The Figure Four - ALL Things ECW-WWF-NJPW-TNA-ROH-AEW

[jobaga]

I mean Rikishi was a big time player from 2000 to 2001 (involved in main events with Rock, Austin, etc.), was over as hell, a part of a family dynasty...

Why can't he be a hall of famer? There are FAR worse choices already in

He would be in the gimmick HOF...

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Although them turning him heel was one of the dumbest ideas of the attitude era

Also, quick question: has Big Show ever been good in WWE?

Face or heel, he's always just been obnoxious as hell and boring to me. I respect him as an OG of sorts but yeah. His best stuff was in WCW

[DM72]

You guys are talking about the Bushwhackers and no one even bothered to mention their previous name, The New Zealand Sheepherders.

Lol...LKB, I hope you're not losing your touch.

And I understand where you guys are coming from in wanting the old guys to hang up the boots. But the facts are those guys are STULL more relevant than the new guys. And these new guys are never going to take the place of Hogan, Flair, Piper, Hart, The Undertaker, Michaelsor Sting. Those guys are iconic. Hard to replace icons.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

Although them turning him heel was one of the dumbest ideas of the attitude era

Also, quick question: has Big Show ever been good in WWE?

Face or heel, he's always just been obnoxious as hell and boring to me. I respect him as an OG of sorts but yeah. His best stuff was in WCW

I thought he did good work with Shane when that feud was going on but that was definitely a case of Shane bringing the whole thing up a notch. I loved Shane-o-Mac as an entertainer.

Edit- back to Rikishi , I'd require more than a 2 year run of decent work before being in the HOF. If he is in a wrestling HOF for his career worth of work that's one thing, but the WWE HOF? Pardon the pun, but he was literally the butt of a joke during his time in WWE.

Makes no sense to me.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Momma There Goes That Man

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

You guys are talking about the Bushwhackers and no one even bothered to mention their previous name, The New Zealand Sheepherders.

Lol...LKB, I hope you're not losing your touch.

And I understand where you guys are coming from in wanting the old guys to hang up the boots. But the facts are those guys are STULL more relevant than the new guys. And these new guys are never going to take the place of Hogan, Flair, Piper, Hart, The Undertaker, Michaelsor Sting. Those guys are iconic. Hard to replace icons.

That's 110% true and that's the biggest issue imo.

 

I mean I watch old **** on the Network daily and BARELY watch any of the current product

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

He would be in the gimmick HOF...

 

I thought he did good work with Shane when that feud was going on but that was definitely a case of Shane bringing the whole thing up a notch. I loved Shane-o-Mac as an entertainer.

Edit- back to Rikishi , I'd require more than a 2 year run of decent work before being in the HOF. If he is in a wrestling HOF for his career worth of work that's one thing, but the WWE HOF? Pardon the pun, but he was literally the butt of a joke during his time in WWE.

Makes no sense to me.

Hacksaw Duggan, Bullet Bob Armstrong, Abdullah the Butcher, Carlos Colon and Koko B Ware are in lol. All of those guys are either career mid carders, gimmick wrestlers, or established their legacy completely independent of the WWE

 

Rikishi is fine. 

[Mr. Sinister]

I still remember when the Undertaker threw him off the cage in that Armageddon Hell In a Cell free for all. I legitimately thought he was going to die. I mean, thats a lot of ass flying through the air.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

And maybe I'm biased because I loved rikishi because I love big men that are actually athletic and can move.

He was a solid performer that had his legs yanked out from beneath him by a dumb ass booking move

[jobaga]

Hacksaw Duggan, Bullet Bob Armstrong, Abdullah the Butcher, Carlos Colon and Koko B Ware are in lol. All of those guys are either career mid carders, gimmick wrestlers, or established their legacy completely independent of the WWE

 

Rikishi is fine. 

Fair point. At the end of the day, it's probably just another way to push Roman Reigns and his impressive linage. Either way, you can't blame a guy for wins/losses and position on the card because as Roman Reigns push would indicate, outcomes, positioning, championships and even gimmicks are all determined through backstage politics...

[KDawg]

I guess I see the point in older wrestlers not being around. But I just don't agree with it. Sting is one of the biggest names in the biggest boom period wrestling has ever had. His being in the WWE is a huge deal. Him wrestling in the WWE is an even bigger deal.

Maybe not from a wrestling perspective, but from a historical perspective you don't get much bigger.

And if Taker is used to give Wyatt a huge forward push, then what's the problem? I think Taker has earned that right.

The issue with the old guys, in my opinion, is the overall frequency in how much they use them. It's unreal. They're always on RAW. I could do without that's often.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

And maybe I'm biased because I loved rikishi because I love big men that are actually athletic and can move.

He was a solid performer that had his legs yanked out from beneath him by a dumb ass booking move

. Are you referring to running over Austin?

Hacksaw Duggan, Bullet Bob Armstrong, Abdullah the Butcher, Carlos Colon and Koko B Ware are in lol. All of those guys are either career mid carders, gimmick wrestlers, or established their legacy completely independent of the WWE

Rikishi is fine.

6 wrongs don't make a right

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

LOL true

And yeah I'm talking about that Austin angle.

That **** sucked so badly

[Mr. Sinister]

That angle was doneski once Austin beat the hell outof Rikishi at No Mercy.

Then they had to save it by making Triple H the mastermind

[KDawg]

Officially announced that WWE will have a "multi-man ladder match for the IC Title at WrestleMania".

 

They didn't go into details, but given the current storyline I'd say the definites are:

 

Barrett

Ambrose

Ziggler

Bryan

R-Truth

 

And a not so definite that I think could be added: Sheamus

 

This is good news for the IC title. Though I'd ultimately merge it with the US Title, make them the upper mid/fringe ME title and then re-add the European title as the mid to low mid title. But hey, at this point, an elevated IC title looks good to me.

 

So naturally, I wouldn't be surprised if they screwed this up and gave R-Truth the strap.

[Forehead]

Did I just see one or more people complaining about the Bushwhackers and Rikishi because it's a WWE Hall of Fame and not a wrestling hall of Fame.  Go look at this history of the company, it was the old CWC, and part of the NWA alliance, but still it's own distinct territory.  If you want to be that picky, you'd have to throw out half the people that are in the Hall of Fame already.

 

Maybe there were better choices out there, but Rikishi and the Bushwhackers had very distinguished, long careers, if you care to focus beyond the Stinkface or two guys licking each others heads.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I find debates about the WWE Hall of Fame silly. Vince Sr's limo driver is in. Savage was not until this year.

 

So...whatever. I'm happy whenever old wrestlers get a payday and some attention.

 

What bothers me is that the WWE now owns all of wrestling's history for all intents and purposes. And they are going to be able to present that in whatever manner they see fit.

 

Jumping back to the Hall of Fame a bit....you know who should be in? (And god knows he could use the check)......

 

Tommy Rich.

 

You could very make an argument that Tommy Rich was the first national wrestling star of the cable era and the first national wrestling star since Gorgeous George. I think he was easily the biggest babyface in the world from the late 70s until Hogan turned up in WWF. The only other dude who could make an arugment is Dusty.

 

The dude really faded after that run, but he was still involved in one of the most memorable angles in Memphis wrestling history - which is saying a lot in its own right. And then he had that weird, fun run in ECW when that company was hot.

 

He also turns up in some weird wrestling trivia.

 

The fact that he was in one of the biggest matches of the 80s (the last Battle of Atlanta) which took place in a major arena for a national company....and there is no footage of the match.

 

The fact that he was NWA champion when that really meant something...and there is no footage of either match and to this day no one really knows why or how that happened.

 

The fact that he was standing there stunned when Doug Gilbert said that Jerry Lawler rapes 13 year old girls on live tv and basically brought down Memphis wrestling for good.

 

I think he has been left out because Vince doesn't want an old dude with yellow teeth talking about "rasslin'" on his tv show.

[KDawg]

I heard great things about Ring of Honor's PPV last night. $35 is too much for my blood to order it. But if they did a $5/month sub service (probably not worth it for them at that rate) I'd probably get and pay for it. That PPV sounded like it was a fun WRESTLING show.

 

Tommy Rich would be an excellent inductee into the hall. There's a lot of guys who should get in. How about these names:

 

Lou Thesz

The Freebirds

Bruiser Brody

Bulldog

Vader

Ray Stevens

Rick Rude

Ken Patera

Jushin Liger

Elizabeth

Brian Pillman

Kevin Sullivan

Jim Neidhart (as part of the Hart Foundation, not as an individual)

Owen Hart (I think there's some kind of family snag there)

Sable

Taz (won't happen until done with TNA)

Kurt Angle (won't happen until done with TNA)

Tommy Dreamer

Paul Heyman

Ken Shamrock

Lord Alfred Hayes

Bull Nakano

 

I'm sure there's others I'm missing. And those are just performers. What about guys like Jim Johnston who makes most of the theme music? He's been a huge part of things.

Edited March 2, 2015 by KDawg

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

People seem really fired up for Wrestlemania.

 

/Points to sign.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Lou Thesz - Should be in already. There is no money there though.

The Freebirds - Will almost certaininly go in next year in Dallas. It's crazy that Michael Hayes works there and has never gone in.

Bruiser Brody - I don't think anyone in America knows who he is at this point. To be honest, I know more about his legend than his work. He never stuck around any territory very long.

Bulldog - Probably will go in eventually. His problem is you can't put in all the dead guys under 50 at once.

Vader - I think Vince is pissed at him. Not sure.

Ray Stevens - Another one who should have been in a while ago. This year would have made sense with WM being in Frisco. He and Patterson were tight.

Rick Rude - Another dead guy who also left on bad terms.

Ken Patera - I can't see it happening. I'm not sure it should. He was really good for three or four years in the Backlund era, then completely fell apart.

Jushin Liger - Nah.

Elizabeth - Too depressing to talk about.

Brian Pillman - Christ, this is a morbid list.

Kevin Sullivan - He should be in. I think Vince hates him.

Jim Neidhart (as part of the Hart Foundation, not as an individual) - Dead guy.

Owen Hart (I think there's some kind of family snag there) - Yes, but really depressing to talk about.

Sable - She'll go in to make Brock happy someday.

Taz (won't happen until done with TNA) - I don't see why he would go in to be honest. He was, like, the tenth most interesting person in ECW.

Kurt Angle (won't happen until done with TNA) - Probably deserves it. Is a total train wreck.

Tommy Dreamer - Nah.

Paul Heyman - Yes.

Ken Shamrock - Won't but is an interesting idea.

Lord Alfred Hayes - I say no, just because I think he stunk at everything. Boring wrestler. Boring announcer.

Bull Nakano - Too foreign and is a not hot woman.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

To be totally honest....there ain't that many dudes who should be in that aren't at this point. And there are too many dudes who are in that shouldn't be.

 

I mean, Neidhart is an interesting discussion. He is famous because he was in a pretty good tag team with a true all-time great wrestler and a pretty amazing manager. But if you put him in, you are basically saying, "Any world tag team champion should be in the Hall of Fame." And in go The Moondogs....which I would actually be in favor of now that I think about it. I loved The Moondogs. Spot could work his aff off.

 

Assuming that no one really gives a damn about the 60s and 70s except Jim Cornette, I feel like we've sucked the 80s and 90s dry at this point.

 

The big glaring omissions to me are The Rock and Roll Express and The Midnight Express and I want them in just so Ricky Morton can pay his electric bill.

[Mr. Sinister]

I think Shamrock did a lot in terms of making submission moves popular, tbh, along with the "Tap out" rules.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Mr. Sinister

[lovetoaster]

 Assuming that no one really gives a damn about the 60s and 70s except Jim Cornette, I feel like we've sucked the 80s and 90s dry at this point.

 

I was thinking about that a few days ago. They are going to run out of people to put into the Hall of Fame. There are plenty of people that deserve to go in at this point, but after putting a handful of people in each year and removing the people that Vince has a beef with, the pool is going to be pretty shallow shortly.

 

And speaking of depressing, did anyone happen to catch the 30 for 30 short on the Von Erichs? ESPN aired it last Friday; I was going to post it here, but it looks like it has been removed. The only thing i can find is this clip: http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=12393210

[TexasSkinsFan]

You guys are talking about the Bushwhackers and no one even bothered to mention their previous name, The New Zealand Sheepherders.

 

The Sheepherders in the MidSouth/UWF/Memphis era were awesome! The cartoonist characters they became in the WWF were funny but I will always have a fond memory of Luke and Butch because they remind me of these old days

 

 

There were several versions of the Sheepherders like this one Kiwi Sheephearders in the CWA who was Jonathan Boyd and Rip Morgan

 

 

But the originals, the ones that I remember fondly when they were going against the Fantastics Butch and Luke were awesome. And most people have no idea that they started wrestling in the 1960's long before they hit the WWF. I have no problem with them being in the HOF and deserve to be there. Not for what they did in 1989 in the WWF but for having the careers they did

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bushwhackers#The_New_Sheepherders

 

Good read about them even though it is wiki lol

Edited March 3, 2015 by hankersonfan

[TexasSkinsFan]

Hacksaw Duggan, Bullet Bob Armstrong, Abdullah the Butcher, Carlos Colon and Koko B Ware are in lol. All of those guys are either career mid carders, gimmick wrestlers, or established their legacy completely independent of the WWE

 

Rikishi is fine. 

 

Each of those guys to me have a place in a Wrestling hall of fame with the only really questionable member there being Koko B Ware because he didn't even wrestle for a decade. Rikishi wrestled for over 20 years, and was a member of some of my favorite tag teams - Samoan Swat Team, The Head Shrinkers - not to mention his late career run as Rikishi. Not sure why anyone would have a problem with him being in. Koko on the other hand I still don't understand?

Edited March 3, 2015 by hankersonfan

[KDawg]

LKB,

Neidhart isn't dead, sir.