The Figure Four - ALL Things ECW-WWF-NJPW-TNA-ROH-AEW

[CrypticVillain]

I don't buy the idea that wrestlers elevate titles. Titles are supposed to elevate wrestlers. And you do that by treating them seriously.

They have way too many titles. Cut them down to a manageable number and make the wrestlers seem somewhat interested in winning them. That's all it would take. It's the easiest thing to do.

Remember when Shawn Michales was chasing his "childhood dream" of winning the title? It's the simplest thing to book in the world. Have Wrestler A stand in the ring and say' date=' "I want to be world champion because that will prove that I am the best in the world." And then have him walk out of the ring.[/quote']

I like this idea better.

What do you all think about this...

http://www.prowrestling.net/artman/publish/WWE/article10027973.shtml

Former WWE Superstar Chris Jericho says WWE should put the title on Ryback at Hell in a Cell, thinks CM Punk's character has gone as far as it can, gives predication for Hell in a Cell

-Jericho on why he thinks Ryback should win on Sunday: "I don’t know anything and I don’t work for the WWE. I haven’t talked to Vince in about a month. But I personally think and this is something that obviously Busted Open Radio has very hardcore wrestling fans who are listening as we all are. The number one thing people ***** about is that there is nothing new and it’s the same old same old with John Cena. This is the chance to create a new guy. This is the chance to make a new star instantly, and I know tradition says you must build a star. There is no tradition in a case like this.

"The comparisons are to Goldberg. Most of the fans in this day and age have no idea who Goldberg is and don’t care. We do, but in the year 2012 Goldberg was over ten years ago. How did Goldberg get over? …. By beating everybody. There was no loss for Goldberg. As soon as he did lose, that’s when things started going downhill for him. Ryback is not a normal guy. This is not a guy that we see that builds his way to the top and fans get behind him slowly but surely. You want to pick a new guy? Have him beat CM Punk this week. Who gives a **** about Punk’s title reign? It means nothing. Here is a chance to take a guy who people are getting behind. If he beats Punk at Hell in A Cell and after three hundred and thirty seven days or whatever and Punk is finally beaten, people are going to start to take notice of this guy.

"Those who don’t watch Raw are going to tune in to see what’s going on. Ryback beats everybody. Ryback faces Rock at Royal Rumble. What happens if a couple of weeks before that something goes on with Ryback and Undertaker got involved in the Rock match? What if Rock wins the title and goes on to face Cena we expected and what if its Ryback vs Undertaker at WrestleMania? What if Ryback beats Undertaker at WrestleMania? You have a new star for the next ten years to headline pay-per views and main events."

Jericho on if CM Punk has gone as far as he can go as a character: "He has gone as far as he can go. The Rock is the Rock. He comes from a different era. Undertaker, Steve Austin, that comes from a different era. Nobody will ever be a bigger star than those guys, because people in their heads. It’s like the old Batman TV show when we were kids. We thought it was the greatest show ever. You watch it back now and it sucks. But it has a certain place in your head that it will never be replaced. The band KISS in 1978 if you’re old enough to remember was thought of as the greatest band ever, even if they weren’t. Rock is a guy unto his own. Punk is as big of a star as he can be as a heel in WWE. Beating Ryback doesn’t make him a bigger star. It doesn’t."

Jericho on if the injury to John Cena can be a blessing in disguise: "It is a blessing in disguise. The biggest breaks I ever got in this business were when someone got hurt, or when someone went to make a movie. I won the undisputed championship because Triple H was hurt and Rock was leaving. Cena got hurt. What do we do? One thing about Vince McMahon is his motto is to take a negative and turn it into a positive. Vince knows how rare it is for someone to get over so quickly. Vince knows Ryback is not a money making star right now. But if he goes into Hell in a Cell and he destroys Punk and beats him, a hundred percent those fans are going to go bananas for Ryback.

"You have created a new star. Punk can come back the next night and ***** and complain and do what a heel does. Heels aren’t built to win. Heels are built to lose. That’s what heels do. The fact that Punk has held the title for three hundred and thirty seven days, it might mean something to you guys. I can tell you Punk doesn’t care. Punk wants to make money and if that means Punk and Ryback becomes the hottest feud and suddenly something happens where it goes to Ryback and Rock, that’s a match where suddenly you made a new guy. I would love to see Punk and Rock and I’m sure Punk would be disappointed if it didn’t work out. But this is business. If you have a chance to build someone that can put a company on his back, then you do it. The stop and start pushes that the WWE has been doing and infamous for the last ten years has got to stop and this is the perfect time for it."

Jericho on if he thinks the WWE will pull the trigger and have Ryback become champion: "I do because of the reasons I’ve talked about. I’m not saying I know anything. I could be completely wrong. Maybe there would be a scenario where they can protect Ryback and still have Punk as champ. But for me what I like as a wrestling fan, when I was a kid, what I like as wrestling fan now even after doing it for 22 years is the element of surprise. I hate the same old same old.

"I worked in WCW for three years when guys were passed over. As hard as it is to believe at this point, Eddie Guerrero was the top heel in the company at certain points, but they never let him beat anybody. Billy Kidman was super popular. Probably one of the top two or three babyfaces in the company at certain points, but they never pushed him over the edge. There are guys for whatever reason, get over, even when they are not supposed to get over. If you take advantage of that and push it over the cliff, people will get behind it especially a guy like Ryback because we haven’t seen anyone like that in a long time. We haven’t seen a powerhouse come in and annihilate people. The last time might have been Batista but Ryback is more Neanderthal, more animalistic, more a beast. Batista is very well spoken.

"Ryback does remind me of Goldberg and like I said it’s not a copy of Goldberg. It’s like saying Jericho is a copy of Shawn Michaels. There are elements and lots of similarities but it’s a different guy and nobody has seen a guy like this in a long, long time. So I think if they do pull the trigger that it will work huge and it will create a superstar instantly. Someone that will be a money drawer, someone that people will tune in who are not watching now to see."

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I'm not opposed to putting the title on Ryback, but it needs to mean something. He can't win it and then drop it to Cena in a month. In fact, you need to keep Cena away from him, because Cena just annihilates the heat of anyone he is paired with by making everything a joke. I can't even begin to understand the psychology of the Cena-Punk issue right now. Punk has beaten Cena over and over again. Cena is hurt. Punk is defending the title against a monster. And somehow, Punk is ducking him?

If Ryback wins it, he needs to beat Punk again in a rematch. Punk then needs to go off into a corner somewhere with Cena and work out that stupid issue while Ryback has a good run with the belt - which means beating people.

There are people Ryback can squash. I would have his first defense be against Tensai and have Tensai do a stretcher job after which he is never seen again. They need to get Tensai off tv and off the roster. So, turf him and make Ryback a killer in the process.

I'm sure there is someone else who needs a vacation or surgery or something. You can even do a mini-angle where you turn Ryback into the Max Baer characther in Cinderella Man. Sure, you can have a title shot, but you might die.....

Edited October 23, 2012 by Lombardi's_kid_brother

[spjunkies]

I seriously just don't get this whole Ryback thing, sure he's a huge dude, but nothing about his look screams intimidating from his silly looking face to his silly outfit.

Someone like Mason Ryan would've been much more convincing with this gimmick IMO.

Edited October 24, 2012 by spjunkies

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I seriously just don't get this whole Ryback thing, sure he's a huge dude, but nothing about his looks screams intimidating from his silly looking face to his silly outfit.

I don't know if he is the right choice, but he is a choice.

[CrypticVillain]

If you want to blame one person for this Ryback push, it is.....

Last month, I read an article where a former writer says that he (Vinny Mc) loves Ryback. Next thing you know he is in the main event in a PPV. What makes it even funnier is that Vince was on TV to push him. It's all good though, they are letting people like Ambrose, Ziggler, Kofi, Naomi, etc. take the back seat to these talents that aren't that good.

Did y'all see that Bryan/Ziggler match last night. It was so good. Would love to see a longer feud with them two.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Ryback is reminds of a generic 90s WCW mid carder more than Goldberg. Granted I haven't watched much wrestling recently

They ****** up with Ziggler and Cody Rhodes and this stupid Kane/Bryan thing needs to stop for the love of God.

[Forehead]

LKB, Chris Jericho is actually a legit badass from what I've heard. Remember he was a Hart dungeon trained guy. He got into a backstage fight with Goldberg at one point and apparently kicked the snot out of him. Now Goldberg might not have been a trained fighter, but he was a lot bigger and a former pro-football player, so he couldn't have been a slouch.

On another note, I almost hate to admit this but some friends and I are thinking about going to Wrestlemania in East Rutherford. Where's a good place to stay besides NYC? Good meaning safe and reasonable hotel rates, and convenient to the old Meadowlands. I was looking at Secaucus; is there someplace better?

[Mr. Sinister]

LKB, Chris Jericho is actually a legit badass from what I've heard. Remember he was a Hart dungeon trained guy. He got into a backstage fight with Goldberg at one point and apparently kicked the snot out of him. Now Goldberg might not have been a trained fighter, but he was a lot bigger and a former pro-football player, so he couldn't have been a slouch.

Yup. Goldberg apparently tried to punk Y2J and got embarrased. I think Goldberg ended up being put in a chokehold. It's always funny hearing about wrestlers who have that insane tough guy gimmick getting their asses whooped backstage. I also remember there being a story about Hulk Hogan and Dynamite Kid, where Hogan ran and locked himself in his hotel bedroom, to avoid facing him in a confrontaton. I'm pretty sure that according to most people, Dynamite Kid was insane anyway, but it's still funny.

[KDawg]

I know some aren't high on the tag team stuff lately, but I think they're doing a good job in at least getting the division back to something respectable.

That said, they could do a lot better.

First: dump the "Team" in the tag team names. "Team" Rhodes Scholars. "Team" Hell No. It's stupid. We know it's a team.

Second: Theme songs. Each tag team needs their own theme song. Rhodes Scholars shouldn't be using Cody Rhodes theme, they should get a unique one.

Third: Similar attire. What did Demolition wear to the ring? LoD? Nasty Boys? Bush Whackers? Rockers? Oreint Express? Power and Glory? DX? Nation of Domination? APA? Hart Foundation? The British Bulldogs? Dudleys? Even a TNA Team, Beer Money... They all had team attire.

Fourth: Start debuting more people as a tag team. There are a TON of singles wrestlers right now, plenty of which no one cares about. Plenty of which could be higher on the card but the singles divison is saturated. Create more tag teams prior to their debut. Have people debut together and if they show promise have them break apart later... But keep them together for awhile.

Edited October 25, 2012 by KDawg

[RVAbrendan]

I know some aren't high on the tag team stuff lately, but I think they're doing a good job in at least getting the division back to something respectable.

That said, they could do a lot better.

First: dump the "Team" in the tag team names. "Team" Rhodes Scholars. "Team" Hell No. It's stupid. We know it's a team.

Second: Theme songs. Each tag team needs their own theme song. Rhodes Scholars shouldn't be using Cody Rhodes theme, they should get a unique one.

Third: Similar attire. What did Demolition wear to the ring? LoD? Nasty Boys? Bush Whackers? Rockers? Oreint Express? Power and Glory? DX? Nation of Domination? APA? Hart Foundation? The British Bulldogs? Dudleys? Even a TNA Team, Beer Money... They all had team attire.

Fourth: Start debuting more people as a tag team. There are a TON of singles wrestlers right now, plenty of which no one cares about. Plenty of which could be higher on the card but the singles divison is saturated. Create more tag teams prior to their debut. Have people debut together and if they show promise have them break apart later... But keep them together for awhile.

Did I just see a Power & Glory reference? Nice!

Anyway, KDawg, here's an opening for WWE Creative. I suggest you apply...you seem to have a better idea of how to run the business than they do! http://www.wwe-careers.com/wwe/jobboard/JobDetails.aspx?__ID=*AC5F80BAD409E322

[Mr. Sinister]

I'm in favor of similar attire as long as the wrestlers have joint tag team moves, and have great all around chemistry, otherwise it will look embarrassing. I think there needs to be a healthy mix of synchronized face tag teams, heel tag teams, and odd ball tag teams.

I'm sure that you could point to a slew of reasons why the tag team division fizzled out, but I think some of it has to with the fact that they seemed to want to hit homeruns with the odd ball variety, and the "Same attire" kind of teams were really boring, at least that's what it seemed like when I stopped watching as a die hard fan in '04. I also think that a lot of wrestlers seem to want to hit the big time in singles competition, and viewed that division as petty, and it seems like tag teams aren't package deals anymore, like two guys going to the same company together. Instead it seems like WWE picks and chooses who they want to pair, and the teams suck because they have no chemistry.

[KDawg]

I'm in favor of similar attire as long as the wrestlers have joint tag team moves, and have great all around chemistry, otherwise it will look embarrassing. I think there needs to be a healthy mix of synchronized face tag teams, heel tag teams, and odd ball tag teams.

I think that kind of goes without saying. But, you're right.

Hart Foundation - Hart Attack

LoD - Doomsday Device

Dudleys - 3D

I could keep going. But, they had tag team moves. They were all originally developed as tag teams. Which is a key piece.

and the "Same attire" kind of teams were really boring

Well, you can't just slap a team together and put them in similar attire and call it a team. Like you mentioned, they need to have moves. They need to have a theme. They need to have chemistry. They need to have a reason. I don't want to see two singles guys paired together. I want to see there being a rhyme and reason to team formation. I want to see teams debut together (Prime Time Players).

Instead it seems like WWE picks and chooses who they want to pair, and the teams suck because they have no chemistry.

Yup. Which is why the WWE needs to reach out to more teams. Or DEVELOP more teams.

Bret Hart was originally in a tag team.

Shawn Michaels was originally in a tag team.

Nothing wrong with starting there, especially if you can get more exposure there then you would as a singles competitor.

[Mr. Sinister]

Yeah I was going to add that on as well. It's a lot easier to be in a tag team, or a stable, and then branch out. You have notoriety, you have a following, and it also allows you to either further build a rep by beefing with guys in your previous group, or beef with other guys that have branched out, that were part of a rival group, then add your own personal twist to your character and go from there. It's a very good formula. HBK is the prime example.

Edited October 25, 2012 by Mr. Sinister

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

LKB, Chris Jericho is actually a legit badass from what I've heard. Remember he was a Hart dungeon trained guy. He got into a backstage fight with Goldberg at one point and apparently kicked the snot out of him. Now Goldberg might not have been a trained fighter, but he was a lot bigger and a former pro-football player, so he couldn't have been a slouch.

On another note, I almost hate to admit this but some friends and I are thinking about going to Wrestlemania in East Rutherford. Where's a good place to stay besides NYC? Good meaning safe and reasonable hotel rates, and convenient to the old Meadowlands. I was looking at Secaucus; is there someplace better?

I stayed in a hotel in a business park in Seacucus once. It was fine.

---------- Post added October-25th-2012 at 09:41 AM ----------

Yeah I was going to add that on as well. It's a lot easier to be in a tag team, or a stable, and then branch out. You have notoriety, you have a following, and it also allows you to either further build a rep by beefing with guys in your previous group, or beef with other guys that have branched out, that were part of a rival group, then add your own personal twist to your character and go from there. It's a very good formula. HBK is the prime example.

This is all Wrestling 101 stuff. You have two singles wrestlers going nowhere - one can talk and one can wrestle a bit. Make them a team. If neither can talk, give them a manager. If they get over as a tag team, at the absolute worst, you can pencil in hot opening matches on PPV for the next year. Once they get stale, you do a breakup angle. If the angle goes well, you create a new singles star out of somebody who was doing nothing a year or two earlier.

I think Russo killed tag team wrestling because the only concept he had for it was "enemies forced to be a tag team." And then McMahon just got bored with it for a while.

I don't watch as much as I used to, but here is a lost art: using the tag rope.

[Heidenreich]

LKB, Chris Jericho is actually a legit badass from what I've heard. Remember he was a Hart dungeon trained guy. He got into a backstage fight with Goldberg at one point and apparently kicked the snot out of him. Now Goldberg might not have been a trained fighter, but he was a lot bigger and a former pro-football player, so he couldn't have been a slouch.

On another note, I almost hate to admit this but some friends and I are thinking about going to Wrestlemania in East Rutherford. Where's a good place to stay besides NYC? Good meaning safe and reasonable hotel rates, and convenient to the old Meadowlands. I was looking at Secaucus; is there someplace better?

I live ten minutes from there. You should be fine in Secaucus. There are tons of towns and hotels within 10 minutes of the stadium. If you have any questions about an area, etc, PM me. I'll help you out.

[DM72]

On another note, I almost hate to admit this but some friends and I are thinking about going to Wrestlemania in East Rutherford. Where's a good place to stay besides NYC? Good meaning safe and reasonable hotel rates, and convenient to the old Meadowlands. I was looking at Secaucus; is there someplace better?

Yeah, me, my son and two nephews are going to WrestleMania also. Still undecided if I want to go to the Hall of Fame ceremony though.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Yeah I don't watch anymore but I still may make that trip for WM.

[Mr. Sinister]

I haven't watched more then a few minutes per week since two Raw's after the reunion. I just grew tired of forcing myself to like it. Not even The Rock coming back would interest me all that much. And in all honesty, I'd like it better if he just left for good.

I'm not going to do the ridiculous and campaign for him to come back full time, or anywhere close to that, but it is a little odd to cut a 5-10 minute promo, and essentially say "See you all in 6-7 months!" every time. The Cena feud was nowhere near what I though it would be, for Rock or for Cena. I have no reason to believe Rock/Punk would be any different. When I stopped watching wrestling in '04 he was down to around 3-4 appearances per year. Now it feels like 1-2. Either you're back or you're not.

[Forehead]

http://www.angelfire.com/wrestling3/kotdm15/listsleeze.html

You can kill a lot of time reading these, even though many of them are ridiculous and a few are difficult to read or understand.

[Mr. Sinister]

Couldn't read through all of that, but I did get to 45, and was aware of 22, 31, and 37. I wouldn't be surprised if Sunny ran through the entire locker room. Ahmed Johnson allegedly had some type of agreement between Candido & Sunny that involved coke in exchange for ass.

There are also rumors about Jacqueline doing the same thing. Not surprising, considering that wrestling at it's lowest level, is pretty sick, and a lot of people come up through that, and by the time they're in WWE, they're on the road, and have to be around each other 300 days a year.

I saw one on Sabu while I was scrolling. I'm pretty sure that all of the ECW guys were insane. I'd be shocked if they weren't. I also read somewhere that Balls Mahoney was an occultist. I'd guess that most of those old school to early '00s wrestlers are certified nutjobs.

Edited October 25, 2012 by Mr. Sinister

[SonOfWashington]

Since WM XXIX is going to be in East Rutherford, is WM XXX still going to be in Madison Square Garden? I've assumed it would be since 2004, when it was known that the first, tenth and twentieth WM are held in the Garden.

[DM72]

Since WM XXIX is going to be in East Rutherford, is WM XXX still going to be in Madison Square Garden? I've assumed it would be since 2004, when it was known that the first, tenth and twentieth WM are held in the Garden.

I don't think it will be and it might never be again. WM has grown into a stadium event. My prediction for WM 30 location will be either Toronto or Dallas.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Couldn't read through all of that, but I did get to 45, and was aware of 22, 31, and 37. I wouldn't be surprised if Sunny ran through the entire locker room. Ahmed Johnson allegedly had some type of agreement between Candido & Sunny that involved coke in exchange for ass.

There are also rumors about Jacqueline doing the same thing. Not surprising, considering that wrestling at it's lowest level, is pretty sick, and a lot of people come up through that, and by the time they're in WWE, they're on the road, and have to be around each other 300 days a year.

I saw one on Sabu while I was scrolling. I'm pretty sure that all of the ECW guys were insane. I'd be shocked if they weren't. I also read somewhere that Balls Mahoney was an occultist. I'd guess that most of those old school to early '00s wrestlers are certified nutjobs.

apparently she was real sleaze back in the day and she used to mess around with Jeff Jarrett while he was married

[Houston2Taylor2Landry]

I read'em all. Really funny stuff. A lot of them I already knew from shoot interviews but most of them were new.

Can't imagine Austin hung out with HHH, Steph, and Chyna , though. That rumor seems a bit far fetched.

And holy crap, Raven was involved in a lot of ish, as was JBL but he is a well known DBAG.

[JOSH8572]

does undertaker still wrestle. havent seen him in a long time.