ESPN - Reeling Redskins awash in troubles

[mistertim]

Wow. Well, I know I'm arriving late to the party, and most of what I will say has already been said, but I just finished reading the article and wanted to put my two cents worth in.

Gregg Williams is a good coach. Gregg Williams led our defense to top ten finishes two years in a row. He also built good defenses in Tennessee and Buffalo. Because of his history of success as a defensive coach, I find it hard to believe that he is primarily responsible for our defensive failings. Also, I think he has done well enough here to warrant giving him a chance to right the ship.

Joe Gibbs is a Hall of Fame coach. I think suggesting that he has lost the team to such an extent as this article claims is ridiculous. While I disagree with the hate directed at Gregg Williams, it is at least understandable. The hate directed at Gibbs is just ludicrous. I find it hard to believe that a Joe Gibbs team could have this kind of upheavel. If they do, then I think that Gibbs is the best man to fix it.

Regarding the anonymous source in this article, he is clearly one disgruntled dude. I would be willing to bet it is Adam Archuletta since he has more reason to be upset than anybody else. It must be someone with an axe to grind. Whoever is willing to disparage the team this way is the one most deserving of criticism. I find myself most upset not at Williams or Gibbs, but at the player who would so willingly disparage and undermine the franchise. I would be willing to bet that whoever it is was not part of the defense's recent success. As I said, my geuss is it was Adam Archuletta, not Washington or Springs as some have suggested. It would be too out of character for one of those guys to say such things, but Arch has been disgrunteld ever since training camp when he complained about how hard it was to adapt to the system. In fact, if this is his attitude, it would certainly explain why he is riding the pine.

Oh give me a break. You really think AA came out with this stuff, which included things from years past? You really think that GW's system, which proved a disaster in his last head coaching job, has no blame? Look at the quality players they let go and how they have all talked about his way of doing things and how it was horrible. So you decide to shoot the messenger and ignore the message. This isn't brand new stuff we're hearing about GW. This just an affirmation about how he is and what he may be doing wrong. I understand that the Kool-Aid tastes great but please don't let it put blinders on you.

[Drex]

The drama continues. This team has major issues.

[JimmyWilliamsFanClub]

Read my response on page 11 # 161. then tell me who you think it is.

If all of your information is true, you have a good argument.

It wouldn't surprise me, either.

[dfbovey]

EDIT : Disregard the following post. I have already been corrected on this.

I got news for ya.

ExtremeSkins fans do NOT hire head coaches.

When you say "everyone" had him shoed in for the next head coach job of the Skins, I am very certain that you're just referring to ES fan comments on this board. If not, then PLEASE provide a link to a story where a CREDIBLE AND QUALIFIED person indicated that the REDSKINS (AND NOT THEIR FANS) were considering him for the next vacancy.

You can't ruin your chances of getting a job that you were never truly considered for.

Dan Snyder might as well be a fan posting here on this forum. He runs the team more like a fan and less like a CEO.

And it's kinda naive for you to think that Snyder didn't have Williams pegged as Gibbs replacement when he signed him to that new contract.... you know, the one with the $1 million dollar clause? Sure, Snyder likes tossing around his money... but you don't write those kinds of clauses into contracts unless you are seriously considering hiring him as the next head coach.

[s0crates]

Read my response on page 11 # 161. then tell me who you think it is.

Can some one tell me how many years Shawn springs has left on his contract. The reason why I ask is Bram and Dexter Manly was discussing this artical on the friday night football show on xxx radio tonight. Dexter Manly knew this artical was coming out but did not know when. Dexter also stated that him and Tom Friend are very close and he knew who "the player was" . He said that it was someone in the redskins secondary and that he was a starter. on the show Dexter wrote down the number of the player who was interviewed by tom and showed it to bram. Bram response was" This player who was interviewed was a leader in the redskins secondary and is NOT EXPECTED TO BE HERE NEXT YEAR because he is at the end of his contract this year and wants out at the end. Bram and Dexter stated that they would not tell who it was out of respect of the player. HMMM! Sound like it ma y be Shawn Springs. Who ever it is,, I think is wrong for going to a reporter and complaining. As a man if you have a problem with someone or the team, you go to them with that problem, not to repoter. I think this is some ***** ass! ****. Girls do this not men. Dont go outside of the chain of command. I'm in the Navy and we live and die by that. He should have went to Joe gibbs with this insted of a punk ass reporter.:feedback:

So, according to this, the blabbermouth whiner is a leader, a starter, and in the last year of his contract. If I grant that this is right, although I don't see why I should, it still couldn't be Shawn Springs, since Springs is under contract until 2010.

Kenny Wright and Ade Jimoh are the only free agents in the secondary. I suppose it could be Kenny Wright, since he was benched recently. That would still support my claim that these comments probably came from an outsider, someone who wasn't here in 2004 and 2005.

http://www.skinsfans.com/pcinoz/Contracts%20Chart.htm

[Tarhog]

Its sad, hell, beyond sad to me that fans are almost universally inclined to believe every damn negative horrible thing written about our coaching staff.

As with most things the press write about, the truth is always far more complex than anything that can be spewed in a 2 page article.

But hey, let the blame game begin.

You guys crack me up. All I hear day after day is that we need continuity. That is, until the next day, when you all cry for someones head on a stick.

The players need to shut their millionaire ****ing yaps and start listening to their 'arrogant' coaches. If/when they start doing that, we might actually start winning some ****ing games.

[s0crates]

Thanks Tarhog! That is exactly what I was trying to say!

[Arsenic]

The word "Man" is used a lot in this article - my guess? It's Wynn.

[CGSKINS]

So, according to this, whoever it is a leader, a starter, and in the last year of their contract. If I grant that this is right, although I don't see why I should, it still couldn't be Shawn Springs, since Springs is under contract until 2010.

Kenny Wright and Ade Jimoh are the only free agents in the secondary. I suppose it could be Kenny Wright, since he was benched recently. That would still support my claim that these comments probably cam from an outsider, someone who wasn't here in 2004 and 2005.

http://www.skinsfans.com/pcinoz/Contracts%20Chart.htm

Shawn springs signed a 6 year deal. But in the next few years his pay sky rockets. So the skins have to Restructer is deal or releas him. I'm just telling you what I heard when they wher talking about it on the radio show. The player thay discribed sounded like him. Who else has that much knowledge. It cant be AA. He has not been here long enough. He talk about past players with great detail. Plus Springs body language has not been positive.

[Parlett316]

Its sad, hell, beyond sad to me that fans are almost universally inclined to believe every damn negative horrible thing written about our coaching staff.

As with most things the press write about, the truth is always far more complex than anything that can be spewed in a 2 page article.

But hey, let the blame game begin.

You guys crack me up. All I hear day after day is that we need continuity. That is, until the next day, when you all cry for someones head on a stick.

The players need to shut their millionaire ****ing yaps and start listening to their 'arrogant' coaches. If/when they start doing that, we might actually start winning some ****ing games.

So you don't think that Steven Jackson may be a problem? What about Williams losing his players? I mean, that has never happened before right?...oh wait it has.

There is major problems on this team but we could just put hands over our ears and scream LA LA LA LA LA.

[BuryYourDuke]

This article confirms what I've been saying for a year. Williams is arrogant as hell, and it's killing the defensive cohesion.

[mistertim]

Its sad, hell, beyond sad to me that fans are almost universally inclined to believe every damn negative horrible thing written about our coaching staff.

As with most things the press write about, the truth is always far more complex than anything that can be spewed in a 2 page article.

But hey, let the blame game begin.

You guys crack me up. All I hear day after day is that we need continuity. That is, until the next day, when you all cry for someones head on a stick.

The players need to shut their millionaire ****ing yaps and start listening to their 'arrogant' coaches. If/when they start doing that, we might actually start winning some ****ing games.

We need continuity in the roster; something that GW has failed to do when he really should have kept certain players. So suddenly they stopped doing what the coach told them? That is your explanation for this slump? They collectively sat together and said "F Williams, he doesn't know what he is doing, lets all just pretend to be really lazy out there and pretend to not care"? As I said before, they are getting paid a lot of money but they are still human beings and having a coach who degrades and humiliates players isn't exactly a solution for high morale. The blame lies in lots of places I am sure, but it isn't hard to tell that this is one of those places. Williams has a great mind for defense but he doesn't have the people skills to implement it over long periods of time unless it is doing well. I just don't think we should discount this article completely since some of it, even without the player commentary, fits what we already knew.

:2cents:

[CGSKINS]

Its sad, hell, beyond sad to me that fans are almost universally inclined to believe every damn negative horrible thing written about our coaching staff.

As with most things the press write about, the truth is always far more complex than anything that can be spewed in a 2 page article.

But hey, let the blame game begin.

You guys crack me up. All I hear day after day is that we need continuity. That is, until the next day, when you all cry for someones head on a stick.

The players need to shut their millionaire ****ing yaps and start listening to their 'arrogant' coaches. If/when they start doing that, we might actually start winning some ****ing games.

I feel you. I too am taking this article with a grain of salt. Who knows tho?

[s0crates]

Shawn springs signed a 6 year deal. But in the next few years his pay sky rockets. So the skins have to Restructer is deal or releas him. I'm just telling you what I heard when they wher talking about it on the radio show. The player thay discribed sounded like him. Who else has that much knowledge. It cant be AA. He has not been here long enough. He talk about past players with great detail. Plus Springs body language has not been positive.

Now you are changing the story. You said the player was at the end of his contract, not that his salary was increasing. Springs is not at the end of his contract. That is all I was saying. Regardless of the contract issues, I doubt it was Springs. He is probably unhappy about losing, but other than that he has no reason to be disgruntled. He is a starter, a well respected veteran, a team player, and has seen how well this system can work over the past couple season. Have you ever watched him on Monday Night Live or in postagme interviews? He is a happy guy. Besides, he hasn't even played enough this season to get frustrated. I really, really doubt it was him.

On the other hand, I could see it being Archuletta. He has been unhappy ever since he got here. Do you remember how he said he was having trouble adapting in training camp? Do you think he wanted to be relegated to special teams? He is a player who has reason to be disgruntled. However, there is no way to be sure it is him either.

It couldn't be Arch if that radio show you referenced is right, but if that is right it couldn't be Springs either. It could only be Kenny Wright or Ade Jimoh.

[s0crates]

The word "Man" is used a lot in this article - my guess? It's Wynn.

You must be kidding. No way it could be Wynn. Not only is Wynn a total team guy, but the article definately suggest that it is somebody in the secondary.

[Supreme Wu]

I think the off-record stuff was Archuletta too.

It mentions "the coaches havent talked to Archuletta in 4 weeks"

Do you really think anyone else besides Adam would be keeping track of the specific number of weeks that coaches haven't talked to him?

Imagine being at a job and commenting off the record "by the way my boss hasnt talked to Dan in four weeks." I don't see that info coming from anyone but Adam.

[SkinsHokieFan]

'

You guys should know better. Never believe all that you read. The only people that know are the ones knee-deep in this mess, and even they likely don't universally agree on 'whats going on'. If the author really knew the facts, he wouldn't have to rely on a single anonymous source (one who's motivations we cannot even pretend to know) for his information.

:laugh: mostly hearsay

it's easy to kick a dog when he's are down

The reason why I give valditiy to this article is because it is, as has been repeated all season "the same guys in the same system"

What has changed? Yea there is no Ryan Clark, and I think people have overblown his importance. He was a good player for the system, but him leaving should not have broken it

I don't know if anyone remember the season finale against the Vikes in 2004. We had Garnell Wilds and Sean Taylor shutting down Randy Moss and Duante Culpepper. Rookies, one being undrafted shutting them down.

Fast forward to this season. We all thought it was Shawn Springs, but its been clear since the Patriots game in the preseason this secondary is ill. And the disease is only getting worse

Tom Friend is a big Skins fan. You read his article and you can see this guy wants the Redskins to win. This isn't Peter King, Pastabelly, or Don Bankrupt writing this, this is Tom Friend, born and raised in DC, and as homerific as you can get.

[Tastes Like Chicken]

Just a few observations from a guy who sits near the field and has been to every home game & preseason home game and some training camp this year:

1. Jansen, Samuels and Rabach have looked 'off' since camp.

2. Countless #'s of times, I see members of the secondary pointing around, jawing at each other as the ball is snapped.

3. Sean Taylor looks absolutely lost this year. He doesn't even play like the same person.

4. Cushion Rogers is playing so far off the line of scrimmage that he may as well be a safety. He is more concerned with dancing after the play (even if he was beat like a drum and the receiver dropped the pass) than concentrating on intercepting the ball.

5. Most of the long plays we've given up come off of play-action pass.

6. We are on record pace for fewest turnovers by this team, ever.

7. We no longer swarm to the ball/gang tackle.

8. Marshall & Holdman are not getting the job done, while M. Washington has been underwhelming in general.

9. The Andre Carter experiment has failed, and he has been a liability vs. the run. Griff has been very quiet.

10. The fans in my section are among the best that I've been around; that being said, frustration is reaching a crescendo and every game there's more and more complaining/booing especially regarding the Defense.

[nebulah7]

Fire everybody!!!! Gibbs as well.... I'm so sick of all the cry baby stuff I could scream.... I don't care about egos... If williams is coaching with ego... get out!!! The only thing I care about is that this bunch of whining maggots starts to do what they're capable of. It's like looking at a '67 shelby cobra gt up on blocks. There is no excuse. If Gibbs had stuck with patrick last year we could have gone to the SB. If Gibbs puts the kid in out of the blocks this year, we would be playing for something this week. I'm sick of it. I don't need to know a thing about football to know that this bunch of money stealers can all stay home. I'd rather watch 2nd and 3rd stringers busting they're ass' than this spoiled rotten bunch. I give snyder credit for trying... but I so long for the days of JKC. I really can't say I'm sick of this enough.

YOUR ALL FIRED!!!! Pack your things and get out!!!! Now!!!!

[TeresaE]

I think the off-record stuff was Archuletta too.

It mentions "the coaches havent talked to Archuletta in 4 weeks"

Do you really think anyone else besides Adam would be keeping track of the specific number of weeks that coaches haven't talked to him?

Imagine being at a job and commenting off the record "by the way my boss hasnt talked to Dan in four weeks." I don't see that info coming from anyone but Adam.

This part of the story (about coaches not talking to AA) wasn't off the record. It was directly attributed to AA's agent who would certainly know about such things, so it's not all that surprising. All that it means is that the reporter got his info from more than one source, but it has nothing to do with the identity of the player who anonymously bad-mouthed the coaches. Bram said it was a CURRENT starter, a LEADER in the secondary. Neither of those things is true of AA. It's either Springs or ST. But, it really doesn't matter who it is - what matters is what was said and how dysfunctional this team is right now. And if it's true that Williams and Jackson haven't spoken to AA since the bye week, what does it say about them as coaches? GW seems to love to give players the "silent treatment". Remember what happened with Lavar? The problems with the "D" are real and deep and go far beyond individual players. You don't need to read this article to realize that. All you have to do is to have watched them play starting in preseason and going right up to last week's game. The "D" is sinking faster than the Titanic and when things are that bad, you'd be a fool not to look at the coaches. This article just confirms what I have been thinking for quite some time.

[s0crates]

6. We are on record pace for fewest turnovers by this team, ever.

Wow! Really? That sucks!

9. The Andre Carter experiment has failed, and he has been a liability vs. the run. Griff has been very quiet.

Yeah. Maybe we should put Wynn back in. At least he was good at stuffing the run.

[AllAboutSkins08]

i don't know what to say...

i really don't know what to say....

[Dirk Diggler]

Archuleta was definitely a contributor for this article. He's trying to force the Redskins hand to release him and this is one way to do it. He realizes he banked too much bonus money to get released after one season and is worried about riding the pine into his 30s. That is, unless he becomes enough of a disturbance ala Arrington. This is far less "in your face" but it could achieve the same end.

[Bangee7]

First, I want to say that nobody should be fired immediately, but a thorough analysis should be undertaken. I would've hoped it had begun weeks ago.

Tarhog, your defense of GW is admirable.

However, the fact that you have met him, enters bias into the mix.

The fact that you are likely to run into him again (should he survive this onslaught),

makes you even more suspect to bias.

I agree that a grain of salt needs taken here with the article, but something is

very, very wrong and this does help to explain some of the issues.

I am sick to my stomach that Gibbs has allowed this, that GW has allowed this.

And by that I mean, the 3-7 hell that we're all living (again!).

We have a dysfunctional team with whistle blowing and charges of corruption and incompetence.

We'll get a good measuring stick of how much is "steam" and how much is fact over the coming weeks. Lies will be debated, not only by coaches, but by players themselves. If you start hearing a lot of no comment and we keep team matters in the locker room- well, everyone can decide for themselves.

Either way, it is an ugly mess and clearly out of control.

[CGSKINS]

Now you are changing the story. You said the player was at the end of his contract, not that his salary was increasing. Springs is not at the end of his contract. That is all I was saying. Regardless of the contract issues, I doubt it was Springs. He is probably unhappy about losing, but other than that he has no reason to be disgruntled. He is a starter, a well respected veteran, a team player, and has seen how well this system can work over the past couple season. Have you ever watched him on Monday Night Live or in postagme interviews? He is a happy guy. Besides, he hasn't even played enough this season to get frustrated. I really, really doubt it was him.

On the other hand, I could see it being Archuletta. He has been unhappy ever since he got here. Do you remember how he said he was having trouble adaptring in training camp? Do you think he wanted to be relegated to special teams? He is a player who has reason to be disgruntled. However, there is no way to be sure it is him either.

It couldn't be Arch if that radio show you referenced is right, but if that is right it couldn't be Springs either. It could only be Kenny Wright or Ade Jimoh.

Bro I'm not changing my story. You posted a response to my post. you had a link attached to yor post. I looked a Springs contract and thats what I stated when I said. " Shawn was signed to a 6 year deal. In few years his pay sky rockets. The redskins have to restructure his deal or they can release him" Thats what I said. Now! What Bram said was this player was at the end of his contract and wants out. Now maybe Bram did not know the details of Springs contract. But he said tha this guy is a "STARTER AND A LEADER" Key word being( STARTER AND LEADER In the redskins secondary). Who do you think it is? It could be springs or whoever. Like I said. I'm just telling you what I heard on the show. If you dont believe me than thats on you. I have No reason to lie.