Obamacare...(new title): GOP DEATH PLAN: Don-Ryan's Express

[RedskinsFan44]

7 minutes ago, ABQCOWBOY said:

 

And yet, Nancy Pelosi had no idea what was in the Bill.    LOL.....  Go figure right?

See, that's how it's done. Ignore tons of facts because it is far easier to make your point with one quote that lacks context. This is why we are where we are.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

2 minutes ago, Destino said:

How is providing education fundamentally different than providing health care? 

 

Once again, we are confusing healthcare with insurance but thats fine. 

 

Let me try and point out, at least one difference.  Education is k thru 12.  Healthcare is cradle to grave.  That is at least one difference. 

[Destino]

Just now, ABQCOWBOY said:

Once again, we are confusing healthcare with insurance but thats fine. 

 

Let me try and point out, at least one difference.  Education is k thru 12.  Healthcare is cradle to grave.  That is at least one difference. 

Insurance isn't required to provide health care.  It's only still around because republicans favor a private system. 

 

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

1 minute ago, Destino said:

Insurance isn't required to provide health care.  It's only still around because republicans favor a private system. 

 

 

 

The ACA, which is what we are talking about here, requires you to have insurance.  It does nothing, at all, to guarantee you healthcare.   I will tell you this, I do agree with the first part of your statement.  I have insurance and it definitely doesn't provide me with the ability to receive healthcare.  I agree with that.

[ABQCOWBOY]

8 minutes ago, RedskinsFan44 said:

See, that's how it's done. Ignore tons of facts because it is far easier to make your point with one quote that lacks context. This is why we are where we are.

 

 

The reason we are where we are is because each sides views themselves as the hero's in their own stories.   The truth is that there was never any truth to the statement that the Right never had meetings on healthcare issues.  In fact, there have been several over the years.  That, fundamentally, is dishonest.  How can you start from a point in which the first statement is intellectually dishonest and expect to solve anything? 

 

For the record, all of those meetings were not open to the GOP and even if they were, that Bill changed 12th hour.  Folks had something like 12 hours to read, understand and prepare opposition for the changes.  The Bill was introduced late in the evening so unless you stayed up all night, you couldn't even read it all.  That is not an honest position to start any kind of productive discussion from. 

 

I mean, I do understand why the Left doesn't like this but honestly, I don't know how they are complaining about it  They did the same thing to the right when they passed Obamacare.  I am not saying that it's right but I am saying that I have zero compassion for these guys on TV whining about it.  They did this exact same thing.

[PleaseBlitz]

2 minutes ago, ABQCOWBOY said:

 

I mean, I do understand why the Left doesn't like this but honestly, I don't know how they are complaining about it  They did the same thing to the right when they passed Obamacare.  I am not saying that it's right but I am saying that I have zero compassion for these guys on TV whining about it.  They did this exact same thing.

 

You keep repeating this, and it is not true.

 

28 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

Obamacare's secret process:

 

http://fortune.com/2017/06/27/ahca-less-public-debate-than-aca/

 

The ACA made it out of committee in the House of Representatives in July 2009, after a month-long markup and 160 Republican amendments. The House didn’t vote on it until November 7th.

 

In 2010, the Senate health committee spent nearly 60 hours over the course of 13 days marking up the legislation that would become the ACA.

 

The Senate Finance Committee held 53 meetings about the ACA and an eight-day markup of the bill, which was the longest markup for the committee in over 20 years. The committee considered 130 amendments and held 79 roll-call votes.

 

There were 44 hearings and public events about the plan in the Senate alone.

 

The bill was signed into law in March 2010, 8 months after it emerged from committee in the House.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

1 minute ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

You keep repeating this, and it is not true.

 

 

 

Your story, you tell it.

[PleaseBlitz]

1 minute ago, ABQCOWBOY said:

 

Your story, you tell it.

 

HA!  Sorry fella, you are entitled to your own opinion.  You are not entitled to your own history.  

[ABQCOWBOY]

Just now, PleaseBlitz said:

 

HA!  Sorry fella, you are entitled to your own opinion.  You are not entitled to your own history.  

 

But apparently you are.  You post a link that supports a version of history saying all of these meetings took place but you refuse to acknowledge that the bill was rewritten the night before the vote and that less then a full 24 hours was given to review it. 

 

Honestly, are you really trying to have an honest discussion here?  If you were, then you would not even be bringing this up because you know that Obamacare was passed with no support from the GOP.  None, it was all done through Democratic Majority so what difference does having meetings really make?  It was never going to matter and that is why President Obama said, "Elections Have Consequences".  In fact, it was specifically about Obama care and discussion around it.  

[FanboyOf91]

 

[Destino]

28 minutes ago, ABQCOWBOY said:

The ACA, which is what we are talking about here, requires you to have insurance.  It does nothing, at all, to guarantee you healthcare.   I will tell you this, I do agree with the first part of your statement.  I have insurance and it definitely doesn't provide me with the ability to receive healthcare.  I agree with that.

Single payer would be better but Republicans would cry and start implying a civil war might happen over the great tyranny of health care.  In order to provide everyone with insurance and still use the less efficient system of private health insurance, a mandate was necessary or the pools would be filled with higher risk while healthy young people simply went on tempting fate.  That is partially how we arrived at ACA as it exists today and we are talking about how to change it right?  Well we can change it to make it worse for most (as republicans would like) or we can stop wasting time and treasure so that insurance companies can turn a profit and go with a better system.  Which is a long way of saying... health insurance is not required to provide health care. 

 

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

OK guys, it's been cool discussing.  Thanks for allowing.  Headed home so maybe I can stop back by tomorrow.  Take care folks, have a good evening.

[PleaseBlitz]

1 minute ago, ABQCOWBOY said:

 

But apparently you are.  You post a link that supports a version of history saying all of these meetings took place but you refuse to acknowledge that the bill was rewritten the night before the vote and that less then a full 24 hours was given to review it. 

 

Honestly, are you really trying to have an honest discussion here?  If you were, then you would not even be bringing this up because you know that Obamacare was passed with no support from the GOP.  None, it was all done through Democratic Majority so what difference does having meetings really make?  It was never going to matter and that is why President Obama said, "Elections Have Consequences".  In fact, it was specifically about Obama care and discussion around it.  

 

My version of history is actually supported by congressional records.  Yours is supported by what?  Your vague recollection of what Sean Hannity told you happened?  The fact that no Republicans ultimately voted for the law in no way changes the fact that the ACA went through a normal congressional process of debate and committee markups and hearings and amendments over the course of 5 months.  That is not, in your words, "the exact same thing" as McConnell drafting a bill in secret, holding zero hearings or debate, and trying to jam it through within a week and 48 hours after the first CBO score. 

[Destino]

1 minute ago, ABQCOWBOY said:

OK guys, it's been cool discussing.  Thanks for allowing.  Headed home so maybe I can stop back by tomorrow.  Take care folks, have a good evening.

You fought the good fight for your view point and while we disagree I enjoyed it.  Thanks.  

[@DCGoldPants]

 

Bruh

[PeterMP]

24 minutes ago, ABQCOWBOY said:

It was never going to matter and that is why President Obama said, "Elections Have Consequences".  In fact, it was specifically about Obama care and discussion around it.  

 

This isn't true.  This statement was made over the stimulus (and even there Obama incorporated some Republican ideas and so the general meaning of the message is misrepresented).

Edited June 27, 2017 by PeterMP

[tshile]

42 minutes ago, ABQCOWBOY said:

 

The ACA, which is what we are talking about here, requires you to have insurance.  It does nothing, at all, to guarantee you healthcare.  

 

This is just no true.

 

It expanded Medicaid which definitely guaranteed people Healthcare. It put in rules about preexisting conditions, capping premiums on older people, and implemented a mandate. All of which go towards helping guarantee people have healthcare.

 

It set up exchanges to make it easier.

 

If you're talking about quality, the bulk of aca worked by imposing quality care measures on hospital and doctors. Their reimbursements were directly impacted by said measures.

 

If you want to argue about the details, have at it. I can find fault with plenty of the methods they used.

 

To say it did nothing to guarantee healthcare is just false. It means you don't know anything about aca. Which is fine, I suppose, because most people don't seem to know anything about it.

[FanboyOf91]

Man wants his bribe.

[Llevron]

It's pretty wild how they bullied this dude into cooperating

[@DCGoldPants]

We'll see. He has a Republican governor who is providing him cover. 

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 28, 2017 by visionary

[visionary]

 

 

 

[LD0506]

I admire the sheer stamina and fortitude some of y'all have to keep arguing about this subject.

 

Me? I'm just here for the snark 'til something tangible goes down.

 

[Ron78]

Direct Pay Health Care might be the best solution:

 

http://www.netquote.com/health-insurance/news/health-care-membership-fees

 

Eliminate the middle man (commercial insurance companies) and you will reduce the cost of health care.

[AsburySkinsFan]

@Ron78that's how hospitals work in Guatemala, but imagine having to pay $15,000 to leave the hospital. Insurance is just pre-healthcare financing. The problem is that politicians and the healthcare industry aren't doing a damn thing to address healthcare costs, instead they just want to find ways to pay for continually exploding healthcare costs. Republicans wouldn't dream of ever putting rate caps on services because in captialism everyone deserves the right to be able to ransom their neighbor's life for small fortunes.