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Obamacare...(new title): GOP DEATH PLAN: Don-Ryan's Express

JMS

By JMS
in The Tailgate

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Sacks 'n' Stuff

Sacks 'n' Stuff

Posted
Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

The core value of conservative America isn't small government or American exceptionalism, or adhering to the constitutional system... it's willful ignorance.

Welp... I've stuck my foot in my mouth again. Time to release another statement of apology.

 

I should not have insinuated that Trump supporters and the right wing voting base are all willfully ignorant. For many of them, it's not a choice.

Edited by Sacks 'n' Stuff
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Larry

Larry

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, visionary said:

 

 

I caught part of that rant on Fox.  (While changing a patient.)  Her point was that the entire failure was 100% on Ryan, because he supposedly knew the legislative process and how Washington works, and he should have led Trump to something that worked.  

 

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mistertim

mistertim

Posted
Posted (edited)

I think the problem with that is that it takes lots of time, energy, and focus to come up with a bill of this magnitude that can work and can pass. The ACA took a very long time and went through lots of revisions, deal making (real deal making, not Trump's "do what I say or else" deal making) and outreach to external groups. Trump was having absolutely none of that **** and wanted a bill immediately, because he has no patience, focus, or grasp of the reality of how any of this process works. 

 

I think Ryan was in a weird position. On one hand, he was being offered the thing he's probably been having a wet dream about for a long time...craft whatever damn healthcare bill you want and the president will sign it. On the other hand he also has the reality that it takes time and effort to do this sort of thing. So he either goes to Trump and tells him that and gets yelled at and told everything is off the table and Trump is moving on to something else, or he comes up with whatever hastily thrown together conserva-frankenstein piece of **** bill he can and hope he can get it rammed through with a Republican House and Senate. 

 

I think they're both to blame, really. Trump for being an ignorant, uncompromising douche with no interest in actual policy or the government he partially leads, and Paul for being a different kind of douche (the kind who doesn't care about people going uninsured and dying as long as can give tax cuts to the rich and his Ayn Rand fantasies can come true), for being ignorant of just how much opposition within his own party this would have, and for being a complete coward.

 

 

 

 

Oh, and Nancy Pelosi for being a Democrat.

Edited by mistertim
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Larry

Larry

Posted
Posted

Re:  "It takes a lot of time", . . . . . 

 

They've had seven years.  

 

Heck, they've had seven years, and the benefit of having seven years to look at Obamacare, and to see what the real-world results of it's components have been.  

 

It's not like repealing Obamacare is this notion that just sprang forth, 18 days ago.  The GOP has unanimously voted for it, like 75 times.  

 

This has always been about nothing more than party politics.  It's been "Obama Bad!  Rawr!!!"  

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mistertim

mistertim

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Larry said:

Re:  "It takes a lot of time", . . . . . 

 

They've had seven years.  

 

Heck, they've had seven years, and the benefit of having seven years to look at Obamacare, and to see what the real-world results of it's components have been.  

 

It's not like repealing Obamacare is this notion that just sprang forth, 18 days ago.  The GOP has unanimously voted for it, like 75 times.  

 

This has always been about nothing more than party politics.  It's been "Obama Bad!  Rawr!!!"  

 

That's a good point. If they had actually been interested in crafting something to replace Obamacare, as opposed to just yelling about it for 7 years, they could have had something that had been fully discussed and revised and crafted between House and Senate Republicans and would have a very good chance of passing because of that and they could have plopped it down on Trump's desk day 1. 

 

But yeah, it was all just wanting something to yell at Obama about or demonize him over without having to go through the process of actually coming up with something to replace it. I wonder if that was more just being political and lazy or more because they knew their ideas would likely be very unpopular with the American people.

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Bang

Bang

Posted
Posted (edited)

i dunno,,, maybe it's my ol' dumb self not really understandin' the bill and how gub'mint works and all, but i think the reason it failed was because it SUCKED, and that was pretty much it.

Yo republicans.

Want to see how you can be Republicans again and get rid of all the clanking "conservative agenda"  bull**** that you've tied around your waists?
Look to Larry Hogan. This is a man governing as a Republican, and maintaining his humanity with common sense. This is a man who isn't distracted by all those screaming clowns spreading fear and anger. He isn't playing those games.

 

~Bang

 

Edited by Bang
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mistertim

mistertim

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Bang said:

i dunno,,, maybe it's my ol' dumb self not really understandin' the bill and how gub'mint works and all, but i think the reason it failed was because it SUCKED, and that was pretty much it.

Yo republicans.

Want to see how you can be Republicans again and get rid of all the jackass "conservative agenda"  bull**** that you've tied around your waists
Look to Larry Hogan. This is a man governing as a Republican, and maintaining his humanity with common sense. This is a man who isn't distracted by all those screaming clowns spreading fear and anger. He isn't playing those games. I like him.

 

~Bang

 

 

Oh I agree. The plan was a complete turd. I was more talking about why they weren't able to push it through anyway. 

 

The problem the GOP faces, and this may be the very reason they only screamed about Obamacare as opposed to actually presenting their own full bill, is that deep down they know the majority of Americans simply don't like what they're selling. That or they know that their supporters would happily take the **** the GOP is shoveling but may quickly turn on them once they discover it is **** and not gold, as they were promised and they lose their healthcare, etc. Now, that doesn't matter when it comes to actually getting a bill put into law. But it does matter come election season. And if there is one thing that can trump any ideology of a Congressperson or Senator, it is the possibility of losing their seat.

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Sacks 'n' Stuff

Sacks 'n' Stuff

Posted
Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Bang said:

i dunno,,, maybe it's my ol' dumb self not really understandin' the bill and how gub'mint works and all, but i think the reason it failed was because it SUCKED, and that was pretty much it.

That's what I was kind of hoping at first but it sounds like what actually happened is that the right-wingers who were going to vote against it thought it didn't suck enough.

5 minutes ago, mistertim said:

The problem the GOP faces, and this may be the very reason they only screamed about Obamacare as opposed to actually presenting their own full bill, is that deep down they know the majority of Americans simply don't like what they're selling. That or they know that their supporters would take the **** they're shoveling but may quickly turn on them once they discover it is **** and not gold, as they were promised and they lose their healthcare, etc.

That is definitely not a problem for the GOP. Their base will take whatever **** gets shoveled to them and they will love it. Any negative consequences will be somebody else's fault.

Edited by Sacks 'n' Stuff
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skinny21

skinny21

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

That's what I was kind of hoping at first but it sounds like what actually happened is that the right-wingers who were going to vote against it thought it didn't suck enough.

That is definitely not a problem for the GOP. Their base will take whatever **** gets shoveled to them and they will love it. Any negative consequences will be somebody else's fault.

Absolutely agree with your first point - and it's already lead to the FHC losing a member.  

 

Generally agree with the 2nd point.  I was pleased to hear that some reps seemed to flip to 'no's' in places where there were strong showings by citizens at their offices.  

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