Henry Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 Maybe this article is spot-on. Maybe not. I always take articles with one, uncorraborated source with a grain of salt. However, the one thing I took from it as cold hard fact was that a player was trashing his coach. That's a very very bad sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ_Skins Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 I think the article only gives one side of the story, but this goes some way in explaining to me what had previously been unexplainable in the way Ramsey was knee-capped. Maybe Gibbs is not immune to being influenced by Williams when it comes to treatment of players, and Snyder/Cerrato when it comes to personnel... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
six4g Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 I recall during the whole Lavar fiasco from last year, there was alot of talk on this board about how arrogant the defensive coaching staff was (i.e. Williams and Blanche). There have been several references made to the fact that this is basically the same pattern that occured in Buffalo with Williams. I've been a Greg Williams supporter from his first day here. I think everyone here was sold because we had the type of defense that devoured opposing offenses. However, his ego has clearly gotten the best of him. How could it not at $5 million a year? Think about it, Gibbs gave him free reign over the defense. Hell, hasn't had to answer to a sole about defensive decisions since he signed on here. He's a freaking coordinator with more power than the average NFL head coach. How do you as a d-coordinator allow your assistants to to split your secondary into 2 separate groups? Truth be told this defense was good before GW got here. Marvin Lewis had the foundation in place. Sad thing is, GW has chased all of that talent out of town. Gibbs needs to do something about this before they irrevocably ruin Sean taylor. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bat~man Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 main thing that concerns me is the fact that the safeties and CBs dont meet together , no frikin wonder they arent on the same page , that is a total joke , and taylor will be fine , hes having a down year for sure but once they thin some of these not needed coaches out , get back to basics , things will be better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ_Skins Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 One more thing-- I think a lot of this would not be happening if we built through the draft instead of free agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallntfox Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 However, the one thing I took from it as cold hard fact was that a player was trashing his coach. That's a very very bad sign. Indeed. That was what left the biggest impression on me as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSteve Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 To those saying it is Archuleta you're wrong. The player is commenting on events that have taken place before he got here. I think it's Sean Springs or Carlos Rogers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskin81 Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 Maybe this article is spot-on. Maybe not. I always take articles with one, uncorraborated source with a grain of salt.However, the one thing I took from it as cold hard fact was that a player was trashing his coach. That's a very very bad sign. Ya know I thought so at first. But maybe Williams has lost his players. When that happens more times than not the coach never regains them. If he really is that arrogant than we need to seriously think about a change there. Gibbs has said all along that he is willing to change ANYTHING that might help this team. If Williams has to be the change than so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggoReincarnated Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 Its pretty clear that we're at the point where all we care about as fans is finding someone to burn in effigy. I understand it. I'm bitter over the steps back we've taken this season. I'm frankly tired as hell of buying into my team's promise again and again, year after year, only to see them collapse. I'm really sick of it.But while I hold Snyder and the coaches accountable for our wasted season, I think players are always responsible to a much larger degree for success and failure on the field. These coaches, every damn one of them, have PROVEN they know how to coach and can get the job done at the NFL level. They're not getting it done this year, but I'm not ready to bail on all of them yet. And I'd love to know who the players running off to the press to ***** and fingerpoint are....I'm guessing some of them are the ones Coach Gibbs was talking stridently to earlier this week. That didn't take long, did it? True, but letting Jackson and Gray run individual meetings is asinine to say the least. It explains the lack of communication in our secondary. If Gibbs lets Gregg Williams run the defense, and Williams knew this but didn't do anything about it, ultimately he should be on the chopping block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 True, but letting Jackson and Gray run individual meetings is asinine to say the least. It explains the lack of communication in our secondary.If Gibbs lets Gregg Williams run the defense, and Williams knew this but didn't do anything about it, ultimately he should be on the chopping block. IF its true....its possible that they've had combined meetings AND separate meetings. You shouldn't take everything you read at face value. And even if it is true, its hardly grounds for anyone's head being on the 'chopping block'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 Ya know I thought so at first. But maybe Williams has lost his players. When that happens more times than not the coach never regains them. If he really is that arrogant than we need to seriously think about a change there. Gibbs has said all along that he is willing to change ANYTHING that might help this team. If Williams has to be the change than so be it. Well, either the coach is the problem or some of the players are the problem, but there most definately IS a problem when a player is trashing a coach like that to the media. A problem beyond the team just sucking. That's what I'm saying. ... I blame Brunell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggoReincarnated Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 Well, either the coach is the problem or some of the players are the problem, but there most definately IS a problem when a player is trashing a coach like that to the media. A problem beyond the team just sucking. That's what I'm saying.... I blame Brunell. But the player didn't come out publicly. Its not the same as Lavar last year where everyone could put a finger on him. I have the feeling that the sentiments displayed by this player are widespread. But the player must still respect Gibbs or something about the organization, otherwise don't you think he would complain publicly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 But the player didn't come out publicly. Its not the same as Lavar last year where everyone could put a finger on him.I have the feeling that the sentiments displayed by this player are widespread. But the player must still respect Gibbs or something about the organization, otherwise don't you think he would complain publicly? Maybe, maybe not. It's hard to say. I'm sure they respect Gibbs but it is probably more than one thing that keeps them from going public. Either way, a player even off the record saying that stuff is pretty bad. Whether you see it as a player with an axe to grind, a player who needs to man up and come out and say it publicly, or a player who is really just venting frustration and is telling the truth (or part of it) to try and get a possible change...it is still bad news for the team all around. I am guessing...from the way he talked and things he said that it might very well be Springs. Archuleta has never really been an outspoken guy and doesn't tend to say much in interviews. Springs has always been more outspoken and ready to talk about issues. But who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSF Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 My point is, you can't define 'arrogance'. Win, and arrogance morphs into 'confidence', 'brashness', 'strength of character, 'conviction', and 'aggressive decision-making'. Lose, and you're full of hubris, 'bullheaded', 'intransigent', '****y', and 'stubborn'. I agree that arrogant is a subjective word, but it's hard to dispute that there has been a pattern of disrespect from Williams towards his players. First you have the stories from Buffalo, then you have Pierce, who felt so disrespected that he's still talking about it 2 years later. Lavar...well I agree that he was a "me player", but Williams and Lindsay pretty much disgraced him. I knew in my guts there was a problem when I saw Ryan Clark's final interview as a Redskin on comcast. He's a real young looking kid, and you could just see the look of disgust and betrayal on his face. Fast forward to this season, and we've got Pam Oliver talking about chemistry problems amongst the coaches and players before the cowboys game. Springs, Taylor, and Rogers, who all played at a very high level last season all look lost out there, looking at each other after every big play they give up as if to say, "who's supposed to be covering that guy?", and we find out that the safeties and corners aren't even meeting together or coached by the same guy. That little nugget was probably the most mind numbing bit of info in the whole article. I think it's pretty obvious that the anonymous player is Shawn Springs. He's a student of the game, and he's been visably aggravated in his many interviews on comcast. It's not Archuletta b/c there's way to much info there about how they were playing last year. We know it's not Taylor, who talk to noone, and Los is just a quiet southern kid. I hate to face it, but I think there is probably a lot of truth to this article. There's just been way too much smoke to not think there are some fires burning under there somewhere. My first reaction was to think that Williams is gone, but that really wouldn't be Gibbs' style. Gibbs has always been very loyal to his coaches. My guess is that Jackson will be gone, and Gibbs will plea to Williams to check his ego at the door and conduct himself in the respectful manner that Gibbs always has. It's easy to see that Williams has tremendous respect for Gibbs, and I actually think thiscould turn out to be a learning experience for all involved. It's a damn shame though that things had to get this bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southskinsfan Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 I think Gibbs will get this fixed. Some may have to go such as Sanders and Williams but I firmly belive this will get fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QShip Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 Does Gibbs still have the energy it will take to correct this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 I think Gibbs will get this fixed. Some may have to go such as Sanders and Williams but I firmly belive this will get fixed. I don't think Saunders needs to go. He is, from all accounts, a very positive and energetic coach. It has taken a while for us to get used to his schemes but I think that now that we have Campbell in there and can stretch the field a bit we will see more from it. Having Portis back next year as well as Moss whenever he comes back will be a major plus, as well as any possible good offseason OL pickups. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 how many of these type articles have been proved to be bogus or exaggerated at best common sense people, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskin81 Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 Well, either the coach is the problem or some of the players are the problem, but there most definately IS a problem when a player is trashing a coach like that to the media. A problem beyond the team just sucking. That's what I'm saying.... I blame Brunell. Oh theres no doubt that its huge problem. And your right our problems run much deeper that this team just sucking. Its probably a combo of Williams and some of the players. At some point in time we have to decide if these problems can be fixed or if they need to be removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
six4g Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 But while I hold Snyder and the coaches accountable for our wasted season, I think players are always responsible to a much larger degree for success and failure on the field. These coaches, every damn one of them, have PROVEN they know how to coach and can get the job done at the NFL level. They're not getting it done this year, but I'm not ready to bail on all of them yet. And I'd love to know who the players running off to the press to ***** and fingerpoint are....I'm guessing some of them are the ones Coach Gibbs was talking stridently to earlier this week. I think maybe its not a question of whether they can coach or not. Yes history says Williams is a great D-coordinator. Yeah, history say's Gibbs is a great coach; Hall of Famer as a matter of fact. However, present day evidence says that maybe Williams ego and belief in his scheme above player abilities, has once again caused him to lose his connection with his claim to fame; his defense. It also says that the before mentioned Hall of Famer, Gibbs, needs to turn off the auto-pilot and grab the wheel of this team, and stop allowing the junior pilots to steer the ship in whatever direction seems good for "his" part of the team. Truth is, no matter who the inside source is, the article touches on too many points that have been the topics of discussion in countless threads on this site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herb mul-key Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 There ahve been other threads with ES member such as me suspecting as much for a while...this team has not reflected Joe Gibbs this season...easy to see why now...he is over delegating... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meek Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 After reading some of the other posts, I've been convinced that Springs is in fact the source of the article. The big question that sticks out to me is what was the point of staying anonymous. If we can put 2 and 2 together and figure out that it was Shawn, you can be damn sure the staff can as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 how many of these type articles have been proved to be bogus or exaggerated at bestcommon sense people, Example? An article where an unnamed Skins player came out and gave details about what is wrong with the coaching and system to a pretty credible reporter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackest Eyes Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 FANTASTIC article man. great post. if i could award you forum reputation points, i totally would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsfan1311 Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 The article is kind of a bummer. How much of it is true? Who knows? I know this much. Lose the sloppy and missed tackling and we wouldn't be reading thest types of articles...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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