ABQCOWBOY Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 13 minutes ago, Larry said: Again. Blind repetition of the religious dogma that if two paper pushers make $20,000/year pushing paper, the one that works for a company "contributes to the economy" and the one that works for the government "does not do that". Because the private employee pays taxes and spends his paycheck. Trying to deny it is just Republican. Very well. How much in Taxes does the Government actually pay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Just now, ABQCOWBOY said: Very well. How much in Taxes does the Government actually pay? Ah, now we're getting more into things. "Adding to the economy" is now defined as "paying taxes". Oh, and it's only taxes paid by the employer, not by the employee. And we've put the word "actually" in there, in anticipation of trying to argue that employers pay the employer's share of payroll taxes for their employees, but the government doesn't "actually" pay them, right? At least you're putting more effort into it. All to try to religiously support the assertion that, if you take a network of entities whose sole job is to move umpty-ump billion dollars of other people's money from one bucket to another (while keeping part of it, for itself), and replacing it with a government entity that does exactly the same thing, (possibly even including the "keeping part of it, for itself" part), then all of those umpty-ump billions of dollars magically vanish completely from the economy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQCOWBOY Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Larry said: Ah, now we're getting more into things. "Adding to the economy" is now defined as "paying taxes". Oh, and it's only taxes paid by the employer, not by the employee. And we've put the word "actually" in there, in anticipation of trying to argue that employers pay the employer's share of payroll taxes for their employees, but the government doesn't "actually" pay them, right? At least you're putting more effort into it. All to try to religiously support the assertion that, if you take a network of entities whose sole job is to move umpty-ump billion dollars of other people's money from one bucket to another (while keeping part of it, for itself), and replacing it with a government entity that does exactly the same thing, (possibly even including the "keeping part of it, for itself" part), then all of those umpty-ump billions of dollars magically vanish completely from the economy. I would not say that it is "now defined" as adding to the economy. I would say that it has always been defined as such, by me and by the economy. I am not certain why you are looking for an argument on this. It's really pretty cut and dried and I see no point is engaging in argument over it. These entire conversation that you seem to be having with your self is just that. I am not arguing with you on this Larry. This is what it is, if you chose not to accept that, it's cool. I would simply say this, if it were so easy to simply remove Insurance Companies from equation, why hasn't that been done yet? Why hasn't it already happened? Edited March 25, 2017 by ABQCOWBOY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wiggles Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 4 minutes ago, ABQCOWBOY said: I would simply say this, if it were so easy to simply remove Insurance Companies from equation, why hasn't that been done yet? Why hasn't it already happened? Lobbyists? Campaign Contributors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 (edited) I paid $6000 for a Neulasta shot last week, bite on that for a bit. Edited March 25, 2017 by jschuck12001 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQCOWBOY Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Just now, clietas said: Lobbyists? Campaign Contributors? I'm sure that's part of it but when I step back and look at this, that would seem to be a small price to pay, if you are the Federal Government. If you could simply remove the Insurance Companies and step in to that vacuum, how much revenue would you then be generating? How much money would be going into the coffers? I would think that the Government would simply do it because the money you would be talking about would far outweigh Lobbyists or Contributions. Your point is well taken though. On a personal level, I am certain that Insurance Companies are paying handsomely. This kinda brings us full circle on why neither side has ever proposed any kind of solution that eliminates Insurance Companies. Even when each side has held super majorities, that has never been discussed. 8 minutes ago, jschuck12001 said: I paid $6000 for a Lunesta shot last week, bite on that for a bit. Lunesta or Neulasta? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 1 hour ago, ABQCOWBOY said: I don't think I've ever argued that, one way or the other, in this thread. All I'm saying is that Insurance Companies contribute to the economy. Hiring people to work for the Governement do not. You still have to be able to replace that loss. Sorry. I misspoke. My brain left the specific topic. I was referring to universal healthcare in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQCOWBOY Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 26 minutes ago, jschuck12001 said: I paid $6000 for a Lunesta shot last week, bite on that for a bit. If Neulasta, then I fear white blood cell deficiency, which is often associated with Cancer. I hope that is not the case with you. If it is, then I am sorry Brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 (edited) Edited March 25, 2017 by visionary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 (edited) 28 minutes ago, ABQCOWBOY said: If Neulasta, then I fear white blood cell deficiency, which is often associated with Cancer. I hope that is not the case with you. If it is, then I am sorry Brother. Its all good, just wanted to point what happens in the real world when you get one of these diseases, because we have proprietary medicines they will never be covered by health insurance no matter how great of a plan you have. You would think after paying that I could at least spell the name of the medicine correctly. Its Neulasta not the other thing I posted. Edited March 25, 2017 by jschuck12001 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 1 hour ago, ABQCOWBOY said: I don't think I've ever argued that, one way or the other, in this thread. All I'm saying is that Insurance Companies contribute to the economy. Hiring people to work for the Governement do not. You still have to be able to replace that loss. Maybe I'm being obtuse here, but you still have to pay all the doctor's, nurses, lab techs etc., right (under single payer)? And those people will turn around and spend that money in the economy just as they do now. So, what exactly would be the economic changes entailed with the government taking a larger role in healthcare? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQCOWBOY Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, jschuck12001 said: Its all good, just wanted to point what happens in the real world when you get one of these diseases, because we have proprietary medicines they will never be covered by health insurance no matter how great of a plan you have. You would think after paying that I could at least spell the name of the medicine correctly. Its Neulasta not the other thing I posted. Yeah, that sucks. I know what you mean, you pay ridiculous amounts of money for drugs that never seem to be covered by insurance and then you still have to pay for insurance as well. There is a lot about that whole deal that is just completely wrong to me. 6 minutes ago, skinny21 said: Maybe I'm being obtuse here, but you still have to pay all the doctor's, nurses, lab techs etc., right (under single payer)? And those people will turn around and spend that money in the economy just as they do now. So, what exactly would be the economic changes entailed with the government taking a larger role in healthcare? No, that's true but the point is that that is not really inclusive of what Insurance Revenue makes up. So yes, all of that is still there but thats not the part that goes away so it's static. Edited March 25, 2017 by ABQCOWBOY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 now that a little time has passed, the r's are starting to talk out of school and tell stories of the easily believable nature that make trump and posse look bad regarding some of the interactions behind the scenes...main themes as you'd expect have been trump's "stunning" ignorance and disinterest in healthcare as a topic and the bill's contents and how he never talked about or acted like he concerned about how it would actually impact people other politically and that "it would still be better than obama" ....another being how conway and bannon would make big and contradicting promises to different reps from different factions but no one believed them, and how pence seemed to be focused solely on the political importance of the pres needing the win for the gop to hold onto power. and "achieve our dreams in this once in a generation opportunity"..... ...one said don asked him where he was on it and he said i'm a "no" and don looked over to mulvaney and said "why am i tlaking to this guy?" and walked off and it's just been one day 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Still doesn't get how legislature works, thinks he's running a corporation, which is why we shouldn't elect businessmen. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Everything the Trump administration does needs to be documented and the ramifications published widely. And the Democrats need to get with it and make sure that We the People know what's going on and how it affects us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, LadySkinsFan said: Everything the Trump administration does needs to be documented and the ramifications published widely. And the Democrats need to get with it and make sure that We the People know what's going on and how it affects us. What good is that going to do? That voter base and their chosen leaders have no interest in a genuine examination of any facts that could possibly contradict their pre-conceived biases. The core value of conservative America isn't small government or American exceptionalism, or adhering to the constitutional system... it's willful ignorance. Might I suggest that the left consider this course of action in their attempts to persuade the right to work together for the betterment of the nation. 1. Reason with them (if that doesn't work)... 2. Ask nicely (if that doesn't work)... 3. Ask firmly (if that doesn't work)... 4. ****ing destroy those mother****ers. I wouldn't spend too much time on steps 1-3 though. Realistically, you'd be foolish to expect that the vast majority of politicians and voters currently claiming to be Republicans has any intention of getting their **** together before step 4. Edited March 26, 2017 by Sacks 'n' Stuff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 8 hours ago, jschuck12001 said: I paid $6000 for a Neulasta shot last week, bite on that for a bit. We have a $3,600 hospital bill for the birth of our second son. No frills, standard, vaginal delivery. She got an epidural, that's about it. Wasn't even at the hospital for two nights. Im having a hard time wrapping my mind around that one. So there it sits, unpaid. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Yeah, that **** is ridiculous. Bunch of crooks. That's why I've started a new business for people who can't afford these absurd hospital fees. I will perform ANY surgery for only $199.95. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Sanders ready to take another crack at Single Payer. Give em hell, Bernie! http://digital.vpr.net/post/bernie-sanders-introduce-single-payer-health-care-bill-us-senate#stream/0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 9 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said: Yeah, that **** is ridiculous. Bunch of crooks. That's why I've started a new business for people who can't afford these absurd hospital fees. I will perform ANY surgery for only $199.95. I think Dr. Nick is offering a better/cheaper deal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCranon21 Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 42 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said: Sanders ready to take another crack at Single Payer. Give em hell, Bernie! http://digital.vpr.net/post/bernie-sanders-introduce-single-payer-health-care-bill-us-senate#stream/0 This will be interesting to see if the Freedom Caucus(Tea Party loons) will work with Bernie, but I seriously doubt it. If the moderate Republicans have an ounce of intelligence, they will work with Bernie and save face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 1 minute ago, DCranon21 said: This will be interesting to see if the Freedom Caucus(Tea Party loons) will work with Bernie, but I seriously doubt it. If the moderate Republicans have an ounce of intelligence, they will work with Bernie and save face. I don't think the Freedom Caucus will ever be happy, the teabaggers are never going to be ok with subsidies and entitlements so at this point everyone should act as if they don't exist and find your votes elsewhere. Did anyone get a chance to see these bums in the board room during the Healthcare negotiation, they were all shoving food down their face looking like they were ready for their Thanksgiving nap. While this was going on Paul was handing out copies of "Art of the Deal" to each of them. I was hoping this was a Sat Night Live skit but that wasn't the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 (edited) 23 minutes ago, @SkinsGoldPants said: I think Dr. Nick is offering a better/cheaper deal. Who is Dr. Nick? I have no idea what you are talking about. I made that joke up! Edited March 26, 2017 by Sacks 'n' Stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergasun Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 I see a couple folks in here talking about medical costs, and I am going to point you in the direction of Karl Denninger. Sorry for link format as I am on mobile. Yes, I think he is kind've a right wing jerk as far as some of his posts, but I also think he articulates the health care cost like no one else does and has done so for a long time. Basically we need to stop price manipulation and discrimination.... this is the only way to drive competition in and cost down to the more tradition 5% of GDP instead if 18%. The problem with these type of radical ideas is that no one wants to shock the system... which has been festering down this path for 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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