WP: Arab response to bin Laden’s death muted

[SkinsHokieFan]

Some very very good news

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/war-zones/arab-response-to-bin-ladens-death-muted/2011/05/02/AF69WLcF_story.html

BEIRUT — A decade ago, the Middle East might have responded to the killing of Osama bin Laden with anti-U.S. fury. But with the region convulsed by mostly peaceful popular revolutions, the response to his death has been muted, another signal that the old Arab order is being swept away.

For this new generation, the young Tunisian who set himself on fire and ignited a revolution is a bigger hero than bin Laden, whose vision of martyrdom and jihad has been replaced by more prosaic aspirations such as free elections, good governance and an end to corruption.

“You will see protests for freedom and democracy, yes. But for Osama bin Laden? Definitely not,” said Mustafa Alani, director of the Security and Terrorism Studies Program at the Gulf Research Center in Dubai.

In the Arab world, he said, al-Qaeda was “already dying.”

“The timing of Osama bin Laden’s death has just been perfect,” said Abdulkhaleq Abdulla, a professor of political science at Emirates University. “Osama was one of the leaders — an inspiration to some — that were behind the misery, defeats and stagnation that the Arab world has been going through.”

Now, he said, “his death adds to the modern, moderate and democratic Arab world that is currently in the making. This new Middle East is in sharp contrast to those who defined it before this year of change. Osama was an important force, but this is his end.”

In Syria, the latest Arab country to be caught up in the turmoil, a student protester in the northern coastal town of Baniyas said people there were celebrating bin Laden’s death. “We are very happy that he was killed because he is a terrorist and we don’t like violence,” said the student, whose name is being withheld for his safety.

Link for rest

[Bang]

That's music.

Sweet music.

~Bang

[ixcuincle]

I saw some angry protesters on the news but other than a few seconds of that the reaction has been highly muted

Most of the reaction from the world is positive

[thebluefood]

That's so friggin' beautiful.

Hopefully, this means we can shut the book on this whole thing and send our guys and gals in uniform back home.

[The Brave Little Toaster Oven]

We are living in a great time full of history being made

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

The times they are a-changin'

[Metalhead]

This is the best news I've heard so far in regards to Bin Laden's death, even greater than America's response of fleeting patriotism.

This may be more valuable to the Middle East than we realize, which could very well prove to be a greater victory for all.

[bcl05]

The world is palpably changing for the better. Great stuff.

[Teller]

Syria??? Seriously??? WOW!!! :applause:

I look forward to the day when that young man's name won't have to be withheld "for his safety," but this sweeping change in the Middle East is drastic and legitimate.

Many Middle Eastern citizens, my favorite being Iran, are very pro-western ideas; if not fully pro-west. I wish for all peace-loving people in the region to see a day when wars are no longer fought there because of tyrannical idiots, or oil-hungry ones.

May the one God we all pray to richly bless them, and grant them peace and liberty.

[#98QBKiller]

Great article. Thanks for sharing SHF.

[stevenaa]

Great to hear. It truly is an amazing time in history. We've sufferred great loss in the last 10 years in that region. It would sure be nice to see a postive change. While the populace of those nations will drive the ultimate change, our presence has had an affect.

[GetWrecked]

This isn't shocking for those who understand the majority of people in those countries over there. They do not hate the west, that is a fact. The vast majority of people over there are respectful and great individuals. But you would never know, because when are those people allowed to have pro-west or pro-democracy demonstrations? The governments in a second turn their arms on their own people if they ask for freedom. I still to this day shake my head and cannot believe that there is still much anti-Arab and anti-Muslim views by Americans and many other Western members of society after that horrible day in September and how people can be shocked that those overseas are not happy that bin laden has finally bit the dust.

As your President mentioned last night, Osama Bin Laden has mass murdered millions of muslims as well, he was not a representation of that religion or way of life, but a representation of the extremists point of view. It's like watching that show Lockdown on National Geographic and seeing a child rapist/murderer reading the bible. Does that mean all Christians are like that? I may have gotten a little off topic but whatever. Just wanted to let that out, and no I am not accusing anyone in this thread of being prejudice or uneducated or what not. If it seems that way my sincerest apologies.

[Riggo-toni]

Zarqawi was extremely popular in Jordan...until his group hit targets within his own country. Frustrated by the difficulty of hitting US targets, Al Quaeda cells over the last several years have been striking against secular targets within their own countries which to an almost instantaneous evaporation of their popular support. Al Quaeda is no longer thought of as simply anti-crusader/imperialism/American, which were resonating themes on Arab streets. Now they're remembered for being the a-holes who bombed the local market or gov't office.

[bird_1972]

Arab Spring - possibly the most important event to happen to the region in the last 30 years.

We can only hope it results in real change but we must also be patient as long lasting, stable transformations always take a long time to come to fruition.

Who knows, the Tunsian who burned himself in protest could become a symbol for years to come, tragic as it was.

[jpyaks3]

Arab Spring - possibly the most important event to happen to the region in the last 30 years.

We can only hope it results in real change but we must also be patient as long lasting, stable transformations always take a long time to come to fruition.

Who knows, the Tunsian who burned himself in protest could become a symbol for years to come, tragic as it was.

I would say its the most important thing to happen to the region in a lot longer than 30 years. The Arab Spring has largely destroyed the way of thinking that was Bin Ladens bread and butter the revolutions in Egypt and Tunisia killed Bin Laden and his ideology more than we ever could or can.

[JohnLockesGhost]

Some very very good news

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/war-zones/arab-response-to-bin-ladens-death-muted/2011/05/02/AF69WLcF_story.html

As Tip O'Neill said: All politics is local.

You sort of lose interest in gradiose global movements when the sewer is repeatedly backing up.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

As Tip O'Neill said: All politics is local.

You sort of lose interest in gradiose global movements when the sewer is repeatedly backing up.

There's a really cool scene in Malcolm X where Elijah Muhammad is teaching Malcolm how to preach. He has two glasses of whater. In one he pours ink, he explains that if you give someone a dirty glass of water, they will drink it if they are thirsty enough. But if you offer them a clean glass and the dirty glass, they will choose the clean glass.

It's possible that what is happening in the Middle East is an example of that. If you lived under these regimes and thought that the only option for "change" was the one offered by Al Qaeda, you would be sympathetic to that. If your choices are suddenly Al Qaeda on one side and Tahrir Square on the other, Tahrir Square is far more attractive. Even if the resultant government is not ideal from a Western perspective, the fact that you can institute a change without resorting to the nihilistic ideology of Bin Laden is remarkable.

[pjfootballer]

Many Middle Eastern citizens, my favorite being Iran, are very pro-western ideas; if not fully pro-west. I wish for all peace-loving people in the region to see a day when wars are no longer fought there because of tyrannical idiots, or oil-hungry ones.

With the internet, 24 hr news and such, some of these countries that were shut off from the western world because of lack of technology are finally seeing things in truth about the west that was not told to them before. They see everyone with cars, homes, etc. and peace in their lives and they want some of that.

[twa]

still a lot of work to do

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/05/egypts-muslim-brotherhood-sticks-with-bin-laden/238218/

The Muslim Brotherhood's response to bin Laden's death may finally end the mythology -- espoused frequently in the U.S. -- that the organization is moderate or, at the very least, could moderate once in power. This is, after all, precisely how Muslim Brothers describe their creed -- "moderate," as opposed to al-Qaeda, which is radical. "Moderate Islam means not using violence, denouncing terrorism, and not working with jihadists," said Muslim Brotherhood youth activist Khaled Hamza, for whom the organization's embrace of "moderate Islam" was the primary reason he joined.

Yet the Muslim Brotherhood's promise that its "moderation" means rejecting violence includes a gaping exception: the organization endorses violence against military occupations, which its leaders have told me include Iraq, Afghanistan, Chechnya, Bosnia, and Palestine -- in other words, nearly every major conflict on the Eurasian continent. "I never fought in Afghanistan," Mehdi Akef, the former Supreme Guide of the Muslim Brotherhood, told me in January, just before the revolt. "But I encouraged them and sent money to Bosnia and Palestine until now." Muslim Brotherhood leaders have endorsed attacks on Israeli civilians as an exception to their no-violence-except-against-occupation exception, viewing all of Israel as an occupation. "Zionism is gangs," said Akef. "It's not a country. So we will resist them until they don't have a country."

The attacks of September 11, 2001, however, created a real problem for the Muslim Brotherhood's paradigms, since it was a violent attack against civilians on territory that could not be considered occupied. Rather than denounce the attacks, however, the organization chose to argue, outrageously, that Islamists were not responsible.

[Mickalino]

With the internet, 24 hr news and such, some of these countries that were shut off from the western world because of lack of technology are finally seeing things in truth about the west that was not told to them before. They see everyone with cars, homes, etc. and peace in their lives and they want some of that.

They want 5 bucks a gallon for gas ?

[jpyaks3]

still a lot of work to do

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/05/egypts-muslim-brotherhood-sticks-with-bin-laden/238218/

The Muslim Brotherhood's response to bin Laden's death may finally end the mythology -- espoused frequently in the U.S. -- that the organization is moderate or, at the very least, could moderate once in power. This is, after all, precisely how Muslim Brothers describe their creed -- "moderate," as opposed to al-Qaeda, which is radical. "Moderate Islam means not using violence, denouncing terrorism, and not working with jihadists," said Muslim Brotherhood youth activist Khaled Hamza, for whom the organization's embrace of "moderate Islam" was the primary reason he joined.

Yet the Muslim Brotherhood's promise that its "moderation" means rejecting violence includes a gaping exception: the organization endorses violence against military occupations, which its leaders have told me include Iraq, Afghanistan, Chechnya, Bosnia, and Palestine -- in other words, nearly every major conflict on the Eurasian continent. "I never fought in Afghanistan," Mehdi Akef, the former Supreme Guide of the Muslim Brotherhood, told me in January, just before the revolt. "But I encouraged them and sent money to Bosnia and Palestine until now." Muslim Brotherhood leaders have endorsed attacks on Israeli civilians as an exception to their no-violence-except-against-occupation exception, viewing all of Israel as an occupation. "Zionism is gangs," said Akef. "It's not a country. So we will resist them until they don't have a country."

The attacks of September 11, 2001, however, created a real problem for the Muslim Brotherhood's paradigms, since it was a violent attack against civilians on territory that could not be considered occupied. Rather than denounce the attacks, however, the organization chose to argue, outrageously, that Islamists were not responsible.

Uh that last part of the the article you quotes is bull****

Muslim Brotherhood, an opposition Islamist group in Egypt, said it was "horrified" by the attack and expressed "condolences and sadness":

"[We] strongly condemn such activities that are against all humanist and Islamic morals. ... [We] condemn and oppose all aggression on human life, freedom and dignity anywhere in the world."

Al-Ahram Weekly Online, 13 - 19 September 2001, http://web.archive.org/web/20010915023839/http://www.ahram.org.eg/weekly/2001/551/fo2.htm

http://www.unc.edu/~kurzman/terror.htm

If he can't even get the Muslim Brotherhoods response to September 11th even close to correct how can we expect a fair article from him.

EDIT: Also the Muslim Brotherhood simply reiterated that they were against violence in all forms with their statement on Bin Ladens death. This article is devoid of quotes because he needs to misinterpret and misrepresent them to make his point.

[greenspandan]

still a lot of work to do

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/05/egypts-muslim-brotherhood-sticks-with-bin-laden/238218/

The Muslim Brotherhood's response to bin Laden's death may finally end the mythology -- espoused frequently in the U.S. -- that the organization is moderate or, at the very least, could moderate once in power. This is, after all, precisely how Muslim Brothers describe their creed -- "moderate," as opposed to al-Qaeda, which is radical. "Moderate Islam means not using violence, denouncing terrorism, and not working with jihadists," said Muslim Brotherhood youth activist Khaled Hamza, for whom the organization's embrace of "moderate Islam" was the primary reason he joined.

Yet the Muslim Brotherhood's promise that its "moderation" means rejecting violence includes a gaping exception: the organization endorses violence against military occupations, which its leaders have told me include Iraq, Afghanistan, Chechnya, Bosnia, and Palestine -- in other words, nearly every major conflict on the Eurasian continent. "I never fought in Afghanistan," Mehdi Akef, the former Supreme Guide of the Muslim Brotherhood, told me in January, just before the revolt. "But I encouraged them and sent money to Bosnia and Palestine until now." Muslim Brotherhood leaders have endorsed attacks on Israeli civilians as an exception to their no-violence-except-against-occupation exception, viewing all of Israel as an occupation. "Zionism is gangs," said Akef. "It's not a country. So we will resist them until they don't have a country."

The attacks of September 11, 2001, however, created a real problem for the Muslim Brotherhood's paradigms, since it was a violent attack against civilians on territory that could not be considered occupied. Rather than denounce the attacks, however, the organization chose to argue, outrageously, that Islamists were not responsible.

i don't know anything about the Muslim Brotherhood, and this article seemed intent on keeping it that way. all i learned is that this guy doesn't like muslims.

[Thiebear]

Zarqawi was extremely popular in Jordan...until his group hit targets within his own country. Frustrated by the difficulty of hitting US targets, Al Quaeda cells over the last several years have been striking against secular targets within their own countries which to an almost instantaneous evaporation of their popular support. Al Quaeda is no longer thought of as simply anti-crusader/imperialism/American, which were resonating themes on Arab streets. Now they're remembered for being the a-holes who bombed the local market or gov't office.

I believe this is the 65% major factor: but you also have to add in whats been seen due to the internet:

US saves Kosovo and Bosnia and Kuwait and protects the north of Saudi Arabia.

US blows Iraq away in just a couple days but then gives it back to a mixed Congress (maybe they did just want to stop the Hussein family).

Afghanistan is going the same route with people seeing our boys and girls out there are not monsters.

Our military forces are seen to help more often than not even more than their home countries police.

Egypt, Libya started shouting in the streets for the US to get involved...

the regular people seem to understand.

[twa]

i don't know anything about the Muslim Brotherhood, and this article seemed intent on keeping it that way. all i learned is that this guy doesn't like muslims.

I can give ya more by others if ya wish...when there is a disconnect between what is said to the Arab audiences and the English ones it tends to raise doubts...but then the Brotherhood is a very diverse group.

I look forward to them allaying any doubts by word and deed.

meanwhile there are other unequivocal supporters of Osama to look at

[MattFancy]

Its weird how much has changed in the ME in the last few years, hell even months.