NoCalMike Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 BJ sounded like Fedor sounded after his latest loss. Almost acknowledging it is time to retire, but not quite sure if they will. BJ sounded more convinced though. I mean he basically said he felt he lost the fight, and thought Fitch won the decision, and said if he would have got the loss he would have had to "consider things" but since the gods were blessed him with a draw he would give Fitch a rematch if that is what is in the cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 to be fair the koscheck fight should have been stopped if you see that Dana blog video Josh has nerve damage and can't even run because of his eye. I don't think the strikeforce commentators wanted the fight to end they just go along with the doctors orders. yeah doctors have to be independent operators they have to protect the fighters, even if that means stopping a fight too soon. fighters in general will continue fighting even if they're seriously injured it might be suck for that fight, but i'd rather a doctor stop a fight early, then stop it too late Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick86L Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 http://ironforgesiron.com/2011/02/ufc-127-penn-vs-fitch-teh-gifs/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 [/color]Yeah BJ sounded broken. GSP pistol whipped Fitch in their first fight I don't see anything different happening in a rematch. Speed difference. I think that's part of Fitch's new diet plan that has positioned him to cut less weight. GSP was just too fast for Fitch and because GSP is technically sound Fitch was unable to use his strength to counter. I think Fitch is changing his life to get faster and lighter on his feet in preparation for a GSP rematch. We all knew BJ was done when he lost twice to Frankie Edgar who for whatever reason just doesn't convince me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d0ublestr0ker0ll Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 (edited) Jeez, I didn't think that last round was a 10-8. To me, 10-8 means somebody got dropped, or received a lesson on the ground that involves more than a conveyor belt of finesse-strikes from the closed guard. Obviously, I can see the argument FOR a 10-8 round, so I'm not really looking for a retort. Fitch stayed on top of him the entire time, doing his aerobics exercise, not even looking to pass the guard one time, and never attempting one submission. What he did, however, is evolve the sport an inch more closer to watching golf. That kind of attack should not be awarded a 10-8 round unless he actually gets a shot in there that rattles the heck out of his opponent. All my opinion, of course. Edited February 27, 2011 by d0ublestr0ker0ll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Do Itch Big Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 I actually give big props to bj he was able to do what many others couldn't. He didn't lose. If he wants to retire than he can retire because he has nothing left to prove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 (edited) Jeez, I didn't think that last round was a 10-8. To me, 10-8 means somebody got dropped, or received a lesson on the ground that involves more than a conveyor belt of finesse-strikes from the closed guard. Obviously, I can see the argument FOR a 10-8 round, so I'm not really looking for a retort. Fitch stayed on top of him the entire time, doing his aerobics exercise, not even looking to pass the guard one time, and never attempting one submission. What he did, however, is evolve the sport an inch more closer to watching golf. That kind of attack should not be awarded a 10-8 round unless he actually gets a shot in there that rattles the heck out of his opponent. All my opinion, of course. Did you see Penn's face and his attitude post fight? Those shots did damage. Perhaps not knock out damage but they mess a fighter up bad and more importantly completely erode their will and confidence. I think you're getting carried away with labeling that beating "finesse-strikes". That wasn't "muscle shark" Sherk show of movement from the top. Also holding down a BJJ fighter as good as Penn for that long isn't easy, as Penn showed earlier in the fight when he easily stood up after finding himself in a bad spot. I don't think fight sports should go the route the NBA went and the NFL is going in which they sold out their sports defenses in order to generate excitement. It's about the disciplines and penalizing something as effective as the styles of Fitch and GSP because Siver's style might be more entertaining would be a horrible move. Edited February 27, 2011 by Destino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#98QBKiller Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 to be fair the koscheck fight should have been stopped if you see that Dana blog video Josh has nerve damage and can't even run because of his eye. I don't think the strikeforce commentators wanted the fight to end they just go along with the doctors orders. The commentators don't have to wish nerve damage on a fighter, but their job is to continue hyping the fight. If the doctors want to stop it, so be it., But it doesn't mean that Mauro has to start shouting that the fight should be stopped before the doctors have a chance to look at the fighter's injury. BTW, this is a better example than Koscheck: Speed difference. I think that's part of Fitch's new diet plan that has positioned him to cut less weight. GSP was just too fast for Fitch and because GSP is technically sound Fitch was unable to use his strength to counter. I think Fitch is changing his life to get faster and lighter on his feet in preparation for a GSP rematch. We all knew BJ was done when he lost twice to Frankie Edgar who for whatever reason just doesn't convince me. A diet change isn't going to improve him enough to overcome the kind of beating he took at the hands of St. Pierre in their first fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d0ublestr0ker0ll Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 (edited) Did you see Penn's face and his attitude post fight? Those shots did damage. Perhaps not knock out damage but they mess a fighter up bad and more importantly completely erode their will and confidence. I think you're getting carried away with labeling that beating "finesse-strikes". That wasn't "muscle shark" Sherk show of movement from the top. Also holding down a BJJ fighter as good as Penn for that long isn't easy, as Penn showed earlier in the fight when he easily stood up after finding himself in a bad spot. I don't think fight sports should go the route the NBA went and the NFL is going in which they sold out their sports defenses in order to generate excitement. It's about the disciplines and penalizing something as effective as the styles of Fitch and GSP because Siver's style might be more entertaining would be a horrible move. I'm not asking for a penalty, just think it was a 10-9 round. I've seen rounds with greater ground performances than that get 10-9s. Guard passing, submission attempts, G&P, pass it off as a solid 10-9 round. There is a line between the purist and pumped-up spectator in me, and it's more towards the purist side. I'm not asking to eliminate Fitch's style, just don't give him that extra credit for what he did. It's arguable, I understand that, I can see both sides of the equation. Edited February 27, 2011 by d0ublestr0ker0ll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebowski Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 (edited) Jeez, I didn't think that last round was a 10-8. To me, 10-8 means somebody got dropped, or received a lesson on the ground that involves more than a conveyor belt of finesse-strikes from the closed guard. Obviously, I can see the argument FOR a 10-8 round, so I'm not really looking for a retort. Fitch stayed on top of him the entire time, doing his aerobics exercise, not even looking to pass the guard one time, and never attempting one submission. What he did, however, is evolve the sport an inch more closer to watching golf. That kind of attack should not be awarded a 10-8 round unless he actually gets a shot in there that rattles the heck out of his opponent. All my opinion, of course. Great points and I agree completely. Fitch never did anything to finish the fight. BJ took risks to finish the fight and paid for them when they didn't succeed. Fitch was as conservative as ever and always will be. Did you see Penn's face and his attitude post fight? Those shots did damage. Perhaps not knock out damage but they mess a fighter up bad and more importantly completely erode their will and confidence. I think you're getting carried away with labeling that beating "finesse-strikes". That wasn't "muscle shark" Sherk show of movement from the top. Also holding down a BJJ fighter as good as Penn for that long isn't easy, as Penn showed earlier in the fight when he easily stood up after finding himself in a bad spot. I don't think fight sports should go the route the NBA went and the NFL is going in which they sold out their sports defenses in order to generate excitement. It's about the disciplines and penalizing something as effective as the styles of Fitch and GSP because Siver's style might be more entertaining would be a horrible move. First, it is a lot like Sherk Second, it is easy when there is a cage involved. Fitch and many others have become experts at using the cage to their advantage. Good for them, but reminds me why I like a ring so much better. Lastly, the problem is thinking of this as a sport instead of a fight. This is a fight! That is the principle behind MMA. They aren't "selling out the sport to generate excitement" by discouraging the Fitch game plan. They are selling out the fight for the sport by encouraging a Fitch style game plan! Anyway.... BJ impressed me tonight. First time I have ever seen him with a game plan. I really Hope the Nick Diaz was watching. If those two brought strategy to their games.... The other thing BJ proved is that he is a lightweight fighter. He is only 32 years old. He has a lot to offer teh world of MMA. He can run through the lightweight division if he comes to fight like he did tonight. Edgar was a bad matchup for him because he played right into Edgar's hands. If he took the fight to Edgar it could be a different story. Fitch looked much bigger than Penn tonight and Fitch was smaller than he has ever been! Edited February 27, 2011 by Sebowski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Yeah I would agree that even in defeat, Penn looked good at 170 for the first time in a long time, and also kind of exposed Fitch for what he is, and basically took another step in showing the world that as long as GSP it at 170 a fighter like Fitch really has no chance to ever be champion. I scored the fight a draw, because even though the first two rounds might have been close, I think Penn spend way more time being an effective fighter in those rounds. Penn had Fitch in trouble both rounds, and even though Fitch reversed position, he didn't do much with it. The third round, ended up going how I thought the entire fight was going to go, with Fitch, the bigger man, on top landing a large quantity of shots, but never a single blow that was considered a fight-ending shot. It really looked like Penn had little left to offer by round three, expending all his energy in the first two rounds grappling with the bigger man. Sometimes the commentators of fights annoy me. Their constant goal to have to make everything sound even. Just because Fitch reversed position on Penn, doesn't mean all of the sudden the round should be even, it also has a lot to do with what you do with your dominant position. Round 3, there was no dispute, Fitch laid the wood, but I would say in the first couple of rounds, Fitch merely reversing position, doesn't mean he made the rounds even, because he didn't do much with the top position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Reading post-fight posts from you guys gives me a little more perspective on last night's main event. That final round was just too reminiscent of Penn-GSP 2 and left me so disappointed that I was posting pure misery. BJ brought back the BJJ, which was what I was asking for. He even had a couple moments where he was rocking Fitch with shots. I just think the eternal knock on Penn is his conditioning. Once the third round came, he was simply too tired to escape the G and P like he had in the first two. I had it 29-28 for Fitch. The exact outcome I expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#98QBKiller Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Honestly, as unpopular as Jon Fitch is, the UFC probably wouldn't be hurt too much if they just cut him lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetoaster Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 I honestly did not have the third a 10-8 round, but I had Fitch winning the second. 29-28 Fitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 I honestly did not have the third a 10-8 round, but I had Fitch winning the second. 29-28 Fitch. Me too. In my "judge's mind," a fighter has to get at least 2 sweet knockdowns or at least two solid sub attempts to get a 10-8 round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick86L Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebowski Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) Bisping said he didn't spit on anyone. -1yz6yt-tTc Where is captain Hendo when you need him? Edited February 28, 2011 by Sebowski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#98QBKiller Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Bisping is such a douche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hdf561 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 All the props go to Bj for this fight....he came out aggressive and was trying to finish the fight, take downs, submission attampts, trying to throw big shots and flying knees. The only time Fitch had the upper hand is when Bj was going for the kill shot. I had Bj winning the first 2 rounds 10-9 and fitch winning the third 10-9....it was a dominant round but it was not a 10-8....no guard passing, and while the strikes may have been heavy they were not finishing strikes and at no point was Fitch trying to finish the fight. Either way this fight does not need to happen again....you give Bj a fight that he can get up for mentally, and you let Fitch fight the loser of GSP vs Shields for a title shot. Cant argue with his success so give him a shot at the belt one more time hopefully he loses and then he will be regulated to the under cards, and free cards quite honestly I do not want to see him fight anymore.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 All the props go to Bj for this fight....he came out aggressive and was trying to finish the fight, take downs, submission attampts, trying to throw big shots and flying knees. The only time Fitch had the upper hand is when Bj was going for the kill shot. He definitely looked a lot better than he did against Edgar. I was really down after the fight but have watched it again and I agree with you. BJ did pretty good. If his conditioning were better, he'd have won that fight on experience alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#98QBKiller Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Here are the fightmetric stats for the Penn/Fitch fight: http://blog.fightmetric.com/2011/02/fitch-vs-penn-official-ufc-statistics.html You can view the stats by round or you can view the total stats. After rewatching the fight yesterday and looking at the stats for round 3, I stand by my call that round 3 was 10-8 for Fitch. Granted, Fightmetric only shows stats for strikes but if you take into account Fitch's strikes landed vs. Penn's and the fact that Fitch scored a pair of takedowns and controlled the fight in top position all round, while BJ produced zero offense and very little defense, I think a 10-8 round is fair. I see the argument for a 10-9 round too however, but I don't think a round has to be as dominant as Lesnar/Carwin round 1 or Edgar/Maynard round 1 to be a 10-8 round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetoaster Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I think I might be one of the few people that actually enjoys watching Jon Fitch fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I think I might be one of the few people that actually enjoys watching Jon Fitch fight. That makes two of us. haha I like that style. Holding a guy down and beating him to a pulp isn't easy. Very few guys can do it successfully and one of them is GSP, who is at this point an MMA legend. There are a lot of strong wrestlers in MMA that can't pull it off or soft paw it doing no damage at all (Sherk for example, though perhaps it's because T Rex arms). ---------- Post added February-28th-2011 at 05:25 PM ---------- Here are the fightmetric stats for the Penn/Fitch fight:http://blog.fightmetric.com/2011/02/fitch-vs-penn-official-ufc-statistics.html You can view the stats by round or you can view the total stats. After rewatching the fight yesterday and looking at the stats for round 3, I stand by my call that round 3 was 10-8 for Fitch. Granted, Fightmetric only shows stats for strikes but if you take into account Fitch's strikes landed vs. Penn's and the fact that Fitch scored a pair of takedowns and controlled the fight in top position all round, while BJ produced zero offense and very little defense, I think a 10-8 round is fair. I see the argument for a 10-9 round too however, but I don't think a round has to be as dominant as Lesnar/Carwin round 1 or Edgar/Maynard round 1 to be a 10-8 round. A 10-8 round as I understand it has to be entirely one sided to even be considered. There can be no back and forth at all. Secondly it has to come close to ending the fight. If you watch round three you'll see BJ getting absolutely clocked with Fitch's hand behind his head. When that happened I was watching the ref because at any point in that beating he could have said "BJ you have to defend yourself" and the end would have been near. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I think I might be one of the few people that actually enjoys watching Jon Fitch fight. nah i like watching him fight as well particularly his last fight against Alves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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