The Walking Dead Season 7 --Discuss material from the Walking Dead and Talking Dead TV shows ONLY.

[Mr. Sinister]

10 minutes ago, nonniey said:

He'll last two seasons -  not forever.

Gimple and  Kirkman were asked about that specifically, and mentioned that this is something that is going to have ripple effects for a long time. 

I said at least two seasons because they weren't specific in how long they planned to flesh this out, but everything they said strongly hints at a very long standoff between these two.

You don't go to the lengths they did to show how much of a merciless game changing savage Negan is, only to kill him off like the Governor.

Lots of moving parts here

[Destino]

Ricks crew ran into Negens group several times and should have known they'd pulled a tigers tail before they all got taken.  

- They blew up a group of bikers with Abe's rocket launcher that called themselves Saviors and said all their stuff now belongs to Negen.  Must have been at least 10 of them, all armed and organized there.  

- Rick plots a preemptive strike on the Saviors and they kill at least 10 more at the compound.  Again well armed and organized.

- Maggie and Carol get kidnapped during the compound attack by four Saviors and taken to a slaughterhouse.  They had a fall back location, communication equipment, and were able to summon reinforcements.  Not something a small band of baddies tend to have.  Unaware that Carol is Death's mortal instrument, the four die along with their reinforcements.  Another 10 or so dead?

- They fought them on the train tracks where Dr. Denise Cloyd dies.  Another 10 or so?

they've now killed or encountered about as many Saviors as Ricks group has in total, perhaps more, and there is no end to the Saviors attacks and no sign of their leader or main encampment.  The Saviors are also evidently more organized than Ricks group holding several locations and having a chain of command.  At this point it's painfully clear that they've bitten off more than they can chew and it was time to call a meeting to fortify or flee.  Rick makes some noise about locking down the camp..... But instead Carol leaves, Rick leaves to follow her, Daryl goes out for vengeance, and Glenn follows Daryl.  Essentially everyone in this well lead group does whatever they want right when the lions are at the gates.  ..and that sets the stage for the ambush which Rick drives right into it.

Rick sucks at his job.  Elect Maggie or Carol.  #ImWithHer.

[Gamebreaker]

I think Negan chose to kill Abraham very early in his speech and well before his little show of eenie meenie minny moe. If look at the night as a whole, Negan's goal was to crush any resistance to his rule through fear. He can't see that you fear him, you either need to be taught to fear him through the brutal killing of your loved ones or simply eliminated all together. There is a moment when he's looking at the group, and they all kinda cower away from him....except Rick, Abraham, and Daryl. He actually smirks at Abe when he paused at him. 

Abe was sitting tall, staring him down the whole time. He's not the leader, so he was expendable. Daryl was already injured, so not a threat at the moment. And Rick needed to be taught to fear him. So Abe gets Lucille, and when Daryl stepped out of line, Glenn took the punishment for him. Negan doesn't want to leave RIck with anyone who may convince him to resist, so he takes Daryl with him as a Game of Thrones style hostage. Which removed what he thought was the last strong willed person Rick has. He has no clue about how dangerous Carol and Morgan are. Or what he may have done to Maggie after killing Glenn. 

I wonder how long it will take for Rick to fight back, and how long it will take for Negan to realize he can't use Alexandria...he's gonna have to wipe it out. 

[Mr. Sinister]

18 minutes ago, Destino said:

Ricks crew ran into Negens group several times and should have known they'd pulled a tigers tail before they all got taken.  

- They blew up a group of bikers with Abe's rocket launcher that called themselves Saviors and said all their stuff now belongs to Negen.  Must have been at least 10 of them, all armed and organized there.  

- Rick plots a preemptive strike on the Saviors and they kill at least 10 more at the compound.  Again well armed and organized.

- Maggie and Carol get kidnapped during the compound attack by four Saviors and taken to a slaughterhouse.  They had a fall back location, communication equipment, and were able to summon reinforcements.  Not something a small band of baddies tend to have.  Unaware that Carol is Death's mortal instrument, the four die along with their reinforcements.  Another 10 or so dead?

- They fought them on the train tracks where Dr. Denise Cloyd dies.  Another 10 or so?

they've now killed or encountered about as many Saviors as Ricks group has in total, perhaps more, and there is no end to the Saviors attacks and no sign of their leader or main encampment.  The Saviors are also evidently more organized than Ricks group holding several locations and having a chain of command.  At this point it's painfully clear that they've bitten off more than they can chew and it was time to call a meeting to fortify or flee.  Rick makes some noise about locking down the camp..... But instead Carol leaves, Rick leaves to follow her, Daryl goes out for vengeance, and Glenn follows Daryl.  Essentially everyone in this well lead group does whatever they want right when the lions are at the gates.  ..and that sets the stage for the ambush which Rick drives right into it.

Rick sucks at his job.  Elect Maggie or Carol.  #ImWithHer.

Yeah Rick did kinda **** that up a bit

[Mr. Sinister]

13 minutes ago, Gamebreaker said:

I think Negan chose to kill Abraham very early in his speech and well before his little show of eenie meenie minny moe. If look at the night as a whole, Negan's goal was to crush any resistance to his rule through fear. He can't see that you fear him, you either need to be taught to fear him through the brutal killing of your loved ones or simply eliminated all together. There is a moment when he's looking at the group, and they all kinda cower away from him....except Rick, Abraham, and Daryl. He actually smirks at Abe when he paused at him. 

Abe was sitting tall, staring him down the whole time. He's not the leader, so he was expendable. Daryl was already injured, so not a threat at the moment. And Rick needed to be taught to fear him. So Abe gets Lucille, and when Daryl stepped out of line, Glenn took the punishment for him. Negan doesn't want to leave RIck with anyone who may convince him to resist, so he takes Daryl with him as a Game of Thrones style hostage. Which removed what he thought was the last strong willed person Rick has. He has no clue about how dangerous Carol and Morgan are. Or what he may have done to Maggie after killing Glenn. 

I wonder how long it will take for Rick to fight back, and how long it will take for Negan to realize he can't use Alexandria...he's gonna have to wipe it out. 

13 minutes ago, Gamebreaker said:

I think Negan chose to kill Abraham very early in his speech and well before his little show of eenie meenie minny moe. If look at the night as a whole, Negan's goal was to crush any resistance to his rule through fear. He can't see that you fear him, you either need to be taught to fear him through the brutal killing of your loved ones or simply eliminated all together. There is a moment when he's looking at the group, and they all kinda cower away from him....except Rick, Abraham, and Daryl. He actually smirks at Abe when he paused at him. 

Abe was sitting tall, staring him down the whole time. He's not the leader, so he was expendable. Daryl was already injured, so not a threat at the moment. And Rick needed to be taught to fear him. So Abe gets Lucille, and when Daryl stepped out of line, Glenn took the punishment for him. Negan doesn't want to leave RIck with anyone who may convince him to resist, so he takes Daryl with him as a Game of Thrones style hostage. Which removed what he thought was the last strong willed person Rick has. He has no clue about how dangerous Carol and Morgan are. 

I wonder how long it will take for Rick to fight back, and how long it will take for Negan to realize he can't use Alexandria...he's gonna have to wipe it out. 

Good points. I forecast before the season started that this season would be about Rick doing Negans bidding. Of course, being an alpha, even in defeat, he's not gonna take this lying down, though for now he will do as he is told, to protect the group and form a new strategy. I bet when Morgan and Carol get back, they tell him about the Kingdom, and Ricks lightbulb goes on. He wants to form new alliances, and maybe convince the Hilltop to fight back too

[Gamebreaker]

Another thing, the psychological warfare Negan waged on them was deep. Take the Glenn killing. Daryl attacked him, after he already told them any resistance was going to cost them. Now he could've given Daryl that Lucille beating, but what would that have accomplished? It doesn't teach the rest of the group a lesson. It just tells them if you want to attack Negan, you better take him out before he takes you out. Negan, who's done this to countless groups already, has probably learned that people are more willing to sacrifice their life than the lives of their loved ones. 

So instead of killing Daryl, he kills Glenn. So that the rest of the group knows any resistance whatsoever will result in the people you care about being brutally murdered right in front of your face. AND YOU HAVE TO LIVE WITH THAT. It's a harsher lesson to teach, and when you have people with wives, children, etc,. The risk is often too much for them to bear. 

11 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

Good points. I forecast before the season started that this season would be about Rick doing Negans bidding. Of course, being an alpha, even in defeat, he's not goAnna take this lying down, though for now he will do as he is told, to protect the group and form a new strategy. I bet when Morgan and Carol get back, they tell him about the Kingdom, and Ricks lightbulb goes on. He wants to form new alliances, and maybe convince the Hilltop to fight back too

Yeah, I can see an alliance being made between the three groups before the mid-season break. 

[Mr. Sinister]

Another thing I thought about and mentioned, is Rick being forced to go on runs and raid other smaller settlements. Possibly even side by side with Negan. Though he basically destroyed Rick, I think Negan deep down admires how hard Rick fought against him, and sees value in Rick, bordering on newfound emotions once Rick starts proving his worth as Negans best raider, and the effect it has on Rick and Negan's subordinates.

Interesting to think about

[twa]

You would think Jesus would have had an idea of how strong Negan's group was.

Ignorant, or just wanting to suck Rick's group into the suck?

[Mr. Sinister]

1 minute ago, twa said:

You would think Jesus would have had an idea of how strong Negan's group was.

Ignorant, or just wanting to suck Rick's group into the suck?

I think he saw right away that Ricks group might have what it takes to take Negan down.

 

[nonniey]

What is all this about Morgan being dangerous? He is skilled but I wouldn't say he is anymore dangerous and probably less so, than the average member of Ricks group.  Morgan is a weak replacement for Tye as the moral foundation of the group not an additional heavy hitter. 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

@Gamebreaker I thought the same thing about him choosing Abe early. The eenie meenie miney moe stuff was just more pshycological warfare and terror on the group. Abe was always the easy target and sent the loudest message being the largest and most physically threatening of the group. 

Also, agree about killing someone else as consequence for another's actions. It causes resentment, dissension, guilt and just tons of trauma. That's also why it was so important for Negan to break Rick in front of his group. Turn their fearless leader into a terrified, sobbing yes man cronie. Important for the group to see that. 

  

[Gamebreaker]

16 minutes ago, nonniey said:

What is all this about Morgan being dangerous? He is skilled but I wouldn't say he is anymore dangerous and probably less so, than the average member of Ricks group.  Morgan is a weak replacement for Tye as the moral foundation of the group not an additional heavy hitter. 

We saw what Morgan was capable of in the Clear episode. And though he has been passive since then, he hasn't been in any danger of being killed by anyone. He's actually so capable a fighter that he can afford to be non-violent, as very few people are capable of taking him out. Of course, he could be shot just as easily as the next person. But Morgan hasn't since the level of brutality Negan is presenting, and since he's already taken a life to save Carol, I could see him going back to his old ways and turning Alexandria into a death trap for anyone willing to attack it. 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

42 minutes ago, twa said:

You would think Jesus would have had an idea of how strong Negan's group was.

Ignorant, or just wanting to suck Rick's group into the suck?

I wondered about this too. He had to know he was bringing them into this mess and did it anyway, selfishly.

----

i guess my big question is...why don't they just leave? If that happened to me? I'm only down 2 people and Daryl..sucks about Daryl but let's be serious, sometimes you gotta leave a man behind. I'd get back to Alexandria pack up everything I could and ride as far away as I could get. No shame in taking the L one time and starting over. 

[Gamebreaker]

1 minute ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

I wondered about this too. He had to know he was bringing them into this mess and did it anyway, selfishly.

----

i guess my big question is...why don't they just leave? If that happened to me? I'm only down 2 people and Daryl..sucks about Daryl but let's be serious, sometimes you gotta leave a man behind. I'd get back to Alexandria pack up everything I could and ride as far away as I could get. No shame in taking the L one time and starting over. 

I don't think Fake Jesus was being selfish, I just think he also underestimated who the Saviors were. He comes from a fairly underpowered community, where it looks like he was the only member able to defend himself. He likely figured they were as big as they revealed to them, just like Rick did. 

And as far as leaving, when you emasculate a leader like that. I dunno, I would think they'd most likely go their own ways then stay together after they left the area. 

[TheGreatBuzz]

11 minutes ago, Gamebreaker said:

And as far as leaving, when you emasculate a leader like that. I dunno, I would think they'd most likely go their own ways then stay together after they left the area. 

I think 6 years into a world like this, going your own way is a pretty quick death sentence.  Supplies have already been picked over and dangerous groups have now formed and are roaming/patrolling.  You'd be picked up quickly or starve.  If it was only a year or so into it, maybe.  At this point, not a good idea.

[twa]

16 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I think 6 years into a world like this, going your own way is a pretty quick death sentence.  Supplies have already been picked over and dangerous groups have now formed and are roaming/patrolling.  You'd be picked up quickly or starve.  If it was only a year or so into it, maybe.  At this point, not a good idea.

 

yeah they almost died getting to Alexandria with the whole crew, w/o Daryl,Abe and Glenn it ain't gonna be easier

not to mention the others off wandering.

add

how come they haven't bothered to salvage that truck full of food that sunk?

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

So.....was this show ever good?

[ThomasRoane]

2 hours ago, Mr. Sinister said:

Lol I gave ****nuts a shoutout on the last page. Greatest curse word ever.

 

Yeah, we should all tweet that to @Redskins the next time we see Matt Jones take the field!

[Destino]

So where are all the animals and why aren't the survivors eating them?  Did they ever explain that?  It certainly isn't because the loud smelly slow things are catching them.  I get that cows would be done for, but these zombies wouldn't stand a chance of wiping out the rabbit population.  

I ask because suddenly so much has become about finding food.  

[Mr. Sinister]

1 hour ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

I wondered about this too. He had to know he was bringing them into this mess and did it anyway, selfishly.

----

i guess my big question is...why don't they just leave? If that happened to me? I'm only down 2 people and Daryl..sucks about Daryl but let's be serious, sometimes you gotta leave a man behind. I'd get back to Alexandria pack up everything I could and ride as far away as I could get. No shame in taking the L one time and....

Rick Grimes never runs from a fight

[Mr. Sinister]

12 minutes ago, Destino said:

So where are all the animals and why aren't the survivors eating them?  Did they ever explain that?  It certainly isn't because the loud smelly slow things are catching them.  I get that cows would be done for, but these zombies wouldn't stand a chance of wiping out the rabbit population.  

I ask because suddenly so much has become about finding food.  

Well first there's the whole "Woodlands of Alexandria" thing that I have yet to recover from.

Also, "Hey so there's no cure, but maybe we should umm, check out exactly what might be left in the most powerful city on Earth (DC). We might, you know, be able to find some attack drones or some **** just sitting in a pristine warehouse somewhere? Anybody? 

Sigh

[ThomasRoane]

2 hours ago, Mr. Sinister said:

Good points. I forecast before the season started that this season would be about Rick doing Negans bidding. Of course, being an alpha, even in defeat, he's not gonna take this lying down, though for now he will do as he is told, to protect the group and form a new strategy. I bet when Morgan and Carol get back, they tell him about the Kingdom, and Ricks lightbulb goes on. He wants to form new alliances, and maybe convince the Hilltop to fight back too

 

Don't forget, Eugene knows how to make Ammo.  Which should come in very handy in a Zombie Apocalypse. Eventually, ammo and gasoline will grow scarce.  Negan would have to widen his sphere of influence for resources making it harder to keep everyone under his thumb.  So with the Hilltop's blacksmithing skills and the Kingdom's mastery of cavalry time could be on Rick's side. 

[Mr. Sinister]

1 minute ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

Don't forget, Eugene knows how to make Ammo.  Which should come in very handy in a Zombie Apocalypse. Eventually, ammo and gasoline will grow scarce.  Negan would have to widen his sphere of influence for resources making it harder to keep everyone under his thumb.  So with the Hilltop's blacksmithing skills and the Kingdom's mastery of cavalry time could be on Rick's side. 

Unless Negan makes him squeal like a piggy and give up the goods.

With as bad as everyone's emotionally got shattered, any slight bit if pressure might make him sing like a canary

[ThomasRoane]

10 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

Well first there's the whole "Woodlands of Alexandria" thing that I have yet to recover from.

Also, "Hey so there's no cure, but maybe we should umm, check out exactly what might be left in the most powerful city on Earth (DC). We might, you know, be able to find some attack drones or some **** just sitting in a pristine warehouse somewhere? Anybody? 

Sigh

 

I'd be worried that too many competitors would be thinking the same thing.  I wonder if they will be able to keep any of their weapons or will the Saviors take them all?  Last season Maggie talked about hiding some just in case.  So they may have a little bit stashed but not enough to fight off the Saviors without a strong alliance and a carefully planned operation. 

12 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

Unless Negan makes him squeal like a piggy and give up the goods.

With as bad as everyone's emotionally got shattered, any slight bit if pressure might make him sing like a canary

 

After Abraham was beat down I think we'll see an even tougher Eugene.  He had already reached level 2 after all

[Destino]

12 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

Well first there's the whole "Woodlands of Alexandria" thing that I have yet to recover from.

Also, "Hey so there's no cure, but maybe we should umm, check out exactly what might be left in the most powerful city on Earth (DC). We might, you know, be able to find some attack drones or some **** just sitting in a pristine warehouse somewhere? Anybody? 

Sigh

They've had many chances to score military equipment and showed relatively little interest.  Remember all the stuff laying around outside of the CDC?  Negan's road block would have gone differently had Rick been following the RV in an armored vehicle with a couple gernade launchers riding shot gun.  If you're going to put up walls, might as well build up the armory.