Heidenreich Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Really, how come soon as the nWo started helping Nitro pummell Raw in the ratings DX, the Nation, the disciples of apocolypse all popped up. I should have clarified I certainly didn't mean the hardcore thing I just meant the writers total approach to how to write storylines, cut promo's and go about setting up fueds began to mimmick what WCW was doing with the nWo. And to say not to give WCW any credit, well maybe not WCW but certainly Bishcoff. Some of the things he did pushed the envelope and he did things that hadn't been done before. Nitro was pummeling RAW in the Ratings well before DX, the Nation, & any other faction popped up. I'm probably not the one to argue this point, because I was never a fan of WCW. I tried to watch it, I really did, but it never did anything for me. I'll give you DX, they were a direct result of the NWO. The Anti-establishment fighting against the owner, etc.... WCW rode the NWO as far as they could, but they didn't have a backup plan. When the NWO fizzled, WCW was left with nothing. The only people WCW was built around from 1996 through 2000 was the NWO, Sting, Lex Luger, DDP, and Goldberg. The young guys never got a fair shake (Jericho, Benoit, Eddy Guerrero, etc) It was always the same 5 or 6 guys at the top. And the real reason WWF came back was because of the Montreal Screwjob, and Stone Cold Steve Austin. Austin became a superstar overnight, and once Vince kicked Bret to the curb, all of the fans hated him. You had a choice, turn on Nitro to watch the NWO beat up Jerry Flynn & Meng, or watch Raw & see what Stone Cold was going to do next. It was an easy choice........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canethang 305 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 All of the events we're discussing happenned in late '96 early '97, so I just try and connect the things WWE and ECW and even New Japan to what WWE did. And I'll readily admit I only watched RAW for the exact reasons you stated, to see Stone Cold and The Rock. I am very biased I grew up on Magnum TA, The Hourseman, etc and couldn't digest the gimmick heavy WWE so everything that happenned besides Stone Cold and The Rock ( who I feel developed their own gimmicks without help ) I just feel had to be ripped off from someplace because if they could have come up with it on their own why'd they give us the Gobbeldy Gooker and the rest of the crap they put out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Nitro was pummeling RAW in the Ratings well before DX, the Nation, & any other faction popped up. I'm probably not the one to argue this point, because I was never a fan of WCW. I tried to watch it, I really did, but it never did anything for me. I'll give you DX, they were a direct result of the NWO. The Anti-establishment fighting against the owner, etc.... WCW rode the NWO as far as they could, but they didn't have a backup plan. When the NWO fizzled, WCW was left with nothing. The only people WCW was built around from 1996 through 2000 was the NWO, Sting, Lex Luger, DDP, and Goldberg. The young guys never got a fair shake (Jericho, Benoit, Eddy Guerrero, etc) It was always the same 5 or 6 guys at the top. And the real reason WWF came back was because of the Montreal Screwjob, and Stone Cold Steve Austin. Austin became a superstar overnight, and once Vince kicked Bret to the curb, all of the fans hated him. You had a choice, turn on Nitro to watch the NWO beat up Jerry Flynn & Meng, or watch Raw & see what Stone Cold was going to do next. It was an easy choice........ I've seen the Bishcoff DVD, and they pretty much lay out the case to be that the NWO was the cause for both the rise and fall. People were so hyped up, but once it wore out, there was literally nothing for them to fall back on. WWF came back on because McMahon is a genius. There was no way they were going to let Hart leave to go to a rival and still be the champion. McMahon sucked it up, and went with the unpopular, yet smart, descision, and WWF saved face. It launched McMahon to a new level of hate, which he immediately capitalized on. Nothing sells better than sharp contrast. Stone Cold's character epitomized the majority of the fan base. he was somebody most fans could relate to. His attitude, and his clashes with Vince launched him. Add to that a stellar performer in the Rock for Stone Cold to feud with, and it's no wonder Vince has outlasted everyone else. Now, Donald Trump has not, I repeat HAS NOT announced who will represent him at Wrestlemania. Trump will announce next Monday on RAW. http://www.wwe.com/shows/raw/results/3664030/ It has been rumored it will be a very big star. The specualtion right now is that it will be Stone Cold Steve Austin. This is because the advertising clips for Wrestlemania have Stone Cold in them. Although it could be Hogan since he's got like a 20 year deal with WWE now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted February 22, 2007 Author Share Posted February 22, 2007 And to say not to give WCW any credit, well maybe not WCW but certainly Bishcoff. Some of the things he did pushed the envelope and he did things that hadn't been done before. At least not done in American TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergasun Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Can someone tell me what the deal is with the "Great Kahli"? I'm a causal fan who watch wrestling when nothing else is on TV and I'm on the road.... why would the WWF push someone who no sells all the time and obviously can't take a hit? This is one of the worst gimmicks ever... "Look at this monster heel... he doesn't take a hit and he's a 7'3 guy who doesn't look like a long beanpole... wow he really can life weights, but it doesn't look like he can sell... push push push". Anyway, I'm just pissed at this gimmick... from what I've seen recently it's only worth watching like the final match of any of the 3 shows on TV... although to be fair I've never seen ECW on Sci-Fi... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsOrlando Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 although to be fair I've never seen ECW on Sci-Fi... Your lucky, it's terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Can someone tell me what the deal is with the "Great Kahli"? I'm a causal fan who watch wrestling when nothing else is on TV and I'm on the road.... why would the WWF push someone who no sells all the time and obviously can't take a hit? This is one of the worst gimmicks ever... "Look at this monster heel... he doesn't take a hit and he's a 7'3 guy who doesn't look like a long beanpole... wow he really can life weights, but it doesn't look like he can sell... push push push". Anyway, I'm just pissed at this gimmick... from what I've seen recently it's only worth watching like the final match of any of the 3 shows on TV... although to be fair I've never seen ECW on Sci-Fi... Khali is a gimmick. The WWE loves it's giants though. Dude won't be around long. ECW has gone to the crapper. It started off tight, but they don't have enough of the old original ECW guys, and they focused way too much on raising its' popularity by bringing in RAW and Smackdown guys as guests. They haven't done enough promoting from within. They had their own McMahon in Paul Hayden/Haymen (?) and he did his job as antagonist well. The Big Show was doing good also. They since have steered away from those two, RVD is going to leave. Lashley was a good idea, the guy is a beast, but it may be too little too late. They also haven't had any good storylines developing lately. TNA isn't half bad, I'd say it's better than ECW is, right now anyway. Samoa Joe is a beast. He is real good. The feud between him and Angle was nice. Generally with the shows, RAW is the best bet, IMO. Smackdown has a bit of a kiddie feel to it. All the shows have a decent match at first, then crappy filler, then the last couple matches are good. They can't all be great, and it seems like a good set-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted February 22, 2007 Author Share Posted February 22, 2007 Paul Heyman is ECW. ECW without Paul Heyman is Tuesday Night Heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 I think Austin has serious neck and back issues. If Vince picked a lighter guy, then maybe. But I think the Rock would be perfect for this. For all we know, its in a contract he has still. He will appear at WM if asked. Trump is all about loot, the Rock had that angle with his $600 shirts. Etc, Etc. I think it would be genius. Plus, have the Rock win and leave, its not like Umaga feuds, he's just a big hired gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan1992 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 another thing wrong with ECWWWE is without extreme matches in EVERYMATCH its not worth watching also you need to get it too 2 hours so you can develop decent story lines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Clark Fan Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 I've seen the Bishcoff DVD, and they pretty much lay out the case to be that the NWO was the cause for both the rise and fall. People were so hyped up, but once it wore out, there was literally nothing for them to fall back on.WWF came back on because McMahon is a genius. There was no way they were going to let Hart leave to go to a rival and still be the champion. McMahon sucked it up, and went with the unpopular, yet smart, descision, and WWF saved face. It launched McMahon to a new level of hate, which he immediately capitalized on. Nothing sells better than sharp contrast. Stone Cold's character epitomized the majority of the fan base. he was somebody most fans could relate to. His attitude, and his clashes with Vince launched him. Add to that a stellar performer in the Rock for Stone Cold to feud with, and it's no wonder Vince has outlasted everyone else. Now, Donald Trump has not, I repeat HAS NOT announced who will represent him at Wrestlemania. Trump will announce next Monday on RAW. http://www.wwe.com/shows/raw/results/3664030/ It has been rumored it will be a very big star. The specualtion right now is that it will be Stone Cold Steve Austin. This is because the advertising clips for Wrestlemania have Stone Cold in them. Although it could be Hogan since he's got like a 20 year deal with WWE now. Sorry to burst your bubble, but as i stated earlier SCSA is the ref and lashley is trump's pick...........sorry for breaking kayfabe, but its old news......the wwe.com is not the best source for accurate news Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 ugh, how lame. Austin as the Ref? Ok, so we know he's going to try to screw Vince's guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaded-Dragon Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Vince McMahon is a friggin moron. You would think he learned his lesson during the attitude era, that lesson being that realism sells. But here we are in 2007 and we are forced to deal with these lame 80's cartoon gimmicks. Raw is damn near unbearable for me to watch anymore. 20 minute promo to start, some pointless match in a pointless feud that is not going to do anything to elevate either person, back stage promo, tag match, 20 minute promo to kick off the second hour, back stage promo, another pointless match, backstage promo, something with the divas, backstage promo, main event. I think they forgot about the midcard. Even when Austin vs McMahon was going on you had guys like HHH, The Rock, Foley, and others to fill the gap. To make the rest of the show interesting. Now I get to watch an extremely talented guy named Shelton Benjamin get the shaft by jobbing out to Cryme Tyme, an undeserving Chris Masters making someone pass out, etc etc. The IC title means next to nothing now-a-days because the belt takes second priority to issues in a feud. It's not like Bret Hart vs Hennig where it was about who's really the best, who really deserves to hold the championship because they are better. Now it's "You stole my girlfriend so I'm going to come after you, you just happen to be wearing the IC belt, which I don't care about, I just want my revenge." Nobody conveys a "desire" to be champion, which I really feel hurts the product just as much as having no midcard to speak of and the 80's gimmicks. I could go on, and on, but I won't. I'll just go watch ROH where the quality of wrestling takes top priority and the belts actually mean something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Sorry to burst your bubble, but as i stated earlier SCSA is the ref and lashley is trump's pick...........sorry for breaking kayfabe, but its old news......the wwe.com is not the best source for accurate news Where's the link/source for this? I watched RAW back on Monday, and Trump didn't say who he had selected, which is why a potsed a link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Vince McMahon is a friggin moron. You would think he learned his lesson during the attitude era, that lesson being that realism sells. But here we are in 2007 and we are forced to deal with these lame 80's cartoon gimmicks. Raw is damn near unbearable for me to watch anymore. 20 minute promo to start, some pointless match in a pointless feud that is not going to do anything to elevate either person, back stage promo, tag match, 20 minute promo to kick off the second hour, back stage promo, another pointless match, backstage promo, something with the divas, backstage promo, main event. I think they forgot about the midcard. Even when Austin vs McMahon was going on you had guys like HHH, The Rock, Foley, and others to fill the gap. To make the rest of the show interesting. Now I get to watch an extremely talented guy named Shelton Benjamin get the shaft by jobbing out to Cryme Tyme, an undeserving Chris Masters making someone pass out, etc etc. The IC title means next to nothing now-a-days because the belt takes second priority to issues in a feud. It's not like Bret Hart vs Hennig where it was about who's really the best, who really deserves to hold the championship because they are better. Now it's "You stole my girlfriend so I'm going to come after you, you just happen to be wearing the IC belt, which I don't care about, I just want my revenge." Nobody conveys a "desire" to be champion, which I really feel hurts the product just as much as having no midcard to speak of and the 80's gimmicks. I could go on, and on, but I won't. I'll just go watch ROH where the quality of wrestling takes top priority and the belts actually mean something. You make some very good points. I still think RAW is enjoyable, but the WWE isn't as good as it used to be. My reasoning is that the main champ, Cena, is the start of it. Cena is talented, but his character is very gimmicky, his finishing move, you-can't-see-me is lame. When WWE is very good and very popular, there always is a stud as the main champ. It's too bad HHH is injured, cuz he could definitley be that guy. I wish they'd let HBK beat Cena at wrestlemania, but I really don't think it's going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan1992 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Where's the link/source for this? I watched RAW back on Monday, and Trump didn't say who he had selected, which is why a potsed a link. I did read on 1wrestling.com and a couple other sites that as of right now that is the plan for the Billionare match at WM23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Clark Fan Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Where's the link/source for this? I watched RAW back on Monday, and Trump didn't say who he had selected, which is why a potsed a link. its been posted on a bunch of websites.........believe me i hope this isnt the case but as of right now another reason not to order WM BTW, anyone ever been to wrestlecrap.com........if no highly recommend it.....great wrestling site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan1992 Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 thats why I dont order WWE PPVS anmore I just got to a Blast area that way I can eat and enjoy the company if the PPV Bombs....... but WrestleMania normally is the best PPV of the year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canethang 305 Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 My reasoning is that the main champ, Cena, is the start of it. Cena is talented, but his character is very gimmicky, his finishing move, you-can't-see-me is lame. Cena Talented? Hard worker yes, good "company" guy yes, has the capability to be talented if someone would work with him on some of his moves. Cena has come A LONG WAY since thay put the belt on him. He's improved selling the moves and his in ring storytelling but he's got a way's to go. Right now he's basically Hulk Hogan all over again, a gimmick but that's what Vince loves. Cena's very similar to Hogan and The Rock, same type of finisher/ set up moves essentially. Like The Rock the fan's hated him and he eventually got over because the writers and Vince's persistance. Albeit The Rock got over with his charisma, wit, and promo cutting and Cena got over by putting his body on the line and doing some seriously risky spots to gain respect these guy's are the same type of characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted February 24, 2007 Author Share Posted February 24, 2007 Cena's turning point was the title match against RVD at the second ECW One Night Stand PPV. You talk about a crowd that literally wanted to kill someone. Sheesh. The crowd was prepared to riot & would have destroyed that room had Cena won. Cena gained some reluctant acceptance after that match. Now that he's been using the Marine gimmick, instead of the great white rapper gimmick, how long until they get rid of that stupid spinner belt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canethang 305 Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Now that he's been using the Marine gimmick, instead of the great white rapper gimmick, how long until they get rid of that stupid spinner belt? As long as whatever new belt they create doesn't have camo inspired leather (ala the Ultimat Warriors old belts with yellow and blue ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan1992 Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 I was sitting here watching some of my Wrestlemania tapes and wondering who they could put in the HOF here are the people I like to see get in Dino Bravo Randy Savage Ricky Steamboat Jim Ross Jim Duggan I know that JR is still active but this man has seen it all I guess you could make an argument for Ric Flair too but I would love to see Jim Ross get his due Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 its been posted on a bunch of websites.........believe me i hope this isnt the case but as of right now another reason not to order WMBTW, anyone ever been to wrestlecrap.com........if no highly recommend it.....great wrestling site It is Lashley vs Umaga, and McMahon just said there will be a guest ref, obviously it will be Stone Cold as you said. That's lame. Anybody w/ a friggin clue knows Austin is gonna fahk over Vince. Lashley and Umaga are not going to fill seats at WM. The money in the bank match is going to steal the show again. I at least hope they go opposite of what I think will happen and let HBK beat Cena, doubt it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rypien 91 Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Who is the new Hall of Famer? I missed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVAbrendan Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Who is the new Hall of Famer? I missed it. Jerry "the king" Lawler I'm liking this Kane/Kahli thing going on, I'm not a fan of squash matches. I think Lashley/Umaga will turn out decent if the angle plays out alright. The huge fight tonight seemed to get a huge pop from the crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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