ESPN - Reeling Redskins awash in troubles

[Love_Them_Dirtbags]

Shawn Springs must be the leaker. I can't see it being Rogers (too young, would be too scared of ruining his future by mouthing off like that), and it's got to be someone in the secondary with experience from last year. Besides, Springs has a history of mouthing off.

God, Gibbs must be furious about all of this. As we all know, he can't stand it (understandably) when players air their dirty laundry in public.

What an earth-shattering article, though. Wow. I'm still absorbing it all. I don't know what the answer is. What's frustrating is that at a minimum, we know that Williams is shaky, and not the rock-solid defensive coordinator we thought he was. During Gibbs 1, Petitbon was so trustworthy/rock-solid that Gibbs could pay full attention to the offense. Not so anymore.

[RedskinsFan72]

great article and explained some of the questions i had. Was it the scheme, the play calls or the lack of player talent to work within the scheme?

Turns out its a little of each.

Now that the cat's out of the bag, maybe Williams' eyes will be opened and correct whats happening. I dont think his job should be in danger after this season. 2 good years, one bad year. he deserves 1 more year to correct the defense, if next year is a repeat of this year, then yes, he should be booted.

[Die Hard]

Amazing article, pretty much proves to me that Gibbs has officially lost it. If the team can be that fractured internally, you've got to point to the top.

Agreed. This all falls back on Gibbs. Even allowing the secondary to subdivide individual meetings.

So they hired Jerry Gray and kept Jackson on to coach the safeties?

Sorry Joe.... but you've lost it. Time to go.

[Nugget1616]

Worst friggin article I've ever heard. Despressing to the point that it may affect my ability to support my beloved skins. All of us had NO idea that the basic fabric of our team was in fact rotten. This is sports, and the team that article described is not what sports are about . . . what's inspiring about sports. Aweful, aweful, aweful.

Anyway, this reaks of Springs. To add to this theory . . . the author, Friend, was the closest writer to Maurice Clarett throughout the past couple years, on a personal level way beyond journalism. Springs and Clarett . . . both Ohio State boys. Is this a stretch, quite possibly. But possibly not.

(Vomits)

[rsc]

I think it's safe to say that Gibbs isn't going to fire GW at this point in the season. Especially right after this article has appeared. Now that some light has been shed on some of these problems, we'll see if any "changes" will be made. By changes I mean things that we as fans might not know about. If nothing changes in the way the defense performs in the next few games, there will only be a hand full of games left in the regular season and Joe will wait until the off-season to make staff changes.

This is a damn shame. This is a proud franchise with world class fans and a head coach who deserves better. BUT, the head coach made this situation. He has to fix it.

I think this is one thing you can't blame on the owner. Some might say that it's his willingness to spend whatever, but Gibbs has recommended that route of building with FA's. Like an earlier post, this is a kick in the balls (or gut, face) whatever.

I have to compliment Friend again, great piece of journalism.

[Uno Boss]

I Dont give a damn who the source is....even if it is AA I still think its all true...

It could actually be put together by AA agent to create mutiny...who knows But i feel

There were to many things said in the article that people can see on there own...

1. Everyone Knows Williams is an A-hole as far as attitude goes.

He has taken the credit for being in control of actual talent. in 2004

Since then

Everyone has seen the patern of declining defensive numbers everytime he lets talent walk out the door.

In 2004 we finished 4th and he let talent walk out of the door after the season

So In 2005 we played bad for the most part but came on late..and finished 10th

"After we got more take aways" and he altered the pass rushing "

After the season..

He lets more talent walk out of the door and looses a few to injury which leaves us last in the League. in 2006

Thats proves that its his stubborn "Scheme over Talent attitude" thats the problem

2.In the article it said that the Corners would call one thing and the safeties would say "What are you doing we didnt go over that"....

The play on the field this year proves it so it cant be made up.

Wiliams plays favorites to a fault

He keeps his guys who are use to his antics and will sit quietly and lets the others leave or sit the bench.

The good thing is Williams has enough rope now to hang himself with....

Our D is now at full strength as far as major injury is concerned

So either our Defense steps us and makes plays the rest of the way and lives up to its past or GW and his Coaches are out of here.

Snyder doesnt give a damn about that extra million ...

Because its Cheaper to keep the players like Carter ,Arch and others and get a coach who will scheme to fit their abilities

if the O Improves and shows promise under Campbell.

Saunders can now play himself into his Head Coaching job after Gibbs retires

:gaintsuck:point2sky:eaglesuck:dallasuck:point2sky

[James Moss]

I just read the article and was blown away as well.

You can’t have a bunch of great coaches work together unless they all check their egos. Joe Gibbs sets the example for all of them but without a strong moral center, money and power corrupts. Sounds like this is what has happened.

Well, it sounds like most here have drawn the conclusion that G. Williams is the biggest problem and that would be very tough to argue against since he is supposedly in charge but this guy Steve Jackson sounds like the biggest problem to me. I mean—you’ve got to be kidding me? Holding his own private safeties meetings excluding cornerbacks? How much more unprofessional can someone be? Jackson is being paid a lot of money to do his job and a very big part of his job is working with others—not against them.

Yes, as I said, Williams rubber stamped the hiring of him, so ultimately it is his fault, but this Jackson sounds like the one coach out of all of them that screwed up the coaching chemistry. Pouting on the sidelines? Not coaching players? Not speaking in meetings? This is a joke, right? This is a multimillion dollar franchise. By agreeing to pay their salaries, Mr. Snyder has entrusted his team in these men and yet they sound like they are behaving like children. That is pathetic. If I was paying that kind of money to an employee and they were behaving like that; I’d be doing more than putting my fist through a wall. I’d be putting my foot up somebody’s keister!

[evucci]

Wow- great read.

[TeresaE]

I think GW is a great coach when things are going well. His "in your face" style seems to work like magic when everything is clicking. However, he seems to be totally clueless as to how to "coach up" players who are struggling or underachieving. When things start to go south, his reaction is to treat the player like s**t, as if that's the way to inspire them and build up their confidence. But, a truly gifted coach wears many hats - tough taskmaster and a drill sargeant at times, but at other times a confidante, a booster, and someone who's willing to change their approach if things are not working. Sad to say, GW only seems to wear one hat and he wears it arrogantly - that of camp commandant. That, to me, is not the essence of a good coach nor the hallmark of any good manager, regardless of the field of business. Many of his hand-picked assistant coaches seem to follow his lead, only compounding the problem in the players' eyes.

I can understand why this anonymous player chose to go to the press. To do anything else would mean his head on a chopping block. After all, he's already seen this happen to a former teammante (Lavar) and to a current teammante (AA) - so why shouldn't he fear the same type of treatment if he went to the coaches with his issues? On the other hand, it's obvious this player is so frustrated that he needed to find a way to air his grievances in the hopes that SOMEONE in the Skins hierarchy would so something, anything about this mess.

Can GW change? I guess it's possible, but not probable at this point in his life and career. What we've seen is what we're probably going to get. That's why I don't hold out much hope for the resurrection of our "D", as long as GW and his minions are here.

[Chants]

Great read indeed.

THAT, my friends, is "sports jounalism" at its hardcore finest.

[casey56]

That is a hardcore article. I had no idea that this crap was going on, but it explains a lot about what's wrong with the defense. The cover 2 defense is now our achilles' heel. And how the hell can anyone think it's okay for the safeties and corners to meet seperately? No wonder we have secondary problems. And then on top of that Steve Jackson cries about losing his authority. Screw him, he needs to be fired today, not at the end of the season. That made me angry reading that.

[fpickering]

I am sorry to say it but there is no doubt in my mind that jackson and williams both need to go.

They have lost the respect of their team.... it is too late for them.

[Thirtyfive2seven]

Sorry Joe.... but you've lost it. Time to go.

Are you honestly suggesting that Joe should retire at the end of the season

I don't think so. Depending on his health he should take over the reins and in the process take control back of this team. Only he can do it. This has turned in the steve Spurrier show!

[kovachs]

This problem also comes back to the lack of a GM. Can Williams coach? Yes he can. Does he know how to pick players and put a defense together? I would argue the answer is no. After three years the cupboard is bare talent wise as a lot of the players are gone from the first year and year after year the defense has gotten worse

[fansince62]

amazing!

when there's no daddy rabbit to provide adult supervision this is what happens!

[fuji869]

What is even more funny is that after I said that, I had numerous people on this site tell me that I was not a real Redskin fan and that I had no idea what I was talking about.

I am a real fan. I love my team. Just ask my friends about how passionate I am about the Redskins.

Here is the thing. You can be a fan and not be a Homer. I will not be a homer. This organization has SERIOUS problems. Things are bad. But guess what..? That’s right I still love my Redskins. Always have and always will.

Being a Redskin fan is like having a child that is always in and out of jail. You find yourself asking why I put up with it and why am I always there for them. You want to believe, but deep down inside you know that they are only going to disappoint you again. But you do believe, maybe, just maybe, some day things could be the way they use to be.

Good post Gimpy and I agree with you 100%. I too have been accused of not being a real fan for:

Disagreeing with firing Marty

Disagreeing with brining in Spurrier

Telling Mr Snyder “Take his a** back to Corporate American because he sux as an owner” during the whole Spurrier Mess.

Me understanding Brian Mitchell’s bitterness for being cut

My calling people out for bashing Brad Johnson

Posting that in the 2002 NFC Championship (Tampa Bay vs. Philadelphia) that Either Brand Johnson or Brian Mitchell would get the last laugh on Daniel Snyder because they would be going to the Super Bowl.

Accused of calling Joe Gibbs a liar after posting that the starting QB Job was Mark Brunell’s to lose in the 2004 preseason.

Yep, I guess I am not a “True” Fan either because I do not support every thing this team does 100%. All the money I have spent on Redskin Gear, all the trips I have made to see Redskin Games and all my knowledge of Redskin Football just does not classify me as a “True” Fan.

:soapbox:

OK I am off of my soapbox now.

[bbuzz1962]

This goes to show how bad things can get when a coach thinks he's better than the team. You can tell in his pressers that he thinks he is all that. Always a way to do something better. You know, if he was doing his damn job, he wouldn't have to worry about the questions he has been getting.

Gibbs should have caught this long before it got to this point. I am more upset that Gibbs didn't do anything about this until now, when everyone else has read the same article. I think Williams is definetely out this off season. To think your system is why you are successfull, then you are in for a huge let down. As the article stated, to lose the defense players we lost, and replace them with guys that aren't as good, is now clearly obvious. It isn't the system Williams, it is the players in the system.

Now that he will lose his job, and I am sure he will, we can develop a defense that is consistent, and keep the same players as long as we can afford them. I just hope it isn't too late. The only good thing that came from this, was it exposed how bad our offense, and the quarterback really was. It was the defense last season that saved this teams ass, and led them into the playoffs. Now that our defense is the worst in the league, it exposed our weaknesses.

I just hope this team gets their act together this offseason, and plays with some passion and heart. Without either of these, it could be another long season.s

[fpickering]

before today i was one of G. williams' biggest supporters. But if this article is true, then you know what &*%$ GREG WILLIAMS. If you are so damn arrogant and foolish to think that schemes alone win games, and not players, then $%& you and your punk arse defensive coaches!!!! I'm sick and tired of this bull *&%!!!. This P.O.S., allowed Smoot, Pierce, Clark, and Harris go because they were "expendable", well you know what? we are 30th in the damn league.

The issues with the out of control egos became apparent last year with the blackballing of Lavar. Although we could all see that sticking with Holdman was a liability, Gregg would not make a change.

Obvioulsy, we made the right move in not retaining Lavar but I don't agree with not playing a guy who can help you win football games just to make some kind of power tripping point. Many posters here called it like they saw it and labeled it as a personal issue and not one related to performance....and in my opinion they were right.

Now things have continued and have snowballed. We have surpassed the point of no return. By the way, what kind of defensive coach uses the cover 2 on obvious run plays? I admit that I am not a defensive coordinator but it is clear to even the layperson that Williams has lost his team and his scheme has been atrocious. He has to go.

[fpickering]

a coaching staff doesn't suddenly forget how to coach in one season

especially the ones with the pedigree as the Skins have

people believe what they want, no real evidence needed

Would you call a cover 2 in obvious run situations?

[zoony]

Anyone consider the disgruntled player might be AA?

:idea:

[Jimbo]

Tom Friend has always been pretty fair where the Skins are concerned so it's hard to badmouth what he has to say. The article is pretty damning and really leads me to believe what I've been suspecting all year......too many Chiefs (and highly paid ones at that) and not enough quality Indians.

Joe Gibbs is going to have to take a long hard look at what he has put into place following the season.

[fpickering]

Can some one tell me how many years Shawn springs has left on his contract. The reason why I ask is Bram and Dexter Manly was discussing this artical on the friday night football show on xxx radio tonight. Dexter Manly knew this artical was coming out but did not know when. Dexter also stated that him and Tom Friend are very close and he knew who "the player was" . He said that it was someone in the redskins secondary and that he was a starter. on the show Dexter wrote down the number of the player who was interviewed by tom and showed it to bram. Bram response was" This player who was interviewed was a leader in the redskins secondary and is NOT EXPECTED TO BE HERE NEXT YEAR because he is at the end of his contract this year and wants out at the end.

The only players in our secondary that are free agents after this season are:

Fox

Jimoh

Wright

[Uno Boss]

Anyone consider the disgruntled player might be AA?

:idea:

I thout so at first but after looking again

It cant be Arch because the player had too much insight as to how the team played last year..and how they started playing better after GW changed things up

[TeresaE]

Anyone consider the disgruntled player might be AA?

:idea:

No way. What's quoted in the article comes from a player with a bit of history here. Also, Bram clearly indicated it's a current starter in the secondary and a leader on the team. Neither is descriptive of AA.

It's so tempting to blame everything on AA isn't it? Because it means you can, once again, hide your heads in the sand and pretend it's all the work of one, disgruntled player.

Well, wake up and smell the coffee. This ain't AA and the problems discussed are deep, widespread and real. If you want to believe it's AA, go ahead. But he hasn't been playing much since the bye and the D's play has deteriorated even more in his absence. Last week he was the starter, the D was ranked 26th. Now, we're 32nd.

Maybe AA is also to blame for Brunell's poor play, for Lloyd dropping the long pass from JC, for Novak missing a FG, for Carter getting blocked out of nearly every play, for ST missing tackles and receivers, for Rogers playing too far off of the line, for Jackson's pouting, for Holdman's horrible play at LB . . . Did I miss anything?

[zoony]

^^^^ Unwad the panties... this is a discussion board. As in, throwing things out for discussion.