOY said: No, that's not accurate. Paying for the VA is paying for a contract that each and every one of those soldiers agreed to. That is basically paying for services rendered IMO. That is not at all the same as paying for insurance for other people. You realize agreements can be changed going forward and new agreements can be entered into with different groups correct? I'm just making sure. There is absolutely nothing stopping the government from saying the VA is too expensive and telling future enlisted soldiers to pull themselves up by their bootstraps after their service has ended because having one segment of the population suffer so that they can have health care is wrong. (That would be wrong as hell too) Also, I noticed you ignored the second example of building schools. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 13 minutes ago, ABQCOWBOY said: Look, we can argue this point all day but clearly, this is the popular view. If it were not, we wouldn't have such a split in popular opinion on this subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQCOWBOY Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 1 minute ago, Burgold said: The problem with this logic is that the GOP had seven years to come up with a plan and for seven years they said had a plan. It was just that Harry Reid kept blocking it. Even when he was a minority leader he prevented it from being considered. Come the new election and the GOP controls the executive, legislative, and judicial branches it is clear that they never have a plan... so the sell job is that rushed a gerryrigged plan out with a plan to fix it later? Anyone who buys that tripe better have some serious health insurance because they're about to suffer from some serious food poisoning. I don't think they never had a plan. I think they new that it's very hard to take away something from the public once it's been given. This is why Obamacare was so bitterly fought. On the other hand, I don't think for one minute that the Left didn't understand the very same thing. They new once you subsidized healthcare, it would be very difficult to take it away. There is not good answer here. If you keep Obamacare, you end up with a money pit that will eventually fail on it's own or cost so much that quality of life in other areas is effected. If you get rid of it, then you force a certain segment of the population to pay for their own Healthcare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 9 minutes ago, ABQCOWBOY said: Was better for me. I can say that for sure. Do you put your own needs over those less fortunate or the millions of people it granted access to healthcare for? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 (edited) If they "had" a plan then there would have been no complaints from the right or left saying... "They're doing it in secret! No one knows what's in the plan!" Everyone, at least all the GOP Senators and Representatives, would have already been in on the plan. In fact, it's very likely had they really been crafting a plan for seven years... all the differences between a House and Senate plan would have been ironed out long ago. If the only thing blocking the plan was Harry Reid and Obama's veto... the bill should have just sailed through and been signed in January. Edited June 27, 2017 by Burgold 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 1 minute ago, Burgold said: If they "had" a plan then there would have been no complaints from the right or left saying... "They're doing it in secret! No one knows what's in the plan!" Its apparently been a secret for years and the only reason it was is probably the Dems fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQCOWBOY Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 2 minutes ago, Destino said: Quote You don't think people will lose coverage. Then what the hell are we talking about here? We are not going to both have our cake and eat it too. Oh, I absolutely think that people will lose Insurance coverage. I just don't think it will be the elderly or the impaired. It will be others who don't fall into one of those two segments. Quote You realize agreements can be changed going forward and new agreements can be entered into with different groups correct? I'm just making sure. There is absolutely nothing stopping the government from saying the VA is too expensive and telling future enlisted soldiers to pull themselves up by their bootstraps after their service has ended because having one segment of the population suffer so that they can have health care is wrong. Would you support that? I'm guessing you wouldn't because the military is a group you want to help, but like the elderly can get ****ed right? I would not support that but I don't really think it would matter. I don't think that would ever fly. At some point, you gotta have soldiers to carry a rifle and if you go too far with benefits, then nobody will sign up. You try and implement a draft and people will revolt. I don't think that will happen anytime soon but that's just my opinion. 3 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said: Do you put your own needs over those less fortunate or the millions of people it granted access to healthcare for? Lets context this properly here. The needs of my family. I am not alone in this deal, I have four kids and a Wife. It was definitely better before then it is now. For the record, I was one of those millions of less fortunate. I didn't have insurance and that sucked but that's how it was and I certainly don't believe that it was the responsibility of somebody else to provide for me, in that manner. So yeah, that was me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 1 minute ago, ABQCOWBOY said: Oh, I absolutely think that people will lose Insurance coverage. I just don't think it will be the elderly or the impaired. It will be others who don't fall into one of those two segments. So you're ok with the poor, the old, and the impaired dying or facing financial ruin for the the great sin of getting sick. You just happen to doubt the political will exists to doom the old and the impaired. Are you wearing a dark suit and monocle right now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 A bit on the nose..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQCOWBOY Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 6 minutes ago, Burgold said: If they "had" a plan then there would have been no complaints from the right or left saying... "They're doing it in secret! No one knows what's in the plan!" Everyone, at least all the GOP Senators and Representatives, would have already been in on the plan. In fact, it's very likely had they really been crafting a plan for seven years... all the differences between a House and Senate plan would have been ironed out long ago. If the only thing blocking the plan was Harry Reid and Obama's veto... the bill should have just sailed through and been signed in January. First of all, the Obama Administration had a plan and they did all of it in secret. Heck, the Majority Leader, Nancy Pelosi admitted as much when she made the whole, pass it to know what's in it statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 10 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said: Do you put your own needs over those less fortunate or the millions of people it granted access to healthcare for? It's not just about the needs of specific groups, we spend more on health care as a nation and get less of it. The current way of doing things benefits a a minority of the population by costing everyone more. It's **** and we're well past the point where we should all be comfortable admitting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQCOWBOY Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 3 minutes ago, Destino said: So you're ok with the poor, the old, and the impaired dying or facing financial ruin for the the great sin of getting sick. You just happen to doubt the political will exists to doom the old and the impaired. Are you wearing a dark suit and monocle right now? LOL.... That is exactly the opposite of what I posted. Destino, what's going on here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 8 minutes ago, ABQCOWBOY said: Lets context this properly here. The needs of my family. I am not alone in this deal, I have four kids and a Wife. It was definitely better before then it is now. For the record, I was one of those millions of less fortunate. I didn't have insurance and that sucked but that's how it was and I certainly don't believe that it was the responsibility of somebody else to provide for me, in that manner. So yeah, that was me. Do you send your kids to public school? Because there are a lot of taxpayers who don't have kids, or who have kids that have graduated high school long ago, whose tax dollars are funding your kids' educations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQCOWBOY Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 1 minute ago, Destino said: It's not just about the needs of specific groups, we spend more on health care as a nation and get less of it. The current way of doing things benefits a a minority of the population by costing everyone more. It's **** and we're well past the point where we should all be comfortable admitting it. That is certainly one opinion but the reality is that we are not passed it. If we were, this would not be an issue. There is the Star Trek version of life and then there is the reality. We are not at that point, not even close and no matter how many times you or anybody wants to suggest that that is what we should aspire to, the reality is that we are not there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 4 minutes ago, ABQCOWBOY said: First of all, the Obama Administration had a plan and they did all of it in secret. Heck, the Majority Leader, Nancy Pelosi admitted as much when she made the whole, pass it to know what's in it statement. Obamacare's secret process: http://fortune.com/2017/06/27/ahca-less-public-debate-than-aca/ Quote The ACA made it out of committee in the House of Representatives in July 2009, after a month-long markup and 160 Republican amendments. The House didn’t vote on it until November 7th. In 2010, the Senate health committee spent nearly 60 hours over the course of 13 days marking up the legislation that would become the ACA. The Senate Finance Committee held 53 meetings about the ACA and an eight-day markup of the bill, which was the longest markup for the committee in over 20 years. The committee considered 130 amendments and held 79 roll-call votes. There were 44 hearings and public events about the plan in the Senate alone. The bill was signed into law in March 2010, 8 months after it emerged from committee in the House. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQCOWBOY Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 3 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: Do you send your kids to public school? Because there are a lot of taxpayers who don't have kids, or who have kids that have graduated high school long ago, whose tax dollars are funding your kids' educations. Some did, some didn't. Either way, I paid more then my share of taxes and full tuition so while I understand where your going here, it doesn't really change the fact that the bigger picture isn't on the same page as you, where healthcare is concerned. 1 minute ago, PleaseBlitz said: Obamacare's secret process: http://fortune.com/2017/06/27/ahca-less-public-debate-than-aca/ And yet, Nancy Pelosi had no idea what was in the Bill. LOL..... Go figure right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 1 minute ago, ABQCOWBOY said: Some did, some didn't. Either way, I paid more then my share of taxes and full tuition so while I understand where your going here, it doesn't really change the fact that the bigger picture isn't on the same page as you, where healthcare is concerned. People with no kids are SUFFERING because your kids take their tax money to go to school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 4 minutes ago, ABQCOWBOY said: Some did, some didn't. Either way, I paid more then my share of taxes and full tuition so while I understand where your going here, it doesn't really change the fact that the bigger picture isn't on the same page as you, where healthcare is concerned. How is providing education fundamentally different than providing health care? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Two things certain in this life: SUFFERING and taxes. Or I think that's how the saying goes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQCOWBOY Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 1 minute ago, PleaseBlitz said: People with no kids are SUFFERING because your kids take their tax money to go to school. I think your confused, or more to the point, I think you would love to paint me into a corner so that it would be easier for you but deep down, you gotta know that aint gonna happen right? The reality of this is that I did not choose to send my kids to public school, the law demanded that I do so. I mean, yeah, I could have sent them all to private school and I did send those who wanted to go to private school but the law says I have to send them to school or home school them, so I sent them. Remember, it was the Obama administration who supported sending children to public school. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 1 minute ago, TryTheBeal! said: Two things certain in this life: SUFFERING and taxes. Or I think that's how the saying goes... For Washington sports fans, that's exactly how the saying goes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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