skinfan4ever Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 Game Stats only measure QBs somewhat. What really matters is wins and Campbell doesn't have many. Hopefully this will change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newera Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 Not having faith in Campbell is not an excuse. You still can't coach scared. That's the problem we coach and play scared. We play close to the vest. It probably makes Jason and Portis more timid of making mistakes, thus mistakes happen. Geez, let it go and just play to win. I'd rather go out emptying my barrell. Then by playing trying to hold on. We might be surprised at what happens. We see what playing not to lose has gotten us. If Campbell contines to make mistakes, it's on Jason. Jason did not call the two runs in a row at the goal line against Philly and the Giants. Typically a football game will come down to two are three critical plays in the fourth quarter. That third and eight with 1:40 left was a critical play. A first down would have ended the game. Thus no stress of trying to hold on. I remember thinking to myself after we handed off to Portis for the third time, "I hope we lose this game with this continued playing scared mind set. I didn't really mean it because I always want to win." But was I surprised when we lost, not really. You saw the Colts run out the clock yesterday by continuing to attack the Jags defense. They did try and sit on the lead. They had a mind-set of getting first downs aggressively. If you have a mind set of sitting on leads then you have a four year record of 26 -- 34. In four years. Gibbs did the same thing two years ago against Tampa. Likewise Arizona, except the guy missed the field goal. The reason we lose close games is because the coach won't allow us to go out and close the game. Joe clock watches in the fourth quarter and this timidness has permiated the pysche of the team Personally I thought second down was the down to do a play action pass -- the Bills knew we were going to run. Why? Because we are so damn predictable. The fact we are not executing effectively down in the red zone falls on the coaches. They need to spend all their time working on it in practice. This has been going on far too long to only blame Jason. Were was the no huddle offense yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 Did it ever occur that the coaches play a not to lose strategy instead of playing to win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 I wonder how many more TDs Jason would have if we had a WR over 4' tall? He has no big man to throw a jump ball to,, no one to run a fade, no one that can box out a safety and muscle a catch. Cooley, sure, but he's a TE, and every defense in the world knows he's the primary target because the tiny little WRs we do have must get separation through a pattern, and can't muscle or out-jump anyone. Because of this problem, it forces us to run conservative plays, because the chances for an INT goes up exponentially in the red zone for us. Defenders can gang our receivers and Campbell plain can't see them. As it is, anytime we get to the ten yard line, we may as well send in Suisham right away so we can save time for the inevitable comeback drive we have to run in the end. A BIG WR is a primary need, and a glaring weakness. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan4ever Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 It seems Gibbs has started to take more chances(going for 4th downs more,calling pass plays on the goal line,letting Campbell throw more) and the results still haven't paid off. I don't blame him for getting conservitive again after the last 4 games with all the turnovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownTownCharlieBrown87 Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 You can't blame any specific player to the poor season we're having, especially Jason! I'll admit, his constant high passes and overthrown deep passes are particularly frustrating, but if Romo sits to pee, P. Manning, or even the great Brady were behind our OL, then there would probably be similar results. YOU MUST PROTECT THE QB IN ORDER TO PASS EFFECTIVELY!! There are definitely people on this team we can blame and that is the ENTIRE COACHING STAFF starting with Joe Gibbs! He was once known as a QB development, playcalling, and halftime adjustment guru, but now those coaching skills are obviously gone. How many more games do we have to watch no halftime adjustments, poor clock management, & gutless playcalling in critical situations? I don't think the players believe in this coaching staff and their philosophy anymore. You can see it in their faces & hear it in their voices in their post game interviews, but they make politically correct statements not to make any "trouble". Joe Gibbs stated in game 1 that every week was going to come down to the wire, and I believe he allows teams to hang around so that it comes down to that. I can't think of any other logical reason, because it's obvious that this team is not being coached for improvement as evidenced by the same mistakes game after game, year after year. The real sad thing is the only team that truly beat us was the patriots, the other games we should've won, but was handed to them on a silver platter. It's painfully obvious that the game has passed Joe Gibbs, and it's time for him to retire for the better of this team. He looks old & confused on the sidelines now. It's his conservative philosophy that is killing this team. Stop blaming Al Saunders, b/c it's obvious who's calling the plays once the reach the red zone or short yardage situations! Any other coach would've already received the death penalty from Danny Boy. I love the old Joe Gibbs, but if he can't show up and coach, then the new Joe has to go!! :point2sky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 I wonder how many more TDs Jason would have if we had a WR over 4' tall?He has no big man to throw a jump ball to,, no one to run a fade, no one that can box out a safety and muscle a catch. Cooley, sure, but he's a TE, and every defense in the world knows he's the primary target because the tiny little WRs we do have must get separation through a pattern, and can't muscle or out-jump anyone. Because of this problem, it forces us to run conservative plays, because the chances for an INT goes up exponentially in the red zone for us. Defenders can gang our receivers and Campbell plain can't see them. As it is, anytime we get to the ten yard line, we may as well send in Suisham right away so we can save time for the inevitable comeback drive we have to run in the end. A BIG WR is a primary need, and a glaring weakness. ~Bang I give to you, James Hardy: http://iuhoosiers.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/hardy_james00.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newera Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 Well, to be fair, the most suprising of plays are also the highest risk, which exactly what we didn't want at that point. Thus, playing scared. The most successful people in life, take the most risks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 Do you know how limited we are because of a piss poor offensive line and receivers who get 0 seperation and poor playcalling? How many times have we heard #62 and #79 eligible and we still get 1 yd? Yesterday we went to a 4 WR formation with Yoder, Koz slot and Cooley in the other slot? How embrassing is that **** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRAB Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 As for Campbell sure his numbers haven't been great but for the level of experience he has in the nfl they aren't bad either.Campbell - 12 ints Eli Manning - 17 ints Drew Brees - 15 ints Carson Palmer - 15 ints Tony Romo sits to pee - 14 ints Vince Young - 14 ints Rivers - 13 ints Cutler - 13 ints Fumbles Campbell - 5 Cutler - 5 Warner - 5 Greise - 4 Vince Young - 4 Rivers - 4 I mean come on be a little bit realistic. It isn't bells and whistles but it isn't really bad considering the play of his o line and receivers paired with the awful playcalling. I'd say hes doin just fine. Those INT numbers are a little misleading. In comparing QB's you can't just look at one number. Actually you shouldn't neccessarily even look at numbers. It's much better to watch and form an opionion. But just looking at those INT number... we would think that Vince Young and Tony Romo sits to pee are about equal as QB's. We all know that there is no comparison. Young isn't anywhere the passer that Romo sits to pee is. Rivers and Cutler both have fewer INT's than Brees and Palmer. Are they better QB's than Brees and Palmer? Of course not. I know this thread is about Campbell's turnovers, so I understand where you're coming from. But just one set of numbers from QB's around the NFL is almost useless. Look at the number of TD's thrown: Campbell has thrown 12. Romo sits to pee has 33(!). Palmer has 21. Brees has 20. I think all of us would forgive Jason his 11 INT's had he thrown for 20 or 21 TD's. I KNOW we all would be fine if he had thrown for 33 TD's. Just think how many of those games we lost, we would have won if Jason had thrown for at least 8 more TD's like Brees. So Campbell has thrown for 3 fewer INT's than Romo sits to pee... but he's also thrown for 21 FEWER touchdowns. Twenty-one! The turnovers are acceptable if you're throwing plenty of TD's too. Jason is not. So, you can list Peyton Manning's turnovers and Tony Romo sits to pee's turnovers all you want... but it isn't a good comparison because those guys light up the scoreboard too and when all is said and done... throwing for more TD's in a game and winning is all that matters. Winning is the bottom line in the NFL. Those QB's win. They come through when it counts and they help their team's win. Jason hasn't shown he can do that. He's shown the opposite in fact. He throws the crucial pick or drops the ball when things are getting hecktic and time is running out. I want him to show he can do it... but he hasn't. Just look at the QB's who have thrown for fewer TD's than Jason: Garcia is ok... but he's thrown only 3 INT's. Garrard is ok... but he's thrown only 1 INT(!). Damon Huard... sucks and hasn't started all games Pennington... sucks and hasn't started that many Schaub... been hurt and isn't that good Dilfer... sucks Harrington... sucks and hasn't started many games Vince Young... not good as a passer Bulger... been hurt Boller... sucks Culpepper... sucks T. Jackson... sucks but is improving a lot lately Clemens... young and hasn't started many Grossman... need I say anything? Point is, those QB's that have thrown for fewer TD's than Campbell either: a) Take very few chances and so don't make mistakes like Garrard and Garcia Haven't started all their games c) Simply are bad QB's or d) Are some combination of a, b, and c. I want to give Jason the rest of this year... but if he doesn't start showing something, I want to bring in some competition for him next year from somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallMeGreen Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 I would like to see JC get sacked without fumbling one time. That would be nice. He didn't fumble on the safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 I wonder how many more TDs Jason would have if we had a WR over 4' tall?He has no big man to throw a jump ball to,, no one to run a fade, no one that can box out a safety and muscle a catch. Cooley, sure, but he's a TE, and every defense in the world knows he's the primary target because the tiny little WRs we do have must get separation through a pattern, and can't muscle or out-jump anyone. Because of this problem, it forces us to run conservative plays, because the chances for an INT goes up exponentially in the red zone for us. Defenders can gang our receivers and Campbell plain can't see them. As it is, anytime we get to the ten yard line, we may as well send in Suisham right away so we can save time for the inevitable comeback drive we have to run in the end. A BIG WR is a primary need, and a glaring weakness. ~Bang I think it's telling that Campbell lobbied the staff to acquire WR Anthony Mix, his 6'5" Auburn teammate. A big WR target is like a security blanket for a quarterback. He is more inclined to make a throw with confidence if he has a receiver that can go up and get a ball without having clear separation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiLfan Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 I just hate giving the ball back to anyone with less then 2 minutes to play. Its funny, but it seems like in the NFL the 2min offense in the 4th quarter against a tired defense is THE most successful method of scoring. Except, of course, when it's our two minute offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 It seems Gibbs has started to take more chances(going for 4th downs more,calling pass plays on the goal line,letting Campbell throw more) and the results still haven't paid off. I don't blame him for getting conservitive again after the last 4 games with all the turnovers. Sure he is taking a few more chances on things like 4th downs, but that doesn't change the fact that he continually STOPS doing what is working for us after we have a lead going into halftime. First half Cooley, Moss, even Caldwell are owning. Campbell is picking the D apart. True, our red zone offense blows but I think that has specific roots. Then what happens? We come out in the 2nd half and are running JUMBO? Yoder is in? Alexander? Cooley disappears, Moss disappears. We are running 1 or maybe 2 WR sets and max protect. It is just mind boggling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARLORD1863 Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 I wouldn't say he's a turnover machine, but he certainly isn't kid-clutch during pressure situations. When the heat really turns up, he falters. Now he's still developing and for the rest of the game he's pretty darn good, so I hope the ability to work under high pressure becomes an acquired trait that he soon gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 JC simply has 0 confidence in his offensive line.. Hell on the last play of the game when they rush three, he was flushed out of the pocket.. Fabini, Wade and Kenall are all really bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallMeGreen Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 Fumbles Campbell - 5 According to NFL.com, he's actually had 12 fumbles, 8 of them lost. That's 3 extra lost fumbles, and four other fumbles we were fortunate enough to get back. He's not that far behind the Warren Moon/Dave Krieg rate for QB fumbling. Moon had 160 fumbles over 17 NFL seasons (9.4 lost per season), while Krieg had 153 over 19 seasons (8.05 lost per season). Campbell, in 19 games has 8 lost. That's about 6.77 lost per season (figuring he's played about 1.18 seasons worth of games). The thing you can see is that opposing teams figure out who coughs up the ball a lot, then they attack that weakness. It could be this gets worse before it gets better. The INTs haven't bothered me too much yet. The one from yesterday wasn't really his fault. The defender tipped it away and the lineman made a very good dive for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinzFan007 Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 I give to you, James Hardy:http://iuhoosiers.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/hardy_james00.html I <3 James Hardy. Seriously, I jumped on this dudes bandwagon a month ago or so. Kids a special talent. I heard that he is gonna run a sub 4.5 40!! i love that second to last catch. the one overtop of the penn state corner in the endzone. that corner is justin king who is a 2nd round prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 I give to you, James Hardy:http://iuhoosiers.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/hardy_james00.html Just what the doctor ordered. We've got Anthony Mix.. 6'5".. go down and throw up a jump ball! See- "Randy Moss". I hate to see all of the blame being cast around when it has been as clear as the nose on my face what the problem is. We simply cannot score in the red zone, and I think the primary reason is the lack of a big WR. to be fair to the OL, the Bills have a very good defensive line. No excuse, just a fact. They still played sub-par. But if we score just ONE TD in those first three trips to the red zone, we're all having a better day today. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djotroy17 Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 Theres no such thing as good or bad quarterbacks, just good or bad offencive lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veretax Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 I'll be honest, I missed this turnover you are citing... :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 Its not even about Big Wr, we simply dont have a possession receiver. McCardell at his age can not be counted as one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 Just what the doctor ordered.We've got Anthony Mix.. 6'5".. go down and throw up a jump ball! See- "Randy Moss". ~Bang This kid Hardy also runs (I believe) a 4.2 40 and is a basketball player so you know he has a great vertical. I hope he flys under the radar enough to come to us in the 2nd or 3rd round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbws Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 Sorry, I'm not ready to pin the last 4 losses on the OL. Campbell takes too long to get rid of the ball and tosses bonehead int's at crunch time. He makes plays the last 4 weeks and doesn't turn the ball over, we probably would win at least 2-3 of those games. Bottom line is we only score about 17 points a game when you need at least 28 to win in today's NFL. I understand it goes much deeper than just Campbell, but Campbell is not living up to his billing, and his untimely turnovers have killed us the past 4 games. That is a fact and is indisputable my friend. Please. He's Light years ahead of PEYTON MANNING Let alone ELI at this point in their careers. Yes he has to learn to protect better. Yes he has to run downfield when it's there for him. Yes he has to Brunnell it out of bounds and line up again. He will get there. He is not the reason we lost yesterday. Run for 2, run for 3, incomplete pass and Punt Over and over again. If we had thrown it a few times on first down in the second half, we wouldn't have been in the position of moveing their game wnning FG 15 yards closer. We would have been taking a knee, even with the turnovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_cavalierman Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 Jason Campbell is getting killed by a offensive line that is just not as good as advertised. Samuels, Rabach and Thomas are good but the other 2 positions need upgrading. Kendall is a backup at this stage in his career and Jansen was slipping before he got hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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