The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Damn. UNC favorite next year?

I think he's just going on the original story that dropped. That the guy who broke Barnes to UNC was saying that Barnes was set to announce he was going back. That was a week ago and still nothing. Henson and the other dude have already announced they're going back. I just think that if Barnes was going to stay, he would've done it with them. A teammate thing. Who knows though

Kings won btw

[Rocky21]

The ****in' Wizards. They lose when you want them to win and they win when you want them to lose.

Right now we have the 4th most ping pong balls but I just know we are going to beat Cleveland Wednesday night.

Now Minnesota. That's a team that knows how to tank the rest of the season.

[No Excuses]

Minnesota has been tanking for like the last five years it seems. They are one awful awful team. Exhibit A on how not to rebuild.

[Going Commando]

Minnesota has been tanking for like the last five years it seems. They are one awful awful team. Exhibit A on how not to rebuild.

They'll be punished for their pathetic effort down the stretch.

I'm glad we won last night. It was exciting to watch and felt good. Can anyone believe we split the season series with Boston? BTW, we're going to be a nightmare matchup for them over the next few years.

I haven't felt so tied up in the outcome of a game in months--cheering and shouting when we did good, cussing when we got shafted with bad calls or had crap turnovers. I really wanted to beat them and our youngsters were busting their asses out on the floor.

I'm not that worried about the draft position either, so long as we stay picking in the top 6 or so. Basically this class took a considerable hit when Sullinger and Barnes decided to stay in school. Getting a top 3 pick doesn't concern me as much now because those guys were my top two. Kyrie Irving is the only player in the class with strong star potential and a clear NBA position. After him it's just a bunch of tweeners who could be pretty good and fill a role if everything breaks right for them (yes that includes Derrick Williams). We can probably get Kanter whether pick fourth, fifth, or sixth. If not him, Perry Jones would be fine too.

[pjfootballer]

Stupid Wizards. Can't even lose right. Well, at least with alot of guys not declaring, we'll get a decent player no matter what position we are at.

[Going Commando]

I doubt Derrick Williams would be my first choice even if he were available to us. His hype is absolutely ridiculous right now because people desperately want there to be a franchise player in this class. I read an overly enthusiastic scouting breakdown of him the other day saying he's got the shooting of KD, the finishing of LeBron, and the body/size of Carmelo. LOL! I think he missed the footspeed/athleticism disparity that's pretty key there. That guy probably thinks David West is the next Karl Malone.

Williams doesn't impress me that much. He doesn't have an NBA position because he's too short and finesse to be a top NBA 4 and he's too slow to be a top NBA 3. He's a really good leaper with decent quicks for a college 4. But he's slooooow by NBA 3 standards and I actually think he'll be a big liability as a defender. If you want to be a true franchise player upon which a contender can be built, you've got to play defense at a high level. He's not going to be able to keep up with the LeBrons and Durants and Carmelos on that end and the fours will just muscle him around and shoot over top of him.

Williams will be a good scorer because he can catch and shoot and run a pick and roll so he'll always be a pretty good player, but I don't think he'll ever be a great/dominant one. Look around the league an you see that all of the current best/franchise caliber players are either the physical prototype for their position/a genuine athletic freak OR they get by being dominatingly fast and strong for their position.

Real quick: the physical prototypes (or guys who are better than the prototype)

PG:

- Derrick Rose

- John Wall (he'll get there)

- Derron Williams

- Russel Westbrook

- Jason Kidd

- Steve Nash (he's at least tall for a PG)

SG:

- Kobe Bryant

- Brandon Roy? (wow, only two franchise caliber SGs if you don't count him...)

SF:

- Kevin Durant

- LeBron James

- Carmelo Anthony

- Danny Granger

- Paul Pierce

PF:

- Blake Griffin

- Dirk Nowitzki

- Amare Stoudemire

- Chris Bosh

- Pau Gasol

- LaMarcus Aldridge

- Kevin Garnett

- Kevin Love? (debatable if he's a franchise caliber player or not)

- Tim Duncan

C:

- Dwight Howard (wow, he's the only one...)

- Shaq and Yao if you go back 6 or 7 years

Franchise players without ideal size/height that get by on elite speed:

- Chris Paul

- Dwyane Wade (elite strength too)

- early decade Allen Iverson

- Rajon Rondo

So if you look back over the past ten years or so, all of the NBA's franchise players had ideal height and body types for their position or they were guards with elite footspeed. Derrick Williams is none of that. I can't think of a single superstar forward from the past decade whose been undersized. So to be a franchise caliber forward, you've got to have the height and DW doesn't have the height of an NBA PF. He'll have to stick to the 3 where he'll lose a significant part of his offensive game in college and he'll have trouble staying with the best 3s in the NBA.

[@DCGoldPants]

@stevemcqueen1 - Usually I would argue over this because I think Williams is going to be a strong pro. However, the past few weeks of your posts here have been awesome. So instead of fighting over there. I'm going to ask for your top 5 in this upcoming draft with mini breakdowns.

[Going Commando]

Well, at least with alot of guys not declaring, we'll get a decent player no matter what position we are at.

My thoughts exactly. Since we can't draft a PG, I don't see a huge difference between pick first or fifth in the caliber of player we come away with.

[Kosher Ham]

@stevemcqueen1 - Usually I would argue over this because I think Williams is going to be a strong pro. However, the past few weeks of your posts here have been awesome. So instead of fighting over there. I'm going to ask for your top 5 in this upcoming draft with mini breakdowns.

Ditto actually.

[ATLredskin]

I think we have no choice, but to draft one of these one and done freshman because the potential is there. A lot of these guys ranked up there is not that good. I'm not a fan of trading back in the NBA draft (actually nobody does that) but i'll be happy with a Morris brother and FSU Singleton/Singler or if targeting a one and done then Tobias Harris and Tristan Thompson...I would take two of these guys over someone like Kanter, Perry Jones, and Terrance Jones. At the moment I only like Barnes and Derrick Williams for us and if we can't get them then we are screwed...I wouldn't mind a draft and trade like with someone like Kyrie Irving...

[StillUnknown]

We can probably get Kanter whether pick fourth, fifth, or sixth. If not him, Perry Jones would be fine too.

Perry Jones is going back to Baylor

[pjfootballer]

Perry Jones is going back to Baylor

I thought I saw that yesterday and was going to add it in my last post, but I wasn't sure. This class is dwindling in talent.

[Destino]

stevemcqueen1 has a point on size. While there are players that can play at less then ideal size, the laker's are out there hoping to run into them. Gasol and Bynum are both 7 feet tall and can play on both ends of the court. Odom is 6'10 coming off the bench. That's a pain in the ass front court to deal with.

This is why I think Blatche has a great deal of value coming off the bench somewhere else. There just aren't that many bigs that can score in the NBA at his size and having him compliment a front court with his offensive ability against the other teams B squad for stretches would help a team that's already good. I think his ego could be checked on a proven team with good established leadership.

If you trade Blatche and draft Williams you have 6-8 Booker and Williams at the 4. Then you have 6-9 Seraphin backing up Mcgee at the 5. That's not going to get it done.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I don't think so.

Chard Ford's twitter:

http://twitter.com/chadfordinsider/status/57526060853633024#

I'm wondering if we are not in a position to draft Derrick Williams, maybe we should look to trade this pick for a proven NBA player who is still young enough to grow with this team.

I just don't see anyone wanting to trade into the lottery this year. Do you really think any team is sitting there and thinking that Kyle Irving is the answer to all their prayers? What's his ceiling? The sixth best point guard in the league over his career?

I would draft one of the international dudes. You can at least con the fans if you do that.

Edited April 12, 2011 by Lombardi's_kid_brother

[Warhead36]

With a potential lockout, the best bet might be to draft an international kid and stash him overseas. I mean he'd probably play overseas for at least a year anyway, but at least this way we wouldn't really lose anything. This draft class, which wasn't very good to begin with, is just becoming a disaster.

[Going Commando]

@stevemcqueen1 - Usually I would argue over this because I think Williams is going to be a strong pro. However, the past few weeks of your posts here have been awesome. So instead of fighting over there. I'm going to ask for your top 5 in this upcoming draft with mini breakdowns.

Thanks Buford. I think Williams is a good prospect, just not a great one. I think he's a future role player like everyone else in this class outside Irving. I would definitely take him if he were there because we could use him. I just don't think he'll be a superstar like the consensus seems to be right now.

The reason we could use him is because we could definitely use his shooting at the 3. Crawford is going to get better and become an efficient shooter, but take him away and NY is the only quality mid-long range shooter we've got. If you think about it, do you want anyone aside from those two hoisting a jumper? Blatche makes them just often enough to make you think he can do it but then you look at his efficiency #s and they are terrible. Seraphin and Javale can't shoot. Yi really shouldn't even be playing. Booker is a center in a small forward's body. Evans/Owens/Jeffers whoever we're currently trotting out at the 3 probably won't be here next season and they're each more hustle/defensive types with questionable shooting (although Jeffers intrigues me). Josh Howard and Rashard Lewis might as well not even be on the team as little as they've played.

So right now we've got one quality shooter on the team (currently injured and a potential FA) and another one who will probably get there. We could definitely use Derrick Williams's excellent shooting. We need catch and shoot outlets for Wall's playmaking abilities in the worst way. Williams will also be an outstanding pick and roll outlet and he'll give us a lot of offensive rebounding even if he plays the 3 full time because he leaps and finishes so well for that position.

But I would still worry some about a DW pick because I would worry about being defensively soft in our front court and SF position. Blatche has actually played quality defense the past few weeks but I think we know by now this isn't going to last from him. For the first 70 games of the year he was a crappy defender and that's what we're more likely to see from him down the line. Javale has played pretty good defense but he still makes poor decisions to chase the ball and abandon his teammates + takes himself out of position to clean up on the boards. On the perimeter we're currently getting good defense from Evans and Jeffers but those guys probably won't stick around, and even if they did, they don't really have the offensive capabilities of being complete starting caliber perimeter guys. If Crawford is our long term starter at SG, he's pretty good and active on the defensive end but he's still a little short and skinny for the position (though to be fair, he does have long arms). You have to keep NY and put him in to truly defend the bigger NBA 2 guards.

I'd worry about drafting DW and us trying to play him at PF which I just don't think is a good idea. But if you move him to the 3, we'd run the risk of being defensively soft at four out of five positions with our starters. If DW is your three and Crawford is your two, we've also got no perimeter stopper and no answer to the type of 3s that we' see in the playoffs.

If we drafted DW we'd have to hope his offense would offset his defense. We need the offense he'd bring really badly right now, but we've got to be thinking long term as well. We'll probably be able to find excellent offensive outlets next year who can also be shutdown perimeter defenders. Harrison Barnes and Michael Gilchrist come to mind immediately. We'll probably still be bad enough to get a guy like that in the next lottery.

That's why most of my favorite options for us this year are developmental power forwards, and why I'm actually a little glad DW will probably be off the board before we pick. If DW is there, you pretty much have to take him because no other forward has his offensive impact. But if he's gone, the pressure is off of you and you can take a long term project who could be a more complete fit in the long run. If that happens, we should either get a freak athlete like Perry Jones and accept we're in for a long haul with his development. Or we should get a ferocious, high motor/hustle tough guy with good size like Enes Kanter or Jonas Valanciunas.

My thinking on our top five is pretty standard, you can probably get all of my thoughts off of draftexpress. They've got some fantastic in depth articles on nearly all of the top players.

This would probably be my preference:

1a. Kanter - Best total package at the PF spot and a guy who can start early. He's tough, big motor, big body/strong base, defensive rebounding machine (compliments Javale), good IQ, pretty good offense, potential for a good post game, really soft touch, potential to be a quality source of post scoring, runs fairly well. Al Horford often gets brought up as his ceiling.

1b. Williams - outstanding leaper, going to block a lot of shots and get lots of offensive rebounds in the NBA; quick for a college 4 and can attack the rim very hard but not really fast, outstanding shooter--didn't really shoot from range a whole bunch this season but he did it enough to see his talent for it, also when he did shoot he had ridiculous efficiency from long range; creates his own shots pretty well off the dribble; looks like he could one day be a devastating catch and shoot type and coupled with his finishing skills he'll crush a pick and roll offense; seems fairly smart; big body for an NBA 3; if he keeps improving his shot and tones his body, I could see his ceiling being like a slow Danny Granger on the offensive end.

3a. Perry Jones - freakish speed, faster than his guards; freakish height and length, nearly has a KD reach; freakish leaping ability, explodes off court like he's wearing flubber shoes; excellent ball handler for a tall player; good shooter from mid range and can occasionally drain threes when he's allowed to take them; such a gifted finisher, makes everything smooth and easy and with either hand; quick hands, hard to shoot over, will force turnovers and block a lot of shots; can defend either the 3 or 4 in the NBA because of his size and speed; surprisingly strong for a very skinny player, lots of room to grow too; solid rebounder, especially for an NCAA freshman; will be devastating on the pick and pop one day; teams have always been mediocre though/has never won when he's been "the man" on his team--much more comfortable as the sidekick; a bit passive looking/afraid to shoot, lack of confidence in shot?; probably going to need a ton of work and time to mold into an NBA 4--basically no post game yet and will take time to shape his body. If he's actually able to put it all together offensively, add a bunch of strength, and play with aggression and a high motor, Jones's ceiling is super high. Like Blake Griffin high.

3b. Jonas Valanciunas - Like Kanter, haven't seen anything but cutups from his time in the Euros so I don't really know whether or not to rank him ahead of Jones. What I've seen from him is that he's got an elite frame--going to be very tall with freakishly long arms and big hands; very skinny player with slender hips and legs but he's got wide shoulders suggesting he can add a great deal of muscle as he ages; very good footspeed; tremendous hustle, never stops running and working on both ends of the floor and throws his body around without fear (impressive for an 18 year old in a league full of much older and more grizzly players); nice soft touch in the paint; can finish and likes to dunk hard when it's there; rapidly improving offensively, dominated world competition at his own age level; good passer, smart/unselfish player in general; tenacity and length suggests he'll be a very good rebounder once he actually has an NBA body; good FT shooter; been on successful teams before; pretty good hands and can block shots; pretty good runner and leaper for his size; looks like he's going to be a long term project though because of his weight and his pretty nascent scoring skills plus the fact that he's a Euro. The urge is to compare him to other Euros. A Marcin Gortat projection doesn't seem that far off although that's a ceiling I think Valanciunas can an will break.

5. Now that John Henson is out, this is a tough one to pick. Bismarck Biyombo or Patrick Young if they declare. I don't really like Donatas Montiejunas or Jan Vesely that much and I don't know anything about Nikola Mirotic. Patric Young was a lightly used freshman at Florida this year so he'll almost certainly go back to school. I'd probably take him as my fifth choice if he did since Kemba Walker/Brandon Knight/Kyrie Irving are basically out of the question if we extend Nick Young. If PY does declare, then I think he's a big bodied PF with an NBA physique; great attitude and willingness to mix it up and scrap for the ball; not much offense but he'll be an elite defender and rebounder with some crude finishing skills; DX says he's a Kendrick Perkins style big and I'd love to have players like that on my team with legit PF size.

But seeing as how PY will probably go back to school, I like Bismarck Biyombo for that spot I guess. He's got terrific size and length; good physique--already surprisingly strong and has a ton of room to get stronger; relentless motor, runs constantly; aggressive and forceful finisher, loves to dunk it hard; good footspeed and outstanding leaper; going to be terrific shotblocker in the NBA; very rough offensively but I like that motor--if he comes up with a back to the basket game he's going to be a bear.

He's only 18 though and I think he's solidly behind Kanter and Valanciunas in the 1992 group. He might not come out. If he doesn't you have to look at some of the 1991 and 1990 guys who I don't really like as much. I guess I'd take Vesely here if Biyombo were gone but I wouldn't feel good about it. Terrence Jones would also be a decent option on paper but people say he's got terrible intangibles.

---------- Post added April-12th-2011 at 11:21 AM ----------

Perry Jones is going back to Baylor

Damn, well he needs it. I would have drafted him in the top 5 but I wouldn't have felt good doing it. Too many questions with him. This class is going to be all Euro bigs at the top of the lottery. Next year's lottery group is going to be much, much better.

---------- Post added April-12th-2011 at 11:29 AM ----------

With a potential lockout, the best bet might be to draft an international kid and stash him overseas. I mean he'd probably play overseas for at least a year anyway, but at least this way we wouldn't really lose anything. This draft class, which wasn't very good to begin with, is just becoming a disaster.

With Perry Jones out, it's looking like that's your best option by far. Grab one of the 18 year old Euros because they are tall an still growing and they play with a relentless motor.

Your point about them playing in Europe while the lockout progresses makes a lot of sense too. They'd come out in better shape than the American rookies from this class. In two years we come back as the new look Bullets with two lottery pick rookie forwards to go along with our awesome sophomore guards. That's not so bad.

P.S. Sullinger is a moron for not coming out. He'd be a top three lock if he did. Instead he's going to go back to a loaded forward class and risk falling out of the lottery entirely.

[No Excuses]

I just don't see anyone wanting to trade into the lottery this year. Do you really think any team is sitting there and thinking that Kyle Irving is the answer to all their prayers? What's his ceiling? The sixth best point guard in the league over his career?

I would draft one of the international dudes. You can at least con the fans if you do that.

I think Atlanta will be in a position over the offseason where they finally realize that their team is the perfect example of mediocrity. The current structure of that team is built for a 45 win, first round exit season.

I could see the Hawks having an interest in Irving. They've needed a point guard ever since the blunder of passing on Deron Williams and Chris Paul for Marvin Williams. Bibby was patchwork as is Kirk Hinrich. With the recent renaissance of the point guard position, the Hawks might try to make a move for Irving.

The Hawks were shopping Horford and Smith not too long ago. I would much rather make a deal for one of the two than draft an international player. I'm uncomfortable with selecting European big men and I think what we do in this upcoming draft is crucial towards our future success. If we bust out on this pick, we set our selves back quite a bit.

Edited April 12, 2011 by No Excuses

[ACW]

Zmz0qQp4OmI

:rotflmao:

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Hahaha. Rare opportunity there. We get to laugh at the OTHER team. What a moron.

You know, me and Vishal were talking last night and we both agreed that this is the first time in awhile that we've felt genuine sadness over a Wizards season ending. Blatche aside (as well as McGee's :doh: moments) this is a fun, energetic and talented group with real heart. So easy to root for. We're blessed to have Wall and Crawford and Co. And whatever happens with the lottery and the draft, I can't wait for next year.

---------- Post added April-12th-2011 at 04:35 PM ----------

I'm on the Kanter bandwagon, but you gotta take into account the concerns with his knees. That's really, really not good when talking about a big.

Edited April 12, 2011 by G.A.C.O.L.B.

[StillUnknown]

i'm hoping for Kanter as well at this point

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

[Destino]

I'm hoping for Marc Gasol, Wilson Chandler, and DeAndre Jordan. As for the draft I don't have high hopes of finding a full time starter ready to play next season in this draft but I would mind Kantor or Valanciunas.

Edited April 12, 2011 by Destino

[ACW]

See, I don't have a BIG problem w/ showboating after a dunk, but Rule 1: MAKE SURE IT GOES IN

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Here's the other top Euro: Jon Vesely. Dude can dunk. I'll give him that much.

Lol @ nbadraft.net having his NBA comparison as Mike Dunleavy Jr. Let me know when Dunleavy dunks like that. God what a joke that site is. Tall? Check. Lanky? Check. White? Check. MIKE DUNLEAVY JR!!!

Edited April 12, 2011 by G.A.C.O.L.B.

[@DCGoldPants]

Have you guys seen this guy?

He's nuts on the court, and his vertical is insane.