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Tunisian Revolution and the Middle East--And Now, The Withdrawal From Afghanistan (M.E.T.)

jpyaks3

By jpyaks3
in The Tailgate

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daveakl

daveakl

Posted
Posted
Just now, PleaseBlitz said:


Do you think that’s it?  I know it’s hard for Americans to understand a person actively wanting a religious fundamentalist government, but that is what the majority of middle eastern countries have. As soon as our military left, the country fell in a week, you really think people there don’t want the Taliban?

I think a lot do not. But I also get the mentality of keeping your head down and working to get your family out to a better situation. You could make a pretty good argument that about 1/3rd of our elected officials are religious fundamentals. 

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PleaseBlitz

PleaseBlitz

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, daveakl said:

I think a lot do not. But I also get the mentality of keeping your head down and working to get your family out to a better situation. You could make a pretty good argument that about 1/3rd of our elected officials are religious fundamentals. 


A fair point and I think probably well over 1/3 of our elected officials. I think it’s up for debate, and I don’t think Afghanistan is “governed” or “governable” in the same sense as the US, but I suspect most Afghanis are cool with the Taliban taking over. And I am a ****ing atheist, the Taliban is abhorrent to me. 

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daveakl

daveakl

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:


A fair point and I think probably well over 1/3 of our elected officials. I think it’s up for debate, and I don’t think Afghanistan is “governed” or “governable” in the same sense as the US, but I suspect most Afghanis are cool with the Taliban taking over. And I am a ****ing atheist, the Taliban is abhorrent to me. 

I still doubt its "most". Maybe 20~30%? But then say maybe 10~20% are totally opposed to it and willing to die to stop it and the other 50-70% just want to stay alive.

 

 

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tshile

tshile

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, tmandoug1 said:

Afghanistan will be in a civil war within 6 months. Get our people and our stuff out and let them do what they have always done. Just keep a wary eye on who comes and goes. Simple right?

The panjshir stuff is interesting what little we known

 

maybe the government has to fall so the people make something they’ll fight for 

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daveakl

daveakl

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:


What are you basing that on?

My kids elementary school has a fairly large middle eastern population. Listening to them talk about where they are from / what they have been through. But its also a lot of 1st generation or families that are still working to become Americans so maybe its a distorted view. I dont know to many Taliban sympathizers here tbh. Lol

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PleaseBlitz

PleaseBlitz

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, daveakl said:

My kids elementary school has a fairly large middle eastern population. Listening to them talk about where they are from / what they have been through. But its also a lot of 1st generation or families that are still working to become Americans so maybe its a distorted view. I dont know to many Taliban sympathizers here tbh. Lol


Yea. I guess i want to hear from people that live in Afghanistan. 

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Renegade7

Renegade7

Posted
Posted

Some countries are more used to a being a certain way.  Having said that, it's not like Afghanistan has a high gun ownership rate in its rural areas if they aren't taliban.  Places like Kabul are definitely more progressive then the rural areas.  I believe folks in Kabul have said and shown enough they don't want this, but are surrounded.

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bearrock

bearrock

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

People are really gonna stick with “Biden dealt a bad hand and did the best he could”???

 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/21/politics/us-weapons-arsenal-taliban-afghanistan/index.html

 

 

destroying those weapons would have been relatively easy.

 

 

Until it was clear that much of the Afghan security forces wouldn't fight back, US couldn't destroy the weapons as that would've crippled the security forces. Once it was clear they wouldn't fight back, it was too late.

 

Though it sucks, apparently the aircrafts and vehicles are relatively old technology.  It's not like we should be concerned that they could end up divulging classified intel.  And Taliban would likely need foreign help just to maintain and keep them operational in the long term.

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tshile

tshile

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

People are really gonna stick with “Biden dealt a bad hand and did the best he could”???

 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/21/politics/us-weapons-arsenal-taliban-afghanistan/index.html

 

 

destroying those weapons would have been relatively easy.

 


dealt a bad hand? Absolutely. Anyone post-Bush gets that out

 

did the best he could? Well. No, with the caveat there’s a ton of info we don’t have because we’re limited to public knowledge. I’m willing to accept the idea the the Biden administration crafted a terrible plan as much as I’m willing to accept they knew this was likely but put the best public face on it to give it the best chance. 
 

There is nothing I hate worse than people who obviously have access to a fraction of the information, pretending they have it all and hindsight ridiculing decision making. Which is pretty much standard operating g procedure for the average civilian. See: covid; Or any foreign policy matter; or really anything that requires expertise and actually knowledge with access to privileged information

 

One thing is clear - the least important conversation to be having is the blame game for the current situation. And if you look around, you’ll likely find the people focused on that (not just making a comment, but seemingly only focusing on this aspect) are the same ones with low-information yet strong opinions on the matter. 
 

 Hell most of them don’t seem to have a grip on more than a fraction of the publicly available information…

 

pretty easy way to evaluate the quality if one’s opinion. 

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CousinsCowgirl84

CousinsCowgirl84

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, tshile said:

 
 

There is nothing I hate worse than people who obviously have access to a fraction of the information, pretending they have it all and hindsight ridiculing decision making.

 

Yada yada yada. The intelligence was pretty clear according to reports.


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/17/us/politics/afghanistan-biden-administration.amp.html

 

 

Now Biden says he didn’t see it. 

 

Edited by CousinsCowgirl84
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Corcaigh

Corcaigh

Posted
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Wait, so our intelligence services are good now?  I was told in no uncertain terms that they were terrible just last week.

 

Knowing when to trust the deep state is very complicated.

 

 

Edited by Corcaigh
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CousinsCowgirl84

CousinsCowgirl84

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Wait, so our intelligence services are good now?  I was told in no uncertain terms that they were terrible just last week.

Terrible and good. But also sort of a pathetic response.
 

On the other hand, I hire a mechanic to work on my car and expect him to know if he can changes the oil he will need to change the oil filter. It is his job.

 

The president has a job too. He should know things. It doesn’t appear that he did, that’s for sure.

Edited by CousinsCowgirl84
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