mistertim Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 I used to think W was bad about accepting blame and taking responsibility for any failures, but Trump takes it to a completely different level. With W I think it was more of a (poor) strategic decision, probably mostly made by others like Cheney, etc. With Trump, it is an absolute personal pathology. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 2 hours ago, clietas said: I thought you liked laws? Oh that's right only certain ones... According to the court expanding is optional....I thought ya'll liked the court? and states rights lately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 You know what I'd like to see? Everybody cut the crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Damn Bernie has been running from camera to camera making the most of this opportunity! And doing a fine job of it, keep up the fight you cranky ole fart (said lovingly as one COF to another), just don't have tea with any Russians. His rhetoric would definitely get him whacked in Moscow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 7 hours ago, Dan T. said: I don't know how you get single payer done. That may have to wait until after the 2018 midterms. Wink. I don't know how to do it logistically. We are a nation of geniuses though and I bet if we think really hard that we can do it. The problem is that a huge industry is going to essentially be destroyed. Thousands, maybe millions will lose their jobs. Insurance brokers, private insurance companies, billing agencies, all sorts. I assume that some may just be absorbed by the government, but a single payer system will probably decimate the private industry. So there's that. If you're empathetic to people trying to feed their kids then you can't help but feel bad. And of course they won't go quietly. 5 hours ago, mistertim said: I used to think W was bad about accepting blame and taking responsibility for any failures, but Trump takes it to a completely different level. With W I think it was more of a (poor) strategic decision, probably mostly made by others like Cheney, etc. With Trump, it is an absolute personal pathology. A couple things. Social media wasn't as widely used and even if it was, I doubt that Bush 2 would've been on it at the rate that Trump is. Hell, Obama wasn't and he was a spry chicken. I think that Bush 2 made HUGE mistakes that set our country back and we shouldn't let him skate so easy by comparing him to Trump. Trump talks a mean game but he hasn't taken us to war with the wrong country or crashed the economy... yet. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Oh, I'm not letting W off the hook for the awful/incompetent mistakes he made and his overall ****ty presidency at all. I still think he was awful. But the lying, blame shifting, etc is something that Trump and his cronies just take to a whole new level, same with Trump's absolute and irreconcilable incompetence. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 2 hours ago, Springfield said: I don't know how to do it logistically. We are a nation of geniuses though and I bet if we think really hard that we can do it. The problem is that a huge industry is going to essentially be destroyed. Thousands, maybe millions will lose their jobs. Insurance brokers, private insurance companies, billing agencies, all sorts. I assume that some may just be absorbed by the government, but a single payer system will probably decimate the private industry. So there's that. If you're empathetic to people trying to feed their kids then you can't help but feel bad. And of course they won't go quietly. This is what I have been saying ever since they were working on the ACA. Millions would lose their jobs. That's one reason why single payer is hard to put into place. Also, the for profit companies will raise a stink, stockholders you know. I thought that they could move to non-profit status, give them a year to reorganize. But how do you placate stockholders? You can't buy them out. I blame the Congress that passed the HMO Act and Nixon for signing it. Has ****ed up medicine for the masses ever since. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 This is where the Dems need better leadership than Pelosi, Schumer, Hoyer. Their narrative needs to be "the ACA is working. But the President and GOP are looking to sabotage it without a replacement." Use images like a trying to drive a car without a steering wheel. Or trying feed a baby with bottle vanishing. Make it clear that they support the ACA and that they will fight saboteurs. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wiggles Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 7 hours ago, twa said: According to the court expanding is optional....I thought ya'll liked the court? and states rights lately I'm not a big fan of either of those. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanboyOf91 Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 9 hours ago, Larry said: I've seen some folks floating the notion that a disgusted Trump, ticked off that the GOP wouldn't give him the Win he needed, decides to try to Make A Deal with the Democrats. And I've got to say that it's a great fantasy, the notion of Trump telling the Tea Partiers to go perform unnatural acts, and he's going to buy some Dem votes, instead. But I don't think there's a remote chance of it happening. (Even if Trump wanted to. And I don't see him wanting to.) In order for Trump to get his Win with bipartisan support, say without the Tea Party, he has to get what, 30 Dem votes, to replace the Tea Party? What's he going to add to The Deal? Mandate that Trumpcare insurance will pay for medical marijuana? Pay for abortions? Single payer? I can't imagine that there's anything Trump can put in his package that would get him 30 Dem votes, that wouldn't cost him 200 GOP votes. Plus, there's the Hastert Rule. No way for him to make a Dem Deal without also making Pelosi Speaker. And there's no way the House GOP will let Trump run them over like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQCOWBOY Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 17 hours ago, justice98 said: Trump is out here hoping Obamacare fails just to prove a point. If it's gonna be the law, make it better, don't openly wish for not to blow up which will hurt people. What kinda president is this? Smh I think what he just tried to pass was exactly what you describe in the above post. I mean honestly, that Bill was still Obamacare IMO. Both sides rejected it. At this point, what other choice is there, other then to let it fail on it's own weight? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 W. Bush's legacy is sealed and there is nothing that Trump can do or will do, that will change that. We are going to live with the mistakes of the Bush presidency for the rest of our lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 I think adding Trump to the equation of what happened yesterday is making this overly complicated. Dirty little secret is this: the GOP is fine letting Obamacare sit, and NOT fail. I think the smart ones in the GOP have figured something very important out; conservative principles cannot improve healthcare solutions in the United States. Can't do it. Good healthcare is about providing care. Good business is about making profit. Can't do both. They know this. It's why they can't actually make a damn bill after all these years. So the GOP has 2 goals on healthcare: 1. Get credit 2. Don't let Dems get credit They've spent a lot of time on #2, but now they have a chance to try on #1, but they know anything they pass will ultimately get worse results if they try to incorporate conservative principles into it. So the moderates flee the conservative bill, as they did yesterday. Conservatives will flee a moderate bill with some non-conservative ideas that actually could improve results. And nothing will get done. And the GOPers who know that #1 is impossible with conservative ideas incorporated will be fine with that. It gives them political cover, so that they don't have to face down angry family of dead people 4 years after TrumpRyanGOPcare passes, who would have lived under Obamacare. Looks bad. Is bad. They don't want it. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Trump's greatest passion in life is improving the welfare of less fortunate Americans. It's all he ever thinks about. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 @DogofWar1 It's my opinion that heath care and capitalism are incongruent ideas, adversarial possibly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 1 minute ago, Springfield said: @DogofWar1 It's my opinion that heath care and capitalism are incongruent ideas, adversarial possibly. Yup. This mostly holds for all necessities, if we assume that a society *should* have a safety net for necessities. And our social contract mostly does that (we keep trying to avoid writing it entirely into the social contract but we keep avoiding striking it out of there too, so it's in there but unofficially). "It takes a village" is a statement about resource allocation and non-profitability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQCOWBOY Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 7 minutes ago, Springfield said: @DogofWar1 It's my opinion that heath care and capitalism are incongruent ideas, adversarial possibly. I actually agree with this line of thought, to a certain extent. In fact, I am amazed that more people don't identify this as the core problem. However, I don't really believe that it's only one side who is chasing the dollar behind this issue. If I look at Obamacare, it's a scheme to make money. The actual service level is very poor. Much worse, IMO, then what it used to be, before Obamacare. What Obamacare really gives is the authority for Insurance Companies to force coverage. It doesn't actually give you healthcare. To me, it's a way to bill somebody for insurance and nothing more. You can make the argument that it provides healthcare for millions of people who would not have it otherwise but I don't really see that. It provides insurance coverage but not actual healthcare. I know that's probably not a very popular idea on this board but that's what I see here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 I wonder if Trump is just talking out of his ass again about Obamacare exploding (as the CBO says it won't) or if he's hinting at their strategy. Maybe the GOP's plan now will be to try and defund as much of Obama care as they can via legislation or even executive orders so that they can CAUSE it to explode and then blame the Dems while cheering behind the scenes (while people are dying because they lost their care under the ACA). Of course, only a bunch of sociopaths would do such a thing. So yeah, my guess is an 90% chance they do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQCOWBOY Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 4 minutes ago, mistertim said: I wonder if Trump is just talking out of his ass again about Obamacare exploding (as the CBO says it won't) or if he's hinting at their strategy. Maybe the GOP's plan now will be to try and defund as much of Obama care as they can via legislation or even executive orders so that they can CAUSE it to explode and then blame the Dems while cheering behind the scenes (while people are dying because they lost their care under the ACA). Of course, only a bunch of sociopaths would do such a thing. So yeah, my guess is an 90% chance they do it. To, the problem with this is that it's really not Trump who is saying that it will fail. It's Insurance Companies who are saying this. At least, that's my understanding. The Right is just repeating that, so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 3 minutes ago, ABQCOWBOY said: To, the problem with this is that it's really not Trump who is saying that it will fail. It's Insurance Companies who are saying this. At least, that's my understanding. The Right is just repeating that, so to speak. Haven't heard that one, but the CBO is saying that it isn't exploding or even on the verge of it. I trust them a bit more than insurance companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 10 minutes ago, mistertim said: Haven't heard that one, but the CBO is saying that it isn't exploding or even on the verge of it. I trust them a bit more than insurance companies. There are two kinds of insurance companies; the ones that are changing with the ACA and working within it and those who pine for the old ways. The ones that pine for the old ways (or want to extract concessions from the government, see: Aetna) keep saying the ACA will fail, but they also actively attempt to sabotage it where they can. On the whole, the ACA would do very well if all the states accepted expanded Medicaid and insurance companies stopped trying to actively sabotage it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQCOWBOY Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Just now, mistertim said: Haven't heard that one, but the CBO is saying that it isn't exploding or even on the verge of it. I trust them a bit more than insurance companies. Yeah, we are probably on opposite sides of the fence there. I mean, the CBO has gotten a lot of this wrong all the way down the line. They said that Obamacare would save money and it hasn't. It's actually increased in cost. CBO has said a lot of things that really haven't panned out IMO. They assume that Insurance Companies will stay in with their projections but that may not be the case. If we agree that Insurance Companies are ain this for the money, then it stands to reason that they will not stay in if there is no opportunity for them to maximize profits. Really, to me this comes down to getting young people to buy in and I just don't feel like that's going to happen. IDK, I'm not an expert on this stuff, I just feel as if the CBO is basing a lot of things on some preconceptions that may not pan out. It's OK that we disagree on this. I can't say with 100% certainty that everything is going to go exactly as planned either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haithman Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Haha if ever there were a tweet that incapsulates that meme of the dog sitting in a burning building it's that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now