Would you (and your partner) consider abortion due to the possibility of birth defects?

[Springfield]

My wife brought this subject up to me, after reading this story. I figured it would make for interesting conversation among the ES'ers. Naturally, I'm sure it will probably break down into a pro/anti abortion conversation. What the hell, I'll give it a try and see if we can get along.

My what if...

Say your wife, or you, becomes pregnant. You both have full intentions of having a baby. Somewhere along the line, you find out that your child to be is likely to be deformed, mentally deficient, etc. Does one then start to consider abortion as a viable option or do you take the risk and hope that the child comes out "normal"?

[RedskinFeathers]

Wouldn't change my mind. It would be helpful to find out in advance so "we" could prepare for him/her.

But no, I wouldn't have an abortion.

Edit: I just read the article. Makes me sad that they would do that, but I'd be a little more than upset if the doctor didn't tell me. Did he fake the reports or something? Or did it somehow not show up (is that even possible)?

Also, I feel so bad for that poor girl. Everyone is going to know they wanted to abort her. Can't imagine living with that. Love you too, Mom and Dad.

[Kosher Ham]

I would certainly take it into consideration. I would probably feel more guilty about the quality of life and the stress involved.

I can't say for sure, but I would guess that we would abort and never try again.

I knew a family when I was a teenager and they had 4 children, 3 of which had problems. After the first two I was wondering to myself why they where being so selfish (continuing to reproduce), as an adult I look at it somewhat differently. None of the children had mental issues and the 2 I knew personally were really cool. But man it was tough for them.

[twa]

your what if doesn't apply to me/us (my wife would likely need to terminate any pregnancy unfortunately) , but rather unlikely as a hypothetical from past discussions between the wife and I.

Which life is not worth living?....which life needs taking based on a possibility?

my daughter had a high risk pregnancy a few months back...Holding him this week reafirms my belief that if it is not a either/or situation that erring on the side of life is best.

Mercy killing is best left to the merciful

[CrypticVillain]

We had a case about this in my ethics class. Honestly, I don't know what I would do if I was in the situation. I am completely against abortion, but if I knew that my child would struggle to live for the rest of their life, I don't know if I can take them suffering like that. This is the area about abortion that I try not to think about. Even though for some people, it is a harsh reality.

[skins_fan1982]

I would certainly take it into consideration. I would probably feel more guilty about the quality of life and the stress involved.

.

AGREE 100%.

my wife and i had that conversation and we would absolutely consider it.

Hoping to not be quoted and judged....

[AsburySkinsFan]

No, my wife and I had to ask ourselves this same question while she was pregnant with our two children as the doctors asked each time if we wanted to perfom the amnio. For us the ONLY benefit would be to know earlier and to prepare ahead of time, but it we knew that we would not consider abortion under any circumstance, so we chose both times to not have the proceedure.

[gbear]

I can't read the original web page (blocked for security issues with site), but I can guess some of it from the posts. My wife and I foster (adopted2), medically fragile kids. I've seen kids who can't see and others who will be lucky to graduate high school even given the utmost of care. I am betting reading the article makes my wife and my logic easier to accept. I've told many a friend through the years, "We are lucky. We get to know much of what is wrong with a kid before we ever decide to take him/her into our house. Most parents have to take what they are given."

All of this being said, I also know the costs associated with raising a special needs kid. The costs are ever so much more than the insane medical bills accompanying the multiple trips and days off for the doctors' visits. The costs are ever so much more than sleepless nights. They are even more than the loss of close friendships as one tends to socialize more with kids' friends' parents, and with delays comes the changing of friends even more quickly than most. I would completely understand the decision to abort.

[Forehead]

I'd probably consider it more than my wife would, her family is much more religious than mine so I don't believe she would want to have an abortion under any circumstance beyond the "threat to the life of the mother" possibility. As for me, I look at it more like KH does, would there be any quality of life? And I could be wrong, but doesn't that amnio procedure have a possibility of harming the fetus? Luckily, we've never had to worry about it; both of our kids came out healthy and without issues so far.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Boy this is a tough one. To me there are so many considerations to take into account....

Do I believe that I can provide what this child might need? Will providing what this child might need (including the cost, time commitments, limitations, etc.) impact the quality of life of my other children? How comfortable will this special needs child be...can he or she live a relatively normal life or will it be a constant, daily struggle?

I think that I would love to be able to say that I'd be in favor of having the child and doing anything it takes to raise him or her. But, without really knowing the actual scenario or situation and what it would mean for potentially the rest of our lives, I can't say that for sure.

[gbear]

This thread goes hand in hand with http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/03/opinion/brooks-respect-the-future.html

In that case a man kills his wife who has Alzheimer’s. Then he kills himself. I find the story fascinating and was tempted to start a thread just for it, but I think a lot of it ties in here. I have tremendous respect for his care for his wife, yes I include her death as well. I am sad he took his own, but I have seen too many people fade fast after the loss of a significant other. I find myself unable to do much more than hope they are still together. Maybe he thought it was the only way to be together as the one he loved had already moved on to wait for him.

[USS Redskins]

I have an 8 year old boy with Downs Syndrome. Its very difficult sometimes, no question. He has had all the major problems that goes with Downs - heart operations, etc.. He has very low immunity, too, so he gets sick allot and that lead to an auto-immune infection/disorder (what they used to call rheumatic fever) that pretty much robbed him of the ability to learn- though after 2 1/2 years he is finally turning that around very slowly. It's been extra hard on him and our family.

He has been a trooper through it all -the doctors visits, fighting with the schools who dont want to bother with him, the operations and medicines and there are still a million things wrong with him but I wouldnt trade him for the most perfect kid in the world.

When he runs and plays with the kids at school or the park and the look of joy on his face - thats what makes all the hard work worth it.

We did not have an amnio test and the honest truth is that I didnt want to know - I was going to love the kid no matter how imperfect he would be. He was our first and we didnt have amnio's for our other children either.

I actually feel sorry for people who think denying a child life because he or she is not perfect is doing the child a favor. It's pretty close to Hitlers ideas of the master race if you ask me.

Its not easy raising a child with special needs, to be sure. I grew up with a brother with severe cerebral palsy and my older brothers boy has a severe case of autism. We joke sometimes that we are being picked on. But I was raised to be a man and deal with the hand you have been dealt, and not run away.

Babies are disposable as used kleenex in our society - and when its an imperfect one, that involves some extra hard work, the poor things dont stand a chance. Its really sad.

I dont want any credit or anything for this (my wife deserves most of it anyway)- its just my job as a father and human being.

[renaissance]

I support abortion rights but I cannot imagine personally justifying aborting a child for something like that.

And yes, I spent two summers working with special needs teenagers so I've seen firsthand the highs and lows and extreme challenges that go along with raising a child with down syndrome, severe autism, and severe physical disabilities. I guess for me, what is the stopping point where a perceived problem or disability is enough to warrant an abortion?

[Stadium-Armory]

My wife and I are pro-life, but wouldn't choose it for our selves.

During our first pregnancy, we had the standard battery of tests done. The one that checks for spina bifida and downs syndrome came back "positive" for downs. We decided to have the baby, and today we have a healthy happy 10 year old boy. We concluded that if you aren't willing to do anything about the test, don't bother having it done and so for our next three children, we chose to skip it. It can only serve to provide you with anxiety and stress - unless of course you're willing to act on the results (which we were not).

[TD_washingtonredskins]

And yes, I spent two summers working with special needs teenagers so I've seen firsthand the highs and lows and extreme challenges that go along with raising a child with down syndrome, severe autism, and severe physical disabilities. I guess for me, what is the stopping point where a perceived problem or disability is enough to warrant an abortion?

First off, I commend you for donating your time like that. I too volunteer with children who have special needs (it's easy though as I work with the Special Olympics so I'm not doing hands-on therapy or anything like that) and it's very, very rewarding for me.

Also, USS, your post is great and really shows us all what people should strive to be like (I'm not being sarcastic).

Having said that, I don't think it's as cut and dry for each and every person. Should everyone have it in them to donate their lives and the lives of their family members to helping a child with special needs? Yes. But that's not reality.

I would like to think that I would go ahead and do whatever it takes to raise a special needs child. Hell, I do whatever it takes to raise the two kids I have now, so I don't think I'd see it differently if I were put in that situation. I just don't think it's a clear-cut "yes" without some serious thinking.

It's expensive in both time and money. Taking my wife and myself out of the equation, am I being fair to my son and daughter when I am suddenly taking a lot of time away from them? Do two lives not measure up to improving a third? I'm not trying to be dramatic and don't know the answers to these questions...but these are the things I'd struggle with before just going through with it. I'm simply being honest.

[zoony]

I think only if the baby or mother's life were in danger, or if the deformation/retardation was severe. Then it would certainly be a conversation, I think it would have to be. Otherwise, not at all.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I think only if the baby or mother's life were in danger, or if the deformation/retardation was severe. Then it would certainly be a conversation, I think it would have to be. Otherwise, not at all.

How do you define severe?

[bcl05]

I'm a geneticist (physician specializing in kids with syndromes, malformations, etc). I see lots of families dealing with these kinds of decisions. My wife and I talked about these issues a bunch when she was pregnant, and fortunately never had to face them in reality. I think there are few decisions harder and more personal. When I am counseling families facing scary prenatal results, I try very hard to just give them the necessary information and not push them one way or another. I am convinced that none of us who haven't really faced those kinds of things really know what we would do. Given what I have seen, I think there are a few disorders where I think the most loving and kind thing to do is to end suffering as quickly as possible. I don't think Down syndrome comes anywhere close to meeting that threshold, for our family. I have seen a number of families who were staunchly anti-abortion, who, having watched children die of terrible, untreatable diseases with lots of suffering, have chosen to do prenatal testing and end pregnancies after prenatal testing confirmed the diagnosis.

Regarding the case in the OP, if a physician specifically withholds information to reduce a family's options, I think that is despicable. I've seen that happen a few times. Its not clear to me what exactly happened in that case, though. There are many cases of Down syndrome that are not detected by the typical non-invasive screening methods (amnio or CVS are the only ways to know for sure). The diagnosis is often a surprise after birth.

[Teller]

My wife and I decided not to have such testing done, simply because abortion wasn't an option for either of us. Fortunately, we were blessed with two beautiful, healthy, absolutely amazing daughters.

[twa]

Before the choice to have a child they should fully recognize the risks inherent in that choice imo

Even with all the tests ,and having a 'normal' healthy child...it is FAR from certain they will remain that way.

Don't even start to put your foot on a path you are unwilling to trod is my advice(there are NO guarantees), I share uss redskins distaste for eugenics

[adam@section118]

Interesting that this thread came up today.

[i am paraphrasing below]

I heard a story the other day about a lady who had a baby, and the whole pregnancy the doctor told her the baby was a mess. The baby was missing everything below the stomach, and all intestens and everything was hanging out of the babys stomach.

The dr. told the lady that she needed to consider her health, and the lady was a Catholic who said she would have the baby no matter what.

The baby was born, and lived for 2.5 - 3 hours.

To the best of my knoweldge, the lady survived the pregnancy, never heard if she had another child

[Stadium-Armory]

There are many cases of Down syndrome that are not detected by the typical non-invasive screening methods (amnio or CVS are the only ways to know for sure). The diagnosis is often a surprise after birth.

Another thing for potential parents to consider is the accuracy of the non-invasive tests. As I understand it, the results are based on where you place in a range. Ours just barely crept in to the range for downs, and so our doctor handed us a results sheet that said: "Positive for Downs". We were initially shaken, until we educated our selves on how these tests worked. Our 10 year old is healthy and happy, and it occurs to me that if doctor's don't educate potential parents on how to interpret test results, and parents to take the initiative them selves, then uninformed decisions will be made with potentially terrible consequence.

[bcl05]

if doctor's don't educate potential parents on how to interpret test results, and parents to take the initiative them selves, then uninformed decisions will be made with terrible consequences.

Very true. Many OBs (and other non-geneticist physicians) don't have good training in genetic tests or genetic screening. These tests are complex and not straightforward. I spend a lot of time helping people interpret these tests, often correcting misinformation picked up elsewhere.

[gbear]

I just wish more people knew going in to the special needs parenting what will really be needed. So often, our anticipation is so very far off when it comes to the experience. It's easy to think about money and time. My wife quit her full time nursing job, which from a financial standpoint is at least a moderate ouch...and the state pays us, so for others it's an even bigger hit. It's easy to resign yourself to doctor's appointments. They come with every kid, and in truth a few more or less shouldn't be the deal breaker.

What nobody seems to say is the isolation or at least relative isolation. We went to Disney world this year with our neighbors who have kids the same age. It was great, but while there it sinks in a little the extra amount of work it really is. Between the addictive tendencies to be countered to the quickly tired to the panic attacks over very small random details, it was frequently a case of looking at the other family, and saying, "I wish we could be ready to go with you, but that's not really going to happen no. We'll catch up at X."

It's the knowing you wouldn't hire you for a job requiring full concentration every moment of every working day because you are always on call/not well rested.

It's having less in common with your friends when it comes to parenting stories. Parenting is itself an isolating existence. Parenting of special needs kids is more so. That said, there is a tendency for parents of special needs kids to band together. The differences end up being what we talk about rather than the things our kids do that every kid does at that age. It's a little wierd to bond over difference rather than common experiences.

[wysknz1]

When my mom was 50 she became pregnant. (my dads) Carried it full term. Born without a rectum, large intestine, webbed fingers toes. no esophagus and a small heart and lungs. My little brother Michael died after 21 hours. They knew he would be severely deformed before he was born and made the decision to have him. To this day I respect their decision to allow the possibility of this life to be. I like to think if faced with the same I would do the same.