THEHERD (ESPNRADIO): Drew Brees: QB is 90% Mental (Discussion)

[Morneblade]

I dont know if it's 90%, but it's the most important part of playing QB. And "mental" doesnt just mean "smart". You have to be able to focus on getting passes off while underpressure, and not start looking around for the pass rush. You need to "feel" the pressure and move away from it, while focusing downfield. You have to read defenses, and make decisions quickly. Just having a big arm doesnt mean jack (see Ryan Leaf) but you can get by with a less that stellar arm but have alot going for you upstairs. Brees is a good current example and so is Pennington and Warner, but then you can look at guys like Kosar and Montana that were pretty good too.

[chipwhich]

Luck is HUGE. To be drafted into a good organization with a deep roster and premier coaching trumps arm strenght and smarts.

:helmet:

Really? I wouldn't say Manning was so lucky to be drafted by the colts. the colts weren't exactly any draft picks dream team.

I wouldn't say Jason Campbell was so unlucky to be drafted by Washington.

Drew Bledsoe he wasn't so lucky on the Patriots.

Chad Pennington wasn't so lucky to be a Jet or a Dolphin.

Some QB's have it, some don't.

I would say luck has very little to do with it.

Trent Dilfer was the only lucky Superbowl winner I can remember.

[mnb123]

If we can safely say that no QB ever makes it onto an NFL roster without a seriously good set of physical skills then the balance (in terms of success) has to be 2 parts mental and 10 parts luck.

How lucky was Joe Montana to be drafted by Walsh as he developed his new offense?

How lucky was Steve Young to be rescued from Tampa by Walsh?

Would Ben Rothlisberger or Tom Brady be household names if they had been drafted by Detroit?

How unlucky was Jason Campbell to be drafted by Washington during an era of constant change?

Luck is HUGE. To be drafted into a good organization with a deep roster and premier coaching trumps arm strenght and smarts.

:helmet:

You do realize, as the poster behind me has stated, that for the most part, the best college QB's go to the worst teams, right? I doubt most teams picking top 5 have "deep rosters" and "premier coaching", or else they wouldnt be there

[soljaofjesus]

Well, according to John Madden, "90% of the game is half mental."

Lets think abut what john madden said... "90% of the game is HALF mental" .. I must be awful at math.. whats the answer? :doh:

[Zazzaro703]

I would lean more towards 75% mental.

I would agree with this. Physical skills help when you have to break the pocket and scramble to make a throw or run for a positive game. Other than that, making the defensive read pre snap with all the disguises, knowing what matchup that gives your pass catchers and delivering a strike on time to said pass catchers running the right route (part physical) are key and mostly mental. As much as i would like to see what Colt has, Campbell played well the first half of the season and i look forward to seeing how he plays in year 2 of Jim Zorn's offense because i feel a lot of things contributed to our 2-6 finish and Campbell was def not all to blame for it. Everything broke down from O-line, Qb play, limited playbook, defenses recognizing the limited play book of a first year and head coached offense. One week until training camp! :helmet::logo::point2sky

[Kindred]

football is like a chess match, you either control what happens or your opponent controls what you do.

[illone]

If we can safely say that no QB ever makes it onto an NFL roster without a seriously good set of physical skills then the balance (in terms of success) has to be 2 parts mental and 10 parts luck.

How lucky was Joe Montana to be drafted by Walsh as he developed his new offense?

How lucky was Steve Young to be rescued from Tampa by Walsh?

Would Ben Rothlisberger or Tom Brady be household names if they had been drafted by Detroit?

How unlucky was Jason Campbell to be drafted by Washington during an era of constant change?

Luck is HUGE. To be drafted into a good organization with a deep roster and premier coaching trumps arm strenght and smarts.

:helmet:

I disagree with this. Good players stand up regardless of their opportunity. I strongly believe that success lies within the person, not the job. You will never be able to convince me that luck had anything to do with how great montana, young, elway, rypien, doug williams, drew brees, tom brady, and peyton manning are/were at playing pro ball at the highest level.

90% mental, 10% physical, 0% luck.

[drtdrums]

Brees has to be one of the most freakishly accurate passers to ever play the game. I salivate at the thought that maybe, someday, Washington will have a QB as gifted and as mentally together.

[Oldfan]

Brees is grossly exaggerating to make his point that the mental side of the game is generally underestimated.

The most important factor by far is the talent to throw a football.

[MartinC]

Brees is grossly exaggerating to make his point that the mental side of the game is generally underestimated.

The most important factor by far is the talent to throw a football.

There are literally thousands of young men in the US who have the ability to throw a football well, possibly hundreds who can do so at an NFL level.

Evidence shows there are less than 32 of those men who can throw a football successfully on any kind of consistent basis in an NFL regular season.

Mental and physical toughness are the vast majority of what separates those who make it from those who don't IMO.

[Chachie]

I think Drew speaks from the POV of an athlete who, like most, already has the physical components. In other words, all NFL QBs have strong arms compared to the rest of the world. That's how they got in the door. It's just that only a percentage of those guys have the mental makings to really succeed beyond that.

There are literally thousands of young men in the US who have the ability to throw a football well, possibly hundreds who can do so at an NFL level.

Evidence shows there are less than 32 of those men who can throw a football successfully on any kind of consistent basis in an NFL regular season.

Mental and physical toughness are the vast majority of what separates those who make it from those who don't IMO.

We agree. I think it's about physical talent until you make it to the bigs. Then you better be mentally supreme.

[ntotoro]

We agree. I think it's about physical talent until you make it to the bigs. Then you better be mentally supreme.

See: Arrington, LaLiar...

[THE HAMMER'IN HOG]

Brees is grossly exaggerating to make his point that the mental side of the game is generally underestimated.

The most important factor by far is the talent to throw a football.

Not even close!

What has held JC back his entire pro career? His physical potential is the only reason he's in the NFL, his mental is why he has been an absolute failure until now.

Let's now define mental, an inability to learn an offense, an inability to react and anticipate to what his recievers are going to do according to what the defense is going to do, as well as being able to anticipate what the defense is going to do as to be able to audible to a more favorable match up for the offense, then process all that in seconds and make an accurate throw, JC has proven he has no mental game. And his physical game when it comes to accuracy is well below average.

Lets assume that any QB who has been able to make it to the NFL level, has the ability to throw the football, I hope I am not asking to much here? Then what factor would hinder his ability to succeed in the NFL? Keep in mind Big Ben just won a SB with a lousy offensive line. Yes the team around you will decide whether or not you win a SB, but you can have significant success without a great team around you if you are a good QB.

Physical to mental? Just take a look at Jeff George, million dollar arm, 10 cent brain!

Tom Brady, 10 cent body, million dollar brain!

The Vince Young, to Kerry Collins comparison can also be applied here.

[KDawg]

to listen to THETURD

You have to be 90% mental(ly challenged)

Okay? Thanks for your valuable opinion on the subject, which ironically enough had very little to do with the subject.

I love the way the herd dude acts like his opinion is fact.

This wasn't something Cowherd said.

[Vicious]

I wouldn't say Jason Campbell was so unlucky to be drafted by Washington.

LOL I know it's hard looking out from the inside but come on.

[terrifNick21]

Actually Yogi Berra.

I think that was actually Yogi Berra

No. John Madden said it on Madden for years. Trust me on that one.

[gube79]

Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Brees, and most of the other great QB's in the league are IQ football players. Physical attributes are overrated.

damn, brady didn't go in to the weight room at michigan at all...

[The Consigliere]

Earlier, on Cowherd's show, Brees had said that playing QB is 90% mental. I'm wondering, how many of you believe that to be the case? Any particular reason?

I want to see what values people place on mental and physical attributes in a quarterback. What I don't want with this thread is for it to turn into a Colt/Campbell thread. If you have to use examples, please, for the love of the Redskins, find another QB in the league to use as an example.

How important are the physical properties of a QB?

If you are physically capable of making all the throws then I can agree with this. If he's suggesting that being physically capable of doing the job is only 10% of making it in the league. He's nuts. You either can, or you cannot. If physical attributes were 1/10th as important as mental Danny Weurffel and many other noodle arms would be HOF's. They aren't, because they couldn't physically make the transition to the next level. If you can physically do the job in the NFL, what gives you an edge is definitely in the mind when it comes to QB's. There are exceptions (like Terry Bradshaw, but a huge percentage of the true greats were anything but mental midgets including and not limited to Bart Starr, Johnny Unitas, Joe Montana, Tom Brady and the like), but the majority of the truly great had to have quality football minds and football smarts and great judgement.

But again, if Brees had a bit more of a noodle arm (which is the reason he wasn't highly thought of coming out of Purdue, along with his height issues), he probably would never have been anything more than a backup. To be able to succeed in this league you have to be physically able to succeed, then, if you're physically capable, your success will almost be wholly attributable to your dedication, and smarts (along with the coaching you get, and the talent around you. Archie Manning and Steve Young, and Jim Plunkett are examples of guys who appeared to be miserable failures throughout their careers, until in the case of the latter two, they were surrounded with first rate football minds, and actual talent, and proceeded to use their minds and physical talent effectively).

[The Consigliere]

I was just naming one, but since you went there, I'll expand it further:

Are the scrambling QBs of today alot less mental and much more reliant on athletic ability? And is that the reason why they aren't as successful as scrambling quarterbacks of the past?

At least in Young's case, he seemed to get a limited playbook and limited passing game training at Texas. Reports suggest he's a mental midget (and even worse, mentally weak, which is completely in contradistinction to how he seemed at Texas), and can't really get the pro game. Whatever one may say of Vick, he was actually a pretty effective and projectable passing QB in college, and a solid if mediocre passing QB in the NFL. Young is just crap, thus far anyway (which was kind of predictable, I thought Bush and Williams were the best value that draft along with that LT taken early, Ferguson i think it was).

It depends on the system I think. Some QB's clearly are being allowed to get away w/athleticism, and not being really broken into being elite level QB's (maybe because they're not seen as having the tools, or just seen as too raw, and it not being the college's job to fix their passing game, if what they do is already effective enough to win, and just needs to be maximized?). It will be interesting to see how Pryor turns out at OSU. Dude is supposed to be a world class stud and had a very nice freshmen season. Will he be coached up into becoming a projectable passing QB at the next level? If I were him I would have considered somewhere else just because OSU simply isn't producing NFL caliber QB's despite their success, but maybe they just didnt recruit a guy of his caliber yet.

Great point by a previous poster on Stauback, Tarkenton and Elway. Those guys were outstanding scramblers, but also great throwing QB's. I'd add Cunningham. Never an elite passing QB, but in his prime he was a good-very good one, and showed what he could do when healthy and with top shelf weapons in minnesota in '98 (never, ever had legit, stud weapons around him in Philly, period).

[The Consigliere]

I disagree with this. Good players stand up regardless of their opportunity. I strongly believe that success lies within the person, not the job. You will never be able to convince me that luck had anything to do with how great montana, young, elway, rypien, doug williams, drew brees, tom brady, and peyton manning are/were at playing pro ball at the highest level.

90% mental, 10% physical, 0% luck.

You do know that Doug basically vanished from the league for like 3 years, and nobody even called until Gibbs, who helped draft him, called him for a backup job? If that isn't luck, I don't know what is. Bad luck, and good luck. I understand your point, and I think some guys can overcome bad luck. People forget just how ghastly the Niners were when Montana arrived, and the Colts when Manning came to town. But there are inumerable cases of great QB's whose careers either completely were swallowed up by the ineptitude of their franchise (Neil Lomax, Archie Manning), or were nearly destroyed by having their early years connected with hopeless and incompetant management and coaching (Jim Plunkett, Steve Young) and those guys are simply straight off the top of my head examples.

There are reasons why certain teams are the way they are. The Lions have been a massive joke for essentially 55 years. The Cardinals have been a joke since the 1940's (last season being a rare exception), the Falcons have basically generally posted 1-2 seasons of non-suckitude, per decade since the eighties (before the eighties they couldn't even manage that). The Saints (Bobby Hebert, and Archie Manning, anybody else?)? The Jets have generally been bottom feeders FOREVER (yes they occasionally get a good coach, and have 2-4 year run, then fall back straight into the morass of ineptitude). The Browns have been awful for nearly 45 years, w/only some Kosar year exceptions. The bengals have sucked FOREVER (brief exceptions in Ken Anderson's prime, and in boomer esiason's prime). The Chiefs have rarely challenged anyone for anything save for the Schotty era of the midnineties.

It hasn't mattered how good players were, they still got swallowed up eventually by the vast majority of these teams I listed? Name a QB for the Cardinals other than Kurt Warner, or Neil Lomax? Maybe some of you remember Jake? Maybe some graybeards remember Jim Hart? But that's only if you know the game inside and out. What about the Lions? Can we really remember any great Lions QB's? Can we name any falcons QB's other than Vick, and the kid? I can. But most couldn't. All of these teams are grave yards for college studs.

Sure, some guys could overcome it, or partially overcome it. Bernie Kosar, Joe Montana, Ken Anderson, and boomer to name a few (and if you're really good, guys like Steve Bartkowski, the aforementioned Hart, and Lomax, Ken O'Brien and Pat Ryan, and Richard Todd might come to mind), but by and large, certain franchises are just grave yards for careers. I think one needs to be fair and reasonable when determining how guys climbed out of their problems. Montana had Walsh, Bradshaw had Noll, unitas had the greatest OC/DC combo in NFL History (Lombardi and Landry), Starr had Lombardi (and before Lombardi was a nobody nearly ready to quit), Brady had Bellichek, Manning had Mora, and Dungy, guys who specialized in rebuilding crapped out franchises (for all the "Playoffs, playoffs!" laughs we get from that Mora newsbite, he did resurrect the Saints from the trash bin, where they ended up immediately again after he left, and he rebuilt the Colts from #1 overall pick in the draft, to consistent Playoff entrant, he just wasn't a final step coach, much like Dungy who was perceived the same exact way).

One may say these guys would have been studs with or without their teachers, but I kind of doubt it. I don't think it's a coincidence that the guys you mention were successful elsewhere save one (Walsh was outstanding as an OC, and at Stanford), Mora and Dungy were both outstanding without their go to guys, and Bellichek has two assistant rings before he met Brady (though he crashed and burned in Cleveland, the patriots performance this past year was a testament to his talent in my view). It will always be damn near impossible to figure out exactly just who was most responsible for the success. Though when I look at Montana's career, he definetly screams exceptions (constantly in and out of favor at Notre Dame, but played like a stud every chance he got, even though he didnt look the part, and QB'd the chiefs to their best ever performances in their history save for the Len Dawson/Hank Stram years, and w/far, far, far less talent) so he did it w/o Walsh. the other guys? Not so sure. Young was a disaster in tampa, and the USFL. Elway? Elway I agree. Dude had the physcial tools to be a stud anywhere and showed it at Stanford. Rypien? I very much doubt it. I think he landed in the PERFECT situation for him. Williams was basically dumped out of the league. Brees? Really not sure, I really loved his game at Purdue and hoped the Redskins could steal him that draft, alas he went higher than expected (because the Chargers did the Vick Trade with Atlanta) so we didnt have a shot unless we could have rightly seen that Rod Gardner was basically never gonna amount to more than a stop gap. Ehhh, that's enough from me I'm babbling.

[Oldfan]

Brees is grossly exaggerating to make his point that the mental side of the game is generally underestimated.

The most important factor by far is the talent to throw a football.

Not even close!...Lets assume that any QB who has been able to make it to the NFL level' date=' has the ability to throw the football, I hope I am not asking to much here?...[/quote']

No, we can't do that. You aren't answering the question that was asked.

The original question was NOT -- "If we assume that any QB who has been able to make it to the NFL level has the ability to throw the football what percentage of what is left is mental."

The biggest factor in a QB's performance is the ability to throw the football, and even at the NFL level, there are crucial differences in ability that make the difference between winning and losing.

NFL football is complex, but it isn't rocket science, and it's a pro player's full-time job, so he has plenty of time to learn it.

Tom Brady doesn't call his own plays. He executes an offense that was designed by someone else. He has to be quick-witted enough to recognize situations, but from there on, the reaction is physical. His chief asset is the ability to throw a football with accuracy. Chad Pennington is equal to Brady in every way --except arm strength. But, that deficiency allows defenses to compress the field on him and his soft throwing sometimes puts his receivers at risk waiting for the pass to arrive.

[NoVaSkins21]

Okay? Thanks for your valuable opinion on the subject, which ironically enough had very little to do with the subject.

I think he was just trying to be funny given Cowherd's mostly negative opinion of the Skins.

[FuriousD]

I disagree with this. Good players stand up regardless of their opportunity. I strongly believe that success lies within the person, not the job. You will never be able to convince me that luck had anything to do with how great montana, young, elway, rypien, doug williams, drew brees, tom brady, and peyton manning are/were at playing pro ball at the highest level.

90% mental, 10% physical, 0% luck.

Be honest here; do really think that if you asked any hall of fame QB how he felt his success broke down along those lines that he would say:

"90% my intelligence, 10% my body and 0% luck" Absurd.

You haven't been paying attention. I can't remember an interveiw with a great player didn't mention being lucky to be associated with this coach, that organization and those players and any combination of those three helped propel him to great heights.

:helmet:

[veteranskinsfan]

I believe JC reminded Gibbs of Doug Williams when he first saw him. JC is tall like Doug, has an adequate arm, and is a pocket passer. Doug had better offensive line protection than JC has had in his seasons with the Skins. JC has the physical skills to be a good quarterback. I believe Drew Brees is right about stressing the mental aspect of the game. Look at Sonny Jurgensen who is a Hall of Famer. Sonny had a good arm but his mental abilities were super. He could not roll out of the pocket like Brett Favre but he had real fantastic leadership skills. He lifted up his teammates up and convinced them they were never out of any ball game. He had total command of the huddle. When Lombardi worked with Sonny for just one year, he knew Sonny was a special quarterback. I hope JC worked on his mental game this Summer to prepare him for a challenging year ahead. Sonny had 3 really good receivers- Charley Taylor, Jerry Smith, and Bobby Mitchell. JC needs a third receiver to do well this year too.

[illone]

Be honest here; do really think that if you asked any hall of fame QB how he felt his success broke down along those lines that he would say:

"90% my intelligence, 10% my body and 0% luck" Absurd.

You haven't been paying attention. I can't remember an interveiw with a great player didn't mention being lucky to be associated with this coach, that organization and those players and any combination of those three helped propel him to great heights.

:helmet:

Post one of these interviews because I can't recall anytime where a football player mentioned luck as being a factor in his success.

I will agree that luck does play a part, but not to the point you and I might agree on.

That may be a thread for the tailgate but to me luck is the combination of talent, and work ethic. Doug Williams showed Gibbs enough talent and hard work that gibbs thought to call him up when he needed a QB for camp.

Your definition of luck to me is like winning the lottery. Hitting the jackpot in vegas. THAT is luck.

Not a hard working NFL caliber player, who gets picked up off the street to live his dream and play in the NFL. Kurt Warner was throwing footballs in his sleep while bagging groceries at Hy-Vee. His skill and body of work up to that point provided the opportunity for the Rams to come calling when they did. I suppose it's luck that green got injured when he did, but somehow I still believe that kurt warner got his opportunity when he was supposed to, the same way jason campbell has, and the same way Colt Brennan will.

If vermeil walks up to warner with a coinflip and says "heads you start, tailes you sit" and then spins a heads, then I would agree that kurt warner is lucky:D.