Obamacare...(new title): GOP DEATH PLAN: Don-Ryan's Express

[visionary]

 

[TradeTheBeal!]

4 hours ago, Busch1724 said:

Well we all knew it would be back on the table, it was just a matter of when. I'm surprised it took until now! 

 

Translation:  We are still ready, willing and able to accept large political contributions from the pharmaceutical industry!!

[skinsmarydu]

43 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

Translation:  We are still ready, willing and able to accept large political contributions from the pharmaceutical industry!!

You know, we kill people on a daily basis!  The ones you don't wanna see, the ones you don't think needed help a few years ago!

But we're here for YOU, the real 'Muricans!

[The Sisko]

11 hours ago, skinsmarydu said:

See, that's just the point.  We can't be that party...the one who ****s everything up for 75% just to protect ours.  We don't do that...and why we're considered "suckers" by others who will vote for Trump out of anger, knowing he's going to do absolutely nothing to help...they just wanna screw the Dems and complain about why, why, why me?

You chose him...now defend him, you idiots.

 

We haven't been that party in the past and the GOP is right, it's a sucker's game. We can't afford to be idealistic. The only way I'd even talk with him is if he publicly committed on camera to single payer. I won't hold my breath waiting on that one. I'd rather take something more likely to happen like cold fusion or twa abandoning trolling.

 

56 minutes ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said:

If the Dems dont work w Trump and fill the void, Im afraid the Freedom Caucus might get what they wanted, an even more conservative plan. 

 

I certainly hope so. I think we should let the GOP have its dream of giving the country what it has asked for. If the Dems fall for that one and work on a "bipartisan" plan,   they'll deserve to be banished to the margins.

[skinsmarydu]

14 minutes ago, The Sisko said:

 

We haven't been that party in the past and the GOP is right, it's a sucker's game. We can't afford to be idealistic. The only way I'd even talk with him is if he publicly committed on camera to single payer. I won't hold my breath waiting on that one. I'd rather take something more likely to happen like cold fusion or twa abandoning trolling.

I know, I wanna yell at everyone too...but we're here together.  You know dat.

[LD0506]

1 hour ago, The Sisko said:

I certainly hope so. I think we should let the GOP have its dream of giving the country what it has asked for. If the Dems fall for that one and work on a "bipartisan" plan,   they'll deserve to be banished to the margins.

 

This

 

Give them all the rope they want, coils and coils of it, nooses of the finest hemp that they fashion for themselves. I know it isn't easy, isn't pretty and won't be one damn bit fun but for this to have any lasting positive impact they will have to show the true depths of their uncaring depravity so completely, so intensely that no one will be able to deny it.

 

This country, we as a people will be able to clean up the mess and rebuild what gets lost, but only once this venomous chancre is lanced and drained from the body politic.

[visionary]

 

[The Sisko]

I just realized something. I've taken to referring to the Dems as "we".  Thanks Dump.

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

13 hours ago, The Sisko said:

 

 

 

 

I certainly hope so. I think we should let the GOP have its dream of giving the country what it has asked for. If the Dems fall for that one and work on a "bipartisan" plan,   they'll deserve to be banished to the margins.

 

But isnt that putting politics before the well being of the people? Thats seems Trump-esque to allow a knowingly bad plan to go forward costing ppl health, coverage and death ..... just so it will fail and make Trump look bad. 

 

So the worse the healthcare plan, the greater the detriment to American's health = gooder for Democrats? 

 

Seems like an odd equation to me. 

 

Md Reps have an obligation to go out there and negotiate the best plan they can for the Maryland residents. If Md Reps can secure some kind of benefit for the Md residents by working with Trump vs sitting on the sidelines in protest, I want my Md Reps out there getting Md residents covered. 

[The Sisko]

7 minutes ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said:

 

But isnt that putting politics before the well being of the people? Thats seems Trump-esque to allow a knowingly bad plan to go forward costing ppl health, coverage and death ..... just so it will fail and make Trump look bad. 

 

So the worse the healthcare plan, the greater the detriment to American's health = gooder for Democrats? 

 

Seems like an odd equation to me. 

 

Md Reps have an obligation to go out there and negotiate the best plan they can for the Maryland residents. If Md Reps can secure some kind of benefit for the Md residents by working with Trump vs sitting on the sidelines in protest, I want my Md Reps out there getting Md residents covered. 

In a perfect world, what you say makes absolute sense. However when one has a negotiating partner that refuses to negotiate in good faith, the entire exercise becomes a farce. Ultimately, it becomes an issue of allowing the populace to get screwed quietly or forcing to to happen in a way they'll see and understand. I choose the latter.

 

Since just barely enough people voted for Dump to get him elected, perhaps having a crap plan get passed will change their minds and motivate others to get off their behinds and actually vote, not only against him, but against the congress that put forth this "brilliant" proposal. Due to gerrymandering, voter suppression and other such chicanery, the chances of overturning congress are slim right now. So to force a change, some people need to be made more uncomfortable. Yes, that sucks, but that's where we are. Politically, that means that since they can't or won't recognize it, the American and 'Muricun voting public needs to see exactly what happens when republican orthodoxy is given carte blanche.

[Larry]

18 hours ago, LD0506 said:

The right/rightier/bat**** right wants to repeal, they don't give one large **** about replace.

 

As I read a while back, part of their agenda is for the repeal bill to include a lot of big cuts to Medicaid, years from now. 

 

They want the cuts to happen years from now, so they don't have to deal with voters who are irate over the cuts. 

 

But it the cuts will force the CBO to use those cuts in their scoring. 

 

And, once those cuts (which may or may not actually happen) are built into the models, then they can use that "deficit reduction that hasn't happened yet", to justify the tax cuts, which they want to take effect right now. Without those fictional future Medicaid cuts, it's harder to sell a tax cut. 

[LD0506]

24 minutes ago, The Sisko said:

Due to gerrymandering, voter suppression and other such chicanery, the chances of overturning congress are slim right now.

 

And Sisko wins the morning Scrabble round with "chicanery" triple word score

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

19 minutes ago, The Sisko said:

In a perfect world, what you say makes absolute sense.

 

Shouldnt we be the change that we want to see in the world?

 

I see what your saying but I doubt Trumpcare failings will change the mind of Trump voters. Like Trump said, he could shoot somebody and not lose voters. Any Trumpcare failings will be spun to make it look like a media false narrative or Democrat created problem. 

 

For the next 4 years, we will be sidelined and have many opportunities to stand back and let the Repubs own bad legislation. 

 

But for something like healthcare? Where we could potentially get a few crumbs thrown in there to help the ppl of Md who need and rely on it? Put cheap intangible political wins aside and get an actual tangible political benefit. 

 

Im good, I make good money, in good health, my work reimburses me for the 4k deductible plan we have, etc. so this really doesnt effect me ... but cutting mental health services from medicaid and medicare will effect thousands of Marylanders from Charles County to Balt City.

 

In my last apartment in Balt City, it was mostly section 8 and other assistance and my ex-neighbors need that mental health support. My guy mr. James who lived up stairs by  himself, limited furniture, vietnam vet, ex drug abuser etc ..  he would talk to me about suicide and I saw how ppl would visit him once a month or so to give him positive talks. He said those talks with them and me really helped him to maintain. Stay positive.

 

Lets keep Mr. James alive. hes a great guy, just one of our many forgotten ghosts who just seem to exist and if we dont reach out to him, let him know he is loved, he has things on his calendar to do, appointments to make.

 

A ton of older ppl in Baltimore just exist in their little one bedroom or studio apartment. If not for Mr. james vet benefits, hed be homeless and committed suicide.  

[LD0506]

2 hours ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said:

 

But isnt that putting politics before the well being of the people? Thats seems Trump-esque to allow a knowingly bad plan to go forward costing ppl health, coverage and death ..... just so it will fail and make Trump look bad. 

 

So the worse the healthcare plan, the greater the detriment to American's health = gooder for Democrats? 

 

Seems like an odd equation to me. 

 

Md Reps have an obligation to go out there and negotiate the best plan they can for the Maryland residents. If Md Reps can secure some kind of benefit for the Md residents by working with Trump vs sitting on the sidelines in protest, I want my Md Reps out there getting Md residents covered. 

 

See, in my opinion this is a question of perspective and vision, is it genuinely good for "the well being of the people" to go along with and enable this garbage in a way that allows them to do what they want while spreading the blame? I have come to the conclusion that this entire sick episode is bitter medicine, we will need to collectively hold our noses and gulp it down in order to get better. And by get better I mean come to the realization that these people do not give one large **** whether you or I or anyone else lives or dies. I know that sounds harsh, sounds extreme but we are heading into dark days. Allowing the right to have their way and shoulder the blame for it is necessary for the longterm picture to have any hope of being more positive.

 

I have said it before, people will die, drop ****ing dead as a direct result of what these moonbats want to do. Children will sicken and die from environmental poisons. Old people will wither and die from lack of care. Soldiers will die in horrific fashion from the lunatic "policy" vision of these people. I feel it is contingent upon those that survive to make those lives mean something.

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

Hoping ppl will die and then change their votes from R to D ... is that the basis for not trying to work with Trump to get a slightly better health care plan? I just dont think Trumpcare failing will make Trump voters change their opinions or votes. 

 

Why risk ppl's well being for a potential political gain that I dont think will ever be realized? 

 

Isnt that a Trump approach?

[Hersh]

8 minutes ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said:

 I just dont think Trumpcare failing will make Trump voters change their opinions or votes. 

 

100% disagree. Health care/health insurance is the one issue that will change enough votes that it would switch the direction of the country. When it comes to actually living and dying and getting care, this is the issue above all other issues that are tangible and impact people's lives directly. It's the reason why Trump is at 36% approval, it's the reason their bill got pulled because people are irate over it. You'll see more and more Trump supporters become disillusioned because he massively over promised on health care and people losing health insurance will impact Trump voters. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

1 hour ago, Hersh said:

100% disagree. Health care/health insurance is the one issue that will change enough votes that it would switch the direction of the country.

Health care issues are all dems fault. It's bad... so very bad. I'm the only one that can fix it. They'll come begging me with their dicks tucked between their legs once their kids start dying from Obamacare. Anyone that doesn't die between now and the next election is thanks to me.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[techboy]

4 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Health care issues are all dems fault. It's bad... so very bad. I'm the only one that can fix it. They'll come begging me with their dicks tucked between their legs once their kids start dying from Obamacare. Anyone that doesn't die between now and the next election is thanks to me.

 

Trump impression, but no exclamation points. Sad!

[killerbee99]

So now people want cooperation..... lol.... Where was all this kumbaya **** when Obama was in office. It's about time Dee's start playing the long game... Bcos half of this country doesn't give a flying monkeys ass about the greater good. The only way dems should work with Orange cheeto is if he offers public option.... If not they can tell him to **** off

Edited March 29, 2017 by killerbee99

[The Sisko]

26 minutes ago, LD0506 said:

 

And Sisko wins the morning Scrabble round with "chicanery" triple word score

LOL. Sadly, I don't see that as triple word score worthy so, I guess I'm guilty as charged as being a vocabulary dork.

 

2 minutes ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said:

Hoping ppl will die and then change their votes from R to D ... is that the basis for not trying to work with Trump to get a slightly better health care plan? I just dont think Trumpcare failing will make Trump voters change their opinions or votes. 

 

Why risk ppl's well being for a potential political gain that I dont think will ever be realized? 

 

Isnt that a Trump approach?

 

This is going to come across as being cynical to the point of callousness but **** it. You're right in saying the fallout of allowing the GOP to have their way won't change the minds of the true believers. However if they die off or their communities fail and they have to move to places where their votes get diluted, the end result is the same. With all due respect, your pie in the sky view of "being the change", simply doesn't work. There's a reason that following the old biblical adage about  turning the other cheek rarely happens in real life. 99.9999% of the time the end result is that you get your other cheek slapped and end up standing there looking stupid. Obama learned that lesson the hard way, though a bit too late, I'm afraid.

 

Please don't think that I just don't care about people, even the ones I disagree with. I have a niece and a god daughter that I love very much both of whom have bipolar disorder. My sister-in-law has lupus and is on Medicaid and full disability. I'd imagine a cut to benefits might result in some very bad outcomes for one or more of them. Likewise, having worked in healthcare for a long time, many of my friends are older and hitting retirement age and would probably be negatively affected by a lot of this nonsense. And of course all of us will be impacted by breathing dirtier air, increasing income inequality, loss of privacy and the continued movement back to the days of the robber baron. Unfortunately, historically it has taken things getting really bad for people in this country to reverse this kind of thing, after which we get a few decades of something better before the old lessons are lost and the cycle repeats. I'm just saying we know where this is going so let's just cut to the chase and get it over with.

 

 

[Hersh]

I also disagree with the idea that the Dems shouldn't work with Trump to improve/fix issues with Obamacare. They absolutely should be willing to fix issues and if things improve, keep referring to it as Obamacare. 

[@DCGoldPants]

23 minutes ago, Hersh said:

I also disagree with the idea that the Dems shouldn't work with Trump to improve/fix issues with Obamacare. They absolutely should be willing to fix issues and if things improve, keep referring to it as Obamacare. 

 

 

That's fair. But they should be upfront about improving it. Not repealing or replacing anything. If that's a non-starter for the admin. Then that's their problem. There is already something in place that is better than the two proposals which have been pulled.

[Hersh]

1 minute ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

 

That's fair. But they should be upfront about improving it. Not repealing or replacing anything. If that's a non-starter for the admin. Then that's their problem. There is already something in place that is better than the two proposals which have been pulled.

The Dems have been talking about ways to improve it in their caucus. That has been made public so the WH knows. 

 

[@DCGoldPants]

Just now, Hersh said:

The Dems have been talking about ways to improve it in their caucus. That has been made public so the WH knows. 

 

 

 

That's the rub. Right? The Admin and Majority have promised to get rid of the ACA. If they aren't going to move from that to improving it. Then how do you start?

[visionary]