Anything MMA, except thumb wrestling

[Hdf561]

I think attempting to finish the fight is something judges are giving credit for....It ptobbaly falls into the aggression catagory. I know if I am scoring a fight (here at home Im not pro) I gove a guy alot of credit for submission attmpts that put a guy in danger....

I would love to see the yellow card come back....best tool in fighitng, however it could even be simpler, Dana already gives money for great fights, he should take money for bad ones...if he did this then everyone would copy him. One thing though people have to define what a boring fight it....this sport should not be about haymakers and no strategy, I personally think guys trading submission attempts on the ground is exciting just as much as a slug fest, fans have to become more educated and stop booing once a fight hits the floor.

[StillUnknown]

One thing though people have to define what a boring fight it....this sport should not be about haymakers and no strategy, I personally think guys trading submission attempts on the ground is exciting just as much as a slug fest, fans have to become more educated and stop booing once a fight hits the floor.

quoted for emphasis. the crowds can sometime be a bit too quick to boo and I would hate to see a ref pull a yellow card just to please the crowd (kinda like how some refs will stand a fight up a little quicker if the crowd is booing)

[Hdf561]

I agree....the judges play to the crowd but thats no different from an NFL referee throwing a flag after a wide out claims pass interference....happens in just about every game.

I just agree that I would like to see some sort of passive penalty for guys who dont come to fight....and coming to fight does not mean standing toe to toe sluggin it out, it means coming out and trying to finish the fight either through strikes or submissions, you should never want to go to decision. If you cant finish after trying then fine, but your game plan should never be Im gonna try to go three rds and win a decision which I think alot of fighters are doing.

[#98QBKiller]

quoted for emphasis. the crowds can sometime be a bit too quick to boo and I would hate to see a ref pull a yellow card just to please the crowd (kinda like how some refs will stand a fight up a little quicker if the crowd is booing)

I totally agree with that quote as well. I mean, I love striking and knockouts as much as anyone but a good back-and-forth grappling match is just as exciting IMO. I get annoyed with the fans that boo as soon as the fight goes to the ground.

[Patrick86L]

hendo got the new logo strikeforce belt it looks really nice imo.

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

Yeah, that puppy is friggen' sweet.

[Destino]

I think attempting to finish the fight is something judges are giving credit for....It ptobbaly falls into the aggression catagory. I know if I am scoring a fight (here at home Im not pro) I gove a guy alot of credit for submission attmpts that put a guy in danger....

I would love to see the yellow card come back....best tool in fighitng, however it could even be simpler, Dana already gives money for great fights, he should take money for bad ones...if he did this then everyone would copy him. One thing though people have to define what a boring fight it....this sport should not be about haymakers and no strategy, I personally think guys trading submission attempts on the ground is exciting just as much as a slug fest, fans have to become more educated and stop booing once a fight hits the floor.

There isn't a move I would oppose more than what you've proposed here. I want fights to be real and reflect different styles. I want decisions in the ring to be made in the fighters own interest and force the other guy to counter/avoid/overcome it if he doesn't like it.

I do not want fights influenced or dictated by fan enjoyment at all. I absolutely LOVE mma and have followed it for a long long time. I would walk away completely from any league that tried to force "entertainment" into the ring. It's about combat sport and the martial arts behind them... not what makes people go woo woo. People may not like it but when one fighter can complete over power another and dominate position he shouldn't be forced to throw submissions when he doesn't need to. If you don't like it blame the guy on the bottom that had no answer and deserves nothing that could help him win as a result.

Some NFL games will be boring. Some fights will be boring too. I'd hate a rule that penalized running the ball and stopping the run because the passing game is so much more thrilling. I apply the same logic to combat sports. Some fights will be snoozers and I always blame the loser for not being able to stop the winner from holding him down for 15 minutes (not an easy accomplishment I might add).

Kind of like BJ Penn known for his incredibly dangerous ground game and active defense on the ground couldn't so much as move under Fitch. His fault not Fitch's for dominating him.

Edited March 7, 2011 by Destino

[NoCalMike]

Well we also need judges who understand the actual sport. Most judges seem to only understand MMA at it's very basic level "ok that guy connected with a punch, POINT' "Takedown, POINT"

The problem is, because you are dealing with such diverse forms of martial arts, it is hard to reward/punish fighters in such black & white ways.

[Hdf561]

There isn't a move I would oppose more than what you've proposed here. I want fights to be real and reflect different styles. I want decisions in the ring to be made in the fighters own interest and force the other guy to counter/avoid/overcome it if he doesn't like it.

I do not want fights influenced or dictated by fan enjoyment at all. I absolutely LOVE mma and have followed it for a long long time. I would walk away completely from any league that tried to force "entertainment" into the ring. It's about combat sport and the martial arts behind them... not what makes people go woo woo. People may not like it but when one fighter can complete over power another and dominate position he shouldn't be forced to throw submissions when he doesn't need to. If you don't like it blame the guy on the bottom that had no answer and deserves nothing that could help him win as a result.

Some NFL games will be boring. Some fights will be boring too. I'd hate a rule that penalized running the ball and stopping the run because the passing game is so much more thrilling. I apply the same logic to combat sports. Some fights will be snoozers and I always blame the loser for not being able to stop the winner from holding him down for 15 minutes (not an easy accomplishment I might add).

Kind of like BJ Penn known for his incredibly dangerous ground game and active defense on the ground couldn't so much as move under Fitch. His fault not Fitch's for dominating him.

While it is supposed to be martial arts, it is also supposed to be entertaining. Sure no matter what you do some fights will be boring but "boring" should be not part of the strategy. Fitch (just using him as an example) hasnt finished a fight in years, and he never even tries to finish them. Sure Bj couldnt move under him, but Fitch never mad any attempt to advance his position to side mount, mount, anything. In my opinion thats unacceptable.

I have also been following this sport for a long time, and entertainment value is just as important. If you have got a better idea that allows for the showcase of martial arts and entertaininig to the fans Im all ears.

[Patrick86L]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_B_Gl5kQ-I

[Destino]

Well we also need judges who understand the actual sport. Most judges seem to only understand MMA at it's very basic level "ok that guy connected with a punch, POINT' "Takedown, POINT"

The problem is, because you are dealing with such diverse forms of martial arts, it is hard to reward/punish fighters in such black & white ways.

I think the problem is with the 10 point must system.

1 - I don't think rounds should have to have a winner. If it's even it should be called even 10-10. Forcing judges to say x beat y when the round was back and forth and neither did any damage is absurd and leads to bad decisions.

2 - A take down that fails to hold the other fighter down for even a second and does no damage shouldn't be viewed as the point machine it currently is.

3 - There needs to be a priority system communicated to judges. Damage > takedowns = landed power punches (head/body) > power leg kicks > submission attempts that had a chance > smaller strikes (head/body/leg) > aggression (not suggesting that should be it, just through something out there as an example).

4 - 10-8 rounds need to be more clearly defined. Personally I think the easiest way to define it is one sided offense. I don't care if a fighter is ever hurt so long as he fails to attack or go on offense for in essence the entire round. One errant punch for example wouldn't save you from a 10-8 round. If you're pummeled or chased around the entire round and are basically just trying to avoid a stoppage and can't go on the attack... instant 10-8 even if you come out looking good.

5 - Aggression currently factors in too heavily. Counter punchers and defensive fighters are at a disadvantage in the current system. Machida and Rashard Evans are counter punchers that tend to fight backing up most of the fight. No one would argue these two fighters are bad or not dangerous just because they don't take the Korean Zombies approach to MMA.

Edited March 7, 2011 by Destino

[#98QBKiller]

If you have got a better idea that allows for the showcase of martial arts and entertaininig to the fans Im all ears.

10 minute first rounds, soccer kicks, yellow cards, an entrance ramp and fireworks. Basically, everything that made Pride awesome.

[Patrick86L]

Shinya Aoki's opponent for Strikeforce: Diaz vs. Daley is set. On April 9th, the Japanese star will be returning to Strikeforce against a guy who is also known for his "fancy pants", Lyle Beerbohm. MMA-Japan has it:

The Baka Survivor Shinya Aoki will be facing Lyle Beerbohm on the April 9th Strikeforce event. This comes from the man himself, Mr. Aoki... Contract signed, i's dotted, t's crossed.

Lyle "Fancy Pants" Beerbohm will have a quick turn around from his first career loss against Pat Healy last month, and faced against the #5 ranked lightweight, he has a good chance to rebound in a big way. Aoki on the other hand, took a massive flying knee from K-1 champ and cosplayer, Jienotsu on the last time we saw him compete. Now, he's heading for his second bout in US soil, and he plans to do better this time against a guy with equally colorful tights.

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/3/7/2034434/shinya-aoki-vs-lyle-beerbohm-set-for-strikeforce-on-april-9th

[Destino]

Sure Bj couldnt move under him, but Fitch never mad any attempt to advance his position to side mount, mount, anything. In my opinion thats unacceptable.

Why is this unacceptable? It's undeniable that he did damage, BJ's face and mood after the fight confirm that. The round went 10-8 because he held dominant position the entire round and never stopped landing shots that again, did in fact do damage. This is like arguing that movement and jabbing is unacceptable unless a fighter tries to land an uppercut. When they can't stop you there is no reason at all to try something else if what you're doing works. A faster fighter fighting a power puncher should never feel that he "has to" brawl in order not to be punished. He can float and stick a jab and win out a decision. People want to see fights finished and that's cool I get it... but the professional should be focused on winning more than anything else. If the opportunity to finish is there and worth the risk, take it... but suggesting that fighters should force an issue to avoid punishment when their opponent has no answers is wrong.

This isn't Ultimate Knockout Championship. What Fitch did to BJ Penn would be recognized as a bonofide ass whiping on every street corner in america. You get held down and pummeled for 5 minutes without a prayer of escape and people will say you took a beating like 5 year old fighting his big brother. I wonder if people stopped to think that maybe... just maybe... after seeing GSP do the same thing to BJ and seeing the effect it had on his spirit and the actions of his corner that perhaps that was the game plan? GSP held him down similarly and beat him and BJ you could see lost his confidence and quit long before his corner made it official. It nullifies his ground game and takes his head out of the fight.

Seems like sound strategy to me.

Edited March 7, 2011 by Destino

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

Why is this unacceptable? It's undeniable that he did damage, BJ's face and mood after the fight confirm that. The round went 10-8 because he held dominant position the entire round and never stopped landing shots that again, did in fact do damage. This is like arguing that movement and jabbing is unacceptable unless a fighter tries to land an uppercut. When they can't stop you there is no reason at all to try something else if what you're doing works. A faster fighter fighting a power puncher should never feel that he "has to" brawl in order not to be punished. He can float and stick a jab and win out a decision. People want to see fights finished and that's cool I get it... but the professional should be focused on winning more than anything else. If the opportunity to finish is there and worth the risk, take it... but suggesting that fighters should force an issue to avoid punishment when their opponent has no answers is wrong.

This isn't Ultimate Knockout Championship. What Fitch did to BJ Penn would be recognized as a bonofide ass whiping on every street corner in america. You get held down and pummeled for 5 minutes without a prayer of escape and people will say you took a beating like 5 year old fighting his big brother. I wonder if people stopped to think that maybe... just maybe... after seeing GSP do the same thing to BJ and seeing the effect it had on his spirit and the actions of his corner that perhaps that was the game plan? GSP held him down similarly and beat him and BJ you could see lost his confidence and quit long before his corner made it official. It nullifies his ground game and takes his head out of the fight.

Seems like sound strategy to me.

I understand where you're coming from and we've already gone over this with one another. However, I just don't know if I like the street corner argument. Seriously, tell me if I should. Most people watching a fight on a street corner couldn't tell you the first thing about jiu jitsu. I know I've seen fights broken up quickly because of what Fitch did. You're talking about people who are uneducated about fighting. As far as I'm concerned, even though I think the point is null, bonafide asswhippings in my neighborhood were much more violent than the third round of Fitch vs. BJ.

That fight would have been broken up.

As far as professional fighting goes, a fan should be educated enough to know what takes more skill in jiu jitsu. Sitting in someone's guard, with priority #1 being to not allow an escape, is not as impressive as guard passing, and attempting to finish. As a judge, I'm looking for that, I'm looking to be impressed - like any judge should. It's what judging is. It's a taste for the game that these jokers need to adopt.

By no means do I think Fitch and BJ should have been stood up. Staying active with strikes is a great way to keep the ref quiet and win a round, you have a point my friend. 10-8, though, is something I need to give out when I'm very impressed, relative to the other 10-8 rounds I've seen in the sport. Fitch's approach simply did not do enough for me to reward him an extra point.

Edited March 7, 2011 by d0ublestr0ker0ll

[#98QBKiller]

Lol:

[Hdf561]

Why is this unacceptable? It's undeniable that he did damage, BJ's face and mood after the fight confirm that. The round went 10-8 because he held dominant position the entire round and never stopped landing shots that again, did in fact do damage. This is like arguing that movement and jabbing is unacceptable unless a fighter tries to land an uppercut. When they can't stop you there is no reason at all to try something else if what you're doing works. A faster fighter fighting a power puncher should never feel that he "has to" brawl in order not to be punished. He can float and stick a jab and win out a decision. People want to see fights finished and that's cool I get it... but the professional should be focused on winning more than anything else. If the opportunity to finish is there and worth the risk, take it... but suggesting that fighters should force an issue to avoid punishment when their opponent has no answers is wrong.

This isn't Ultimate Knockout Championship. What Fitch did to BJ Penn would be recognized as a bonofide ass whiping on every street corner in america. You get held down and pummeled for 5 minutes without a prayer of escape and people will say you took a beating like 5 year old fighting his big brother. I wonder if people stopped to think that maybe... just maybe... after seeing GSP do the same thing to BJ and seeing the effect it had on his spirit and the actions of his corner that perhaps that was the game plan? GSP held him down similarly and beat him and BJ you could see lost his confidence and quit long before his corner made it official. It nullifies his ground game and takes his head out of the fight.

Seems like sound strategy to me.

Its not the Ultimate Hold You Down Championships either.....in a fight you should try to stop the other guy, by either KO or Submission, Fitch did neither....We have seen that a jab can end a fight, so can a leg kick but sitting in guard rarely leads to fight enders and mostly is a strategy of grinding out a decision. Sure decisions are neccessary cause guys like Diego, Bj, etc. are tough as nails and hard to finish, but again trying to go to decision should not be acceptable, fighters should try to end fights, period.

---------- Post added March-7th-2011 at 12:59 PM ----------

I understand where you're coming from and we've already gone over this with one another. However, I just don't know if I like the street corner argument. Seriously, tell me if I should. Most people watching a fight on a street corner couldn't tell you the first thing about jiu jitsu. I know I've seen fights broken up quickly because of what Fitch did. You're talking about people who are uneducated about fighting. As far as I'm concerned, even though I think the point is null, bonafide asswhippings in my neighborhood were much more violent than the third round of Fitch vs. BJ.

That fight would have been broken up.

As far as professional fighting goes, a fan should be educated enough to know what takes more skill in jiu jitsu. Sitting in someone's guard, with priority #1 being to not allow an escape, is not as impressive as guard passing, and attempting to finish. As a judge, I'm looking for that, I'm looking to be impressed - like any judge should. It's what judging is. It's a taste for the game that these jokers need to adopt.

By no means do I think Fitch and BJ should have been stood up. Staying active with strikes is a great way to keep the ref quiet and win a round, you have a point my friend. 10-8, though, is something I need to give out when I'm very impressed, relative to the other 10-8 rounds I've seen in the sport. Fitch's approach simply did not do enough for me to reward him an extra point.

Agree with this as well, look at every dominate Tito Ortiz fight, he mostly sat in guard and dropped elbows and punches, basically the same thing Fitch does, did Tito ever get a 10-8 rd...nope....and look on any youtube video of a street fight the minute it goes to the ground people are all over you trying to get it back to the feet.

---------- Post added March-7th-2011 at 01:00 PM ----------

10 minute first rounds, soccer kicks, yellow cards, an entrance ramp and fireworks. Basically, everything that made Pride awesome.

Im with you....even though I have seen some good UFC fights, PRIDE still in my opinion put on the greatest fights and shows (entertainment value) I do not think anyone will ever surpass them....Wanderlei Silva vs Rampage 2 was probably one of the best fights ever.

[Destino]

As far as professional fighting goes, a fan should be educated enough to know what takes more skill in jiu jitsu. Sitting in someone's guard, with priority #1 being to not allow an escape, is not as impressive as guard passing, and attempting to finish. As a judge, I'm looking for that, I'm looking to be impressed - like any judge should. It's what judging is. It's a taste for the game that these jokers need to adopt.

I disagree with your entire view on "what judging is". Fights are all about imposing will not impressing anyone. This isn't America's Best Dance Crew where the contestants are looking to raise eyebrows. They are going in to impose their will and it's up to the other guy to stop them. If that happens to be by superior striking, superior BJJ, or superior wrestling so be it. It's not about a wow moment it's about control, dominance, and result.

By no means do I think Fitch and BJ should have been stood up. Staying active with strikes is a great way to keep the ref quiet and win a round, you have a point my friend. 10-8, though, is something I need to give out when I'm very impressed, relative to the other 10-8 rounds I've seen in the sport. Fitch's approach simply did not do enough for me to reward him an extra point.

How would you define 10-8? The easiest definition for me is an entirely one sided round. In Round 3 BJ did exactly nothing but hold on and move around enough to avoid the fight being stopped (which it could have been I might add, failure to intelligently defend stops a fight just as surely as a knock out). It didn't happen mid round either, the bell ran BJ hit the canvas and proceeded to "survive" an entire round of ass whopping. That's 10-8 all day.

Fans shout 10-8 when one fighter almost gets knocked out a few times, but if the round saw real offense from both fighters IMO it's never a 10-8 round. 10-8 is all about dominance and not about highlights at all.

Sure decisions are neccessary cause guys like Diego, Bj, etc. are tough as nails and hard to finish, but again trying to go to decision should not be acceptable, fighters should try to end fights, period.[

Why? If you can out box someone why push your luck? If they have no answer for a strategy that is winning on the score cards why on earth would you switch it up and put yourself at risk. It makes absolutely no sense at all in the context of a sport. WWE creates fights that entertain, that's what they do. UFC is a sport, not a production, and the goal of opponents is to win. When putting together a strategy the only thing teams are thinking about is what can we do that gives us the best chance of leaving with a W. Not "i wonder if the fans would like X more than Y". If that means a decision than so be it... ultimately the other fighter has a say in the result as well.

Fitch's "hold them down" game went into the ring with GSP. How did that work for him? Was he able to just hold GSP down and get the decision? Of course not. GSP being the better fighter didn't allow it. In fact he controlled Fitch on the ground.

See how that works? If BJ didn't want to be held down and beaten like a little brother he shouldn't have allowed it. Plain and simple.

Edited March 7, 2011 by Destino

[Hdf561]

Its a moot point anyway....the judging is not going to change, and thankfully unless GSP goes up in weight Fitch is not going to win the belt, in fact he has put on such piss poor performances lately he will be lucky to even get a main card showing again.

Say whatever you like but entertainment is a part of this sport....it could be the best thing going but if no one watches it then it is nothing, alot of people do not want to see Fitch becuase he is boring, so the UFC being a business is not going to showcase him if its not in there best interests.

You like hold them down "strategists" who grind out decisions, I like guys that while using strategy try and finish the fight. I liked the old pride entrances, and yellow cards, you obviously dont. Simple as that.

[Destino]

Its a moot point anyway....the judging is not going to change, and thankfully unless GSP goes up in weight Fitch is not going to win the belt, in fact he has put on such piss poor performances lately he will be lucky to even get a main card showing again.

Say whatever you like but entertainment is a part of this sport....it could be the best thing going but if no one watches it then it is nothing, alot of people do not want to see Fitch becuase he is boring, so the UFC being a business is not going to showcase him if its not in there best interests.

You like hold them down "strategists" who grind out decisions, I like guys that while using strategy try and finish the fight. I liked the old pride entrances, and yellow cards, you obviously dont. Simple as that.

Look at the bright side, Bones Jones and Shogun Rua aren't going to be holding eachother down and we'll get to see Sexy-yama lose again.

[Chachie]

Its a moot point anyway....

Thank you!!

[StillUnknown]

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

I disagree with your entire view on "what judging is". Fights are all about imposing will not impressing anyone. This isn't America's Best Dance Crew where the contestants are looking to raise eyebrows. They are going in to impose their will and it's up to the other guy to stop them. If that happens to be by superior striking, superior BJJ, or superior wrestling so be it. It's not about a wow moment it's about control, dominance, and result.

How would you define 10-8? The easiest definition for me is an entirely one sided round. In Round 3 BJ did exactly nothing but hold on and move around enough to avoid the fight being stopped (which it could have been I might add, failure to intelligently defend stops a fight just as surely as a knock out). It didn't happen mid round either, the bell ran BJ hit the canvas and proceeded to "survive" an entire round of ass whopping. That's 10-8 all day.

Fans shout 10-8 when one fighter almost gets knocked out a few times, but if the round saw real offense from both fighters IMO it's never a 10-8 round. 10-8 is all about dominance and not about highlights at all.

Why? If you can out box someone why push your luck? If they have no answer for a strategy that is winning on the score cards why on earth would you switch it up and put yourself at risk. It makes absolutely no sense at all in the context of a sport. WWE creates fights that entertain, that's what they do. UFC is a sport, not a production, and the goal of opponents is to win. When putting together a strategy the only thing teams are thinking about is what can we do that gives us the best chance of leaving with a W. Not "i wonder if the fans would like X more than Y". If that means a decision than so be it... ultimately the other fighter has a say in the result as well.

Fitch's "hold them down" game went into the ring with GSP. How did that work for him? Was he able to just hold GSP down and get the decision? Of course not. GSP being the better fighter didn't allow it. In fact he controlled Fitch on the ground.

See how that works? If BJ didn't want to be held down and beaten like a little brother he shouldn't have allowed it. Plain and simple.

My full criteria for judging would have to be thought upon much more maticulously and written out in several pages. There are so many things that require interpretation right now, that I think the Athletic Commissions should start getting to work on several "drafts" of new judging systems. Throw them out there, let fighters take polls, let fans debate.

However, right now, generally, to score a 10-8, the round must be either dominant in a very technical or brutal fashion, or a close KO shot/close submission occurs while you're winning the round. Fitch didn't really meet any of that criteria for me. I know the ref told BJ to defend himself, but it still wasn't intense enough for me to take away another point when the value of each point is so high.

What Fitch did wasn't "imposing will" (your criteria for judging fights) as much as it was front-running. He got the upper hand, and then put 'er on cruise control. What I'm interpreting from your suggestion is that there isn't too much of a difference between lay & pray and a 10-8 round.

When it comes to judging jiu jitsu in a fight, it does become a matter of being impressed. It is one, if not the most, technical of the martial arts. I judge the jiu jitsu aspect of MMA based on being impressed with successful technical performance.

What Fitch displayed was not even close to being impressive jiu jitsu, and the entire round was spent on the floor. He won that round, 10-8 in your eyes, with the mindset of staying put, setting a marathon runner's pace. A single point is ridiculously important in the 10 point must system, especially in a three round fight. If what Fitch did is your criteria for docking BJ an extra 5 minutes of fighting, it's fine, but it's not my criteria, and that's inherently the problem.

There needs to be a comprehensive system put in place that limits interpretation. Something that explains for us how to interpret certain aspects of fighting, because right now it's simply too subjective. And rather than just installing something behind closed doors in haste, they should make suggestions public and try to gauge what the more well-versed fans think about the suggested systems.

Edited March 11, 2011 by d0ublestr0ker0ll

[Destino]

What Fitch did wasn't "imposing will" (your criteria for judging fights) as much as it was front-running. He got the upper hand, and then put 'er on cruise control. What I'm interpreting from your suggestion is that there isn't too much of a difference between lay & pray and a 10-8 round.

When it comes to judging jiu jitsu in a fight, it does become a matter of being impressed. It is one, if not the most, technical of the martial arts. It's the opposite of dancing; as you are working against your opponent rather than working with your partner. However, top flight jiu jitsu is just as technical as the most difficult dancing styles in the world. I judge the jiu jitsu aspect of MMA based on being impressed with successful technical performance.

What Fitch displayed was not even close to being impressive jiu jitsu, and the entire round was spent on the floor. He won that round, 10-8 in your eyes, with the mindset of staying put, setting a marathon runner's pace. A single point is ridiculously important in the 10 point must system, especially in a three round fight. If what Fitch did is your criteria for docking BJ an extra 5 minutes of fighting, it's fine, but it's not my criteria, and that's inherently the problem.

I can respect a difference of opinion on what is a 10-8 round. It needs to be defined. Badly and MMA judges appear to need some serious training because they are so erratic in what they seem to favor that it's impossible to predict at times.

There is a problem with your argument though in that the UFC is not jiu jitsu and BJ v Fitch wasn't a jiu jitsu match. Style points can not matter in MMA or we'd risk favoring certain styles. MMA is where styles go to be tested outside of their echo chambers and no style is favored in any way officially. A brawlers poor form and erratic punches can't be seen by judges as more or less worthy than a master Muay Thai fighters strikes. The only thing that matters are results and effectiveness.

I didn't even see BJJ from Fitch though I could be wrong. To me it looked a lot more like wrestling as he did nothing to advance position only shifted weight to stay on top and smother his opponent.

Also while "front running" may not appeal to some I'd argue that if it were easy more fighters would succeed with it. It's a skill all it's own to smother an opponent to the point where they simply quit fighting and resign themselves to taking a beating. Doing it to a legendary fighter known for his ground game like BJ Penn? Then again GSP did him the same way so maybe BJ just has a whole in his game he should have worked on.

Edited March 8, 2011 by Destino

[#98QBKiller]

Jon Jones vid