ljs Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 There is a discussion in the stadium regarding Mark Sanchez's arrest in 2006 for allegedly sexually assaulting a female while a freshman at USC. The thread turned into more of a "does it really happen that much" type of thread. Slightly ironic since Jake Plummer just got hired locally as a highschool football QB coach. (1hr north of me) http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/highschool/04/17/plummer.coach.ap/ I was surprised when I read that in our local paper, considering he did plead guilty (there are a ton of articles on this, but here it is from Sports Illustrated). May 28, 1997: Charged with felony sexual abuse June 27, 1997: Struck a plea bargain and received two years probation; also fined $1,020 and ordered to perform 100 hours of community service http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/more/news/2003/07/18/the_accused/ If I had a son playing highschool football, I would rather not have Jake Plummer be someone he "looked up to". But then again, you all probably don't hear the locals talk trash about him and Elway and their parties on the Lake Coeur D'Alene. (many people around here can't stand those two). Anyway, the thread in the stadium was getting kinda heated, with some guys saying it hardly happens and many women make it up...to the guys who said it happens more than we think and we shouldn't draft Sanchez because of it. So my fellow tailgaters on ES...what say you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACW Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 No jail? Just wrong. I'm against drafting Sanchez anyway (we don't need another QB). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rdskn4Lyf21 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Some girls make it up and some it honestly happens to. I'd guess just from people that I know and instances that I know of that it happens way more frequently than anyone thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 how much it happens and how much its reported are two different numbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 This being Tailgate, I assume that somebody will be along with statistics. This being Tailgate, I also expect a bunch of people simply making blanket declarations that it almost never happens. (Some of them will go so far as to leave off the "almost".) And others will make equally blanket statements that it happens all the time. How many times is "that much"? Almost implies that there's some acceptable number or something. (No, that wasn't an attack on your motives.) ---------- On the subject of date rape, though. I've seen the stories, and the Law & Order episodes, where The Guy slips something into The Girl's drink. She blacks out. Wakes up the next morning with a heck of a hangover, and the feeling that she's had sex. My question is: Are there really that many guys out there who are willing to go through all that work, just so they can have sex with a girl who's passed out unconscious? Where's the guy's motivation, here? Can't they just get the same thing from an inflatable rubber doll? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renaissance Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 I think one of the problems with sexual assault is that it's such an all inclusive term. Sexual assault can equal anything from inappropriate touching (a slap on the ass) to rape. While these are both highly inappropriate, IMO bc they get grouped together under the term sexual assault, rape and other more serious forms of sexual assault are devalued (if that is even the right word to use in this case). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljs Posted April 21, 2009 Author Share Posted April 21, 2009 I'm going to grab some stats that NewCliche21 posted in the Stadium thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbear Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 It happens a lot. Of my 10 to maybe 15 female friends who are close enough that I suspect they would tell me (friends for years, had to my wedding, etc.), I have had 5 tell me. Just because I think I am close enough to them doesn't mean they would have reason to tell me. I've just had the discussion/cry/vent sessions with 5 women. It sucks. People want to stick their head in the sand about it. What's more, a lot of the people, not just women, who are assaulted don't want to share their experiences. I don't blaim them. There are arse hats who will call them liars because somebody else lied. There is the low conviction rate. There is the minimal punishment for those that are convicted (one of my friends was raped by a guy 3 days after he got out of jail for rape). There is also the hesitance to make their friends and familly into secondary survivors. Finally many don't want their loved ones thinking about what they have gone through. Why share? I have the utmost respect for my friend who spoke at a take back the night rally in college. My hat is still off to her many years latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 I really have no honest opinion on how much it does and does not happen. I think there is a possibility that it's less than it was, say 10 years ago (no I have no proof), just because women are getting braver and coming out more than they use to. This is causing the "predators" to be more cautious. Again, I could be way out of line and totally incorrect, it's just an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 What's more, a lot of the people, not just women, who are assaulted don't want to share their experiences. I don't blaim them. There are arse hats who will call them liars because somebody else lied. This is another argument of why my opinion could be wrong. There are a lot of women and men that lie about being sexually assaulted that makes it difficult for the legit cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxBuddy21 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 I think it is wrong but the problem is that the line is so blurry that it is hard to enforce. There are girls out there who lie because they dont like something they chose to do. I dont think alcohol should be an excuse in the slightest. If you make decisions you are not happy with when you are drunk, you need to stop drinking. That doesnt give someone the right to take advantage of you either but if you cant say no when you are drinking, stop drinking! Then there are cases where the girl was going along with it and then changed her mind mid act. Yes the guy should stop at any point she says stop but that area gets a little gray as well. We have two big problems as a result of this. Either everything a girl says is right and believed and guys get in trouble no matter what or no one believes any girl because others have lied about it. Then of course there are the girls too afraid to come forward in the first place. Sexual assault is such a tough area to judge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dictator Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Anyway, the thread in the stadium was getting kinda heated, with some guys saying it hardly happens and many women make it up...to the guys who said it happens more than we think and we shouldn't draft Sanchez because of it. So my fellow tailgaters on ES...what say you? I know it happens far more than is reported. That thread in the stadium got distorted because one member was saying he/she kneow Sanchez did it. He had already held a trial in his/her mind and was convinced he was guilty. I think it's ridiculous Plummer can coach FB but that girl in CA can't coach cheerleader because she posed nude in PB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madison Redskin Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 My question is: Are there really that many guys out there who are willing to go through all that work, just so they can have sex with a girl who's passed out unconscious? Where's the guy's motivation, here? There are some losers who can't get women on their own. D-bags who need to resort to drugging a woman or plying a woman with alcohol to the point that she can't speak in order to have sex with them should have their jewels sliced off with a blunt knife. Seriously. Also, yes it happens quite often. Several of my closest female friends have been sexually assaulted and told me about their experiences in confidence and with a great deal of emotion. They weren't trying to elicit sympathy or get attention; most of them spilled their guts when something random triggered a memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 I think the number of females who lie about sexual assault in order to "get back" at a guy is dwarfed by the number of females who do NOT report a sexual assault in order to avoid humiliation and the stigma, feel there's nothing they can do, or because of misplaced guilt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 DC a month ago reported two teen girls raped at gunpoint then let go naked in public. I responded for all to hear that only weak and gutless trying to prove they aren't punks but failing do things like that and should be shot on sight by the girls fathers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 I know it happens far more than is reported. That thread in the stadium got distorted because one member was saying he/she kneow Sanchez did it. He had already held a trial in his/her mind and was convinced he was guilty. I think it's ridiculous Plummer can coach FB but that girl in CA can't coach cheerleader because she posed nude in PB. Thanks for taking a veiled and inaccurate shot at me. Sounds like the rest of your posts in that thread. As for the stats, here we go: One in four undergraduate women experience a sexual assault. One in ten are reported. Of those, one in ten go to trial. Of those, two percent are convicted. Even fewer, I don't have the exact stat right now, see a jail cell. Between 74 and 76% of all sexual assaults are perpetrated by someone known to the survivor. Depending on the source, one sexual assault occurs every 30 to 120 seconds. Over 75% of men surveyed in college try to get their dates drunk. I'll come back with more if you guys want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 This is another argument of why my opinion could be wrong. There are a lot of women and men that lie about being sexually assaulted that makes it difficult for the legit cases. Here's the thing: There are NOT "a lot" of women who do so. The rate of "false" reports, I put it in quotes because many women drop charges due to the trauma of the entire proceeding, to true reports is akin to the percentage of planes that crash versus those who land safely. How many times do safe-landing flights get reported in the news? Never. It's almost the same with "real" rapes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljs Posted April 21, 2009 Author Share Posted April 21, 2009 I saw so much of this in law enforcement, it's sad. On all levels, from molestation as a young girl by older male relatives (fathers, uncles brothers), to gang rapes where an 11 yr old girl was gang raped by 7 guys, who got less than a year in jail for it. To women who did lie about it... Not all accused are guilty, not all cases dismissed b/c the person was innocent...regardless of crime. I don't know many women who haven't been sexually assualted to some degree, and I'm not talking about workplace sexual harassment. What I can say is this, rape is one of the hardest crimes to prove and just because charges aren't filed, or the guy is found innocent, doesn't mean that it never happened. But, the same can be said for the opposite. I just believe that it does happen to more women/girls than you think...it also happens to more men than you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 I think even today that it happens much more often than we hear about. There is a degree of shame or embarrassment that prevent people from coming forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stickyshooZ Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 I am friends with a girl that's been raped twice. She didn't really do anything about it until years later. It's a traumatic experience and I imagine it's hard to think straight about what to do after something like that happens, especially when you're very young like she was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 I think one of the problems with sexual assault is that it's such an all inclusive term. Sexual assault can equal anything from inappropriate touching (a slap on the ass) to rape. While these are both highly inappropriate, IMO bc they get grouped together under the term sexual assault, rape and other more serious forms of sexual assault are devalued (if that is even the right word to use in this case). Yeah, just like all "sex offenders" aren't the same. Agreed. The terms are getting way over used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpillian Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 I think awareness of specifically date rape has increased significantly over the past decade or so. I think it has to have opened the eyes of girls as to possible dangers, and guys as to what they're not supposed to be doing. The latter seems like a CPT Obvious point, but it must not be. The whole "no means no" campaign and such. It seems to me that rape and molestation are both crimes that are extremely devastating to the victims, are difficult to prosecute, and can be very difficult to prevent. As a result, heightened awareness is really the only way to effectively respond. As to how often it actually occurs, who knows. My take is that most victims know that it's difficult to prove, and have already been traumatized/feel ashamed. As a result, I would not be surprised that a very small percentage of such sexual assault is reported, let alone successfully prosecuted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljs Posted April 21, 2009 Author Share Posted April 21, 2009 Thanks for taking a veiled and inaccurate shot at me. Sounds like the rest of your posts in that thread.I'll come back with more if you guys want it. I do agree that NC21 was not saying he was guilty, just advocating that it is more than likely true. But we all perceive things in a different light. And thank you for contributing NC21. Someone mentioned about how many college/young men try to get their date drunk. It's easier to get them to say yes. Reminded me of something at work a few months back. We had a couple new hire, young guys who were walking down the hallway past my office. I could hear them talking about how they were going to take a female co worker out and they were hoping to get her drunk enough so both guys "could get a shot". Subsequently, I made sure they got fired. I absolutely will not tolerate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stickyshooZ Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Reminded me of something at work a few months back. We had a couple new hire, young guys who were walking down the hallway past my office. I could hear them talking about how they were going to take a female co worker out and they were hoping to get her drunk enough so both guys "could get a shot". Subsequently, I made sure they got fired. I absolutely will not tolerate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 1 out of every 6 American women have been the victims of an attempted or completed rape in their lifetime (14.8% completed rape; 2.8% attempted rape).1 17.7 million American women have been victims of attempted or completed rape.1 9 of every 10 rape victims were female in 2003.2 While about 80% of all victims are white, minorities are somewhat more likely to be attacked. Lifetime rate of rape /attempted rape for women by race:1 All women: 17.6% White women: 17.7% Black women: 18.8% Asian Pacific Islander women: 6.8% American Indian/Alaskan women: 34.1% Mixed race women: 24.4% Men About 3% of American men — or 1 in 33 — have experienced an attempted or completed rape in their lifetime.1 In 2003, 1 in every ten rape victims were male.2 2.78 million men in the U.S. have been victims of sexual assault or rape.1 Children 15% of sexual assault and rape victims are under age 12.3 29% are age 12-17. 44% are under age 18.3 80% are under age 30.3 12-34 are the highest risk years. Girls ages 16-19 are 4 times more likely than the general population to be victims of rape, attempted rape, or sexual assault. 7% of girls in grades 5-8 and 12% of girls in grades 9-12 said they had been sexually abused.4 3% of boys grades 5-8 and 5% of boys in grades 9-12 said they had been sexually abused. In 1995, local child protection service agencies identified 126,000 children who were victims of either substantiated or indicated sexual abuse.5 Of these, 75% were girls. Nearly 30% of child victims were between the age of 4 and 7. 93% of juvenile sexual assault victims know their attacker.6 34.2% of attackers were family members. 58.7% were acquaintances. Only 7% of the perpetrators were strangers to the victim. Effects of Rape Victims of sexual assault are:7 3 times more likely to suffer from depression. 6 times more likely to suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder. 13 times more likely to abuse alcohol. 26 times more likely to abuse drugs. 4 times more likely to contemplate suicide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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