Is this adultery?

[Art]

Not quite. There is a big difference between condoning her behavior and not vindictively punishing her. It seems you would chose to behave like an animal and hurt her for spite and anything less in your eyes is not "manly".

I think it depends where in the conversation you place this. As I started in the thread, Brave's response in my view would not be overly hurtful to anyone. It would be clear and detailed and the future would be obvious without substantial change in the spouse. As we've moved further, upon repeat betrayals as asked to be contemplated by Candace you would likely seek to cause as much hurt as you can to such a person as Candace described. Be it physical, legal, emotional, whatever, your options become those you may find appropriate for the situation you're faced with.

Indeed, not confronting Tony to start this would be unmanly. No doubt about it. And you'd confront him along the precise lines I said. The subsequent conversation about violence only exists because I had the audacity to say, in fact, violence in life is not always unacceptable. And, I've offered numerous examples as to how that may be the case. My guess is every single person here agrees with each example.

So, the animals are those who are not able to address any specific rationale and simply can't get beyond the concept violence CAN be an appropriate response in any number of situations.

[Big Weirdo]

it was already on its' way. i guess my foresight is better than yours.

Apparently. I think I should make my way back to my home now. I think you all know where that is.

[Jumbo]

Although this was generally lost by most in the melee Jumbo I chuckled at this.

I know not why you laugh; I am always deadly serious.

[SnyderShrugged]

The common misconception of the actual translation to English of adultery is that it's cheating or sexual.

adultery is actually correctly defined as being anything that results (or would result if known by the spouse) in the end of your marital committments.

This is adultery.

[AlexRS]

You can know that you are not doing enough' date=' but not know what you are doing wrong in the same breath. That is where she did wrong by not communicating what is wrong. One can not read peoples' minds. In order to better serve( for lack of a better word) the other, there has to be communication. It is the same as sex... communication is key. If she says this... ok u know where im going [/quote']

Yeah, I think this is the hardest part... She could be insecure about something silly, but she'd be communicating that you are not giving her enough flowers

This part probably gives the whole "communication" business a bad rap. She thinks it is about flowers... the communication is now about flowers... while flowers have nothing to do with this!

Women tend to be more emotional than men, so it is usually up to us to figure out what is really happening here. Men who think being controlled by their emotions (i.e. getting angry) is somehow "manly" are sadly mistaken. It is anything but.

I think it is important to remember that people, when being emotional, simply lack the rational capacity to see clearly. More over, their rationality itself is actually enslaved by that emotion.(http://www.eqtoday.com/archive/hijack.html)

Neurobiology is facinating....

[Jumbo]

I went over 4000 posts in this thread. And I'm not even in AHFB. I think we need to turn this to how great I am and how this site really owes me for much of its grandeur.

[Big Weirdo]

I went over 4000 posts in this thread. And I'm not even in AHFB. I think we need to turn this to how great I am and how this site really owes me for much of its grandeur.

:laugh:

:notworthy :notworthy

[Major Harris]

I went over 4000 posts in this thread. And I'm not even in AHFB. I think we need to turn this to how great I am and how this site really owes me for much of its grandeur.

you've been reading the ahfb too much....you're starting to sound like who del. :laugh:

[TheREALJBird]

I went over 4000 posts in this thread. And I'm not even in AHFB. I think we need to turn this to how great I am and how this site really owes me for much of its grandeur.

The invitation is always open for you in the AHFB Jumbo

[PleaseBlitz]

I went over 4000 posts in this thread. And I'm not even in AHFB. I think we need to turn this to how great I am and how this site really owes me for much of its grandeur.

Jumbo, if you were my wife and you cheated on me, I wouldnt beat you.

[Art]

I'm not proposing that physical action is not ever necessary . I guess I define violence and physical intervention differently. Violence would be I found out my wife was cheating and gave her a "beatdown". I think thats wrong and myself wouldn't do that.

If I saw my wife suffocating my child I would intervene, then get her into police and phsyciatric custody ASAP. Same if I caught her abusing a child. To me it crosses the line when you catch her doing one of those things and go past stopping it and start beating her for it.

I guess to sum it up for me is its not ok to get physical unless something is being done phsicaly to you or another and you need to stop it while its in progress.

Ok. So, if your wife his hitting you, you think it would be ok to get physical back? She's doing something physical to you and you now think that's an acceptable time to respond physically? If she's harming your child, you agree you'd get physical. So, if you walked in and caught her riding someone, you'd do WHAT exactly? Oh, but, if you catch her killing your child, you would beat her only until she couldn't do it anymore, but if you went further, then it's wrong?

What if I tell you, sure, all this is fine and all this simply reinforces my statement that there is a time we all can consider where violence is a viable option. Which is the entire premise of this long, winding conversation. I doubt you'd not extend your scale of getting physical to severe emotional attacks on you, especially in a snap moment.

[Xameil]

well as Larry the Cable Guy says..

Guns don't kill people, husbands who come home early do.

[smalex41]

It sounds as tho they both "stopped" caring or considering what they were doing to each other. When pride becomes an issue, they must seriously account for their own actions in their marriage.

You "REAP WHAT YOU SOW" !!

[Jumbo]

you've been reading the ahfb too much....you're starting to sound like who del. :laugh:

For that, I reccommend violence against you-get over here :laugh:

Now, were I truly caring of my brothers, I would be torn between concern that I may be hijacking this thread lately which may please Henry yet irritate Art. This leaves me conflicted. I need to figure how to irritate them both.

<lovely set-up available>

[DCsportsfan53]

we'll disagree on this one. when people start saying beating wives is cool, in or out of context, the thread has run its' course, imo. i've seen threads shut down w/ far less venom than this.

I think it's an exaggeration to say that anyone came out and said beating wives is cool, though I agree a man should never raise his hand to a woman, never. I've seen it to, but for the most part there was solid back and forth debate and actual points being made and opinions expressed. So long as that's the case, I don't think a thread should be stopped because it offends people. They should be stopped when they degenerate to personal insults and cease to contain anything other than that. In my mind, far too many people inappropriately equate disagreement to offense. :2cents:

[Jumbo]

The invitation is always open for you in the AHFB Jumbo

In the words of Woody Allen: "I can't see joining any club that would have someone like me as a member."

[Destino]

Jumbo, if you were my wife and you cheated on me, I wouldnt beat you.

PB is tossing out classic lines all over the place in this thread. :laugh:

[chomerics]

Brave, not that you will get this after some caveman posts, but I did find something really obnoxious about most of the "advice". Nobody actually took the time to ask you what YOU want. :doh:

The way I see it you have two choices.

1. Leave her

2. Stay with her.

Simple as that, and you can then make your decisions from there. If you take the "Art" approach, i would suggest you go home, pack up your bags and leave. It leads to nothing as far as confronting Tony, and only trouble can come about it. Even worse, you can push her towards him by acting like an ass.

If you decide that you want to stay with her, you have a number of options. First and foremost, I wouls highly suggest counceling. Marriages get stale after a long time if two people don't continue to work at them. It is human nature, and people just get comfortable. It is not an excuse for her actions, but a simple fact of life, sometimes the grass appears greener to other people because they are not getting their needs filled at home. This is by no means a knock at you, everyone takes their significant other for granted, and sometimes people just like the feeling of want from someone else. The first step is to seek out counceling from a reptutable marriage counciler. THey can do WONDERS for a marriage, and they can take a horrible situation and make it great. Marriages take work from both sides on a constant basis, but in order to open up lines of communication, you need to have someone steer the ship for you. Professional help is a must, and it can make a WORLD of difference for both of you, and your relationship.

Your problem is a very common problem for many many couples. After you have children, you become parents first, and lovers second. . .sometimes third. Then when people get a bit of attention, they feel alive again. It is very common, and it is human nature. It is up to the individuals to make sure their partners are interested in the relationship, and you get out what you put in. So the decision is up to you, you can decide to leave it is your perrogative, but it is also the easy way out. It is why over 50% of marriages end in divorce, people quit way to easy. When it gets tough, people pack up and run. There is no shame in leaving, but it is not really tackling the problem, and it will come up again in the future.

If you decide to stay, my only suggestion to you would be to get counceling, and to change the way you approach your marriage. Teach yourself how to discuss your feelings, wants and needs with your spouse, and make it a point to understand what she is looking for. You may find out that your marriage will be stronger then ever because of this, and you are able to discuss anything with your spouse. It is possible, but not without work. It won;t just happen on its own, and it does take two.

The best of luck to you Brave, I truly hope everything works out OK for you and your family.

[DCsportsfan53]

Ok. So, if your wife his hitting you, you think it would be ok to get physical back? She's doing something physical to you and you now think that's an acceptable time to respond physically? If she's harming your child, you agree you'd get physical. So, if you walked in and caught her riding someone, you'd do WHAT exactly? Oh, but, if you catch her killing your child, you would beat her only until she couldn't do it anymore, but if you went further, then it's wrong?

What if I tell you, sure, all this is fine and all this simply reinforces my statement that there is a time we all can consider where violence is a viable option. Which is the entire premise of this long, winding conversation. I doubt you'd not extend your scale of getting physical to severe emotional attacks on you, especially in a snap moment.

I would have to respecfully disagree on that point. You can intervene and cease an activity without using violence. Case in point, pull your wife off your child, restrain her and call the cops. No need to dish out a physical punishment. Self defense is different from violence. I personally don't believe there is a justification for a man hitting a woman. :2cents:

[Jumbo]

Jumbo, if you were my wife and you cheated on me, I wouldnt beat you.

Honey, I can gaurantee you'd look lovely in the dress.

[Art]

:paranoid: Um, I don't know about anyone else but I'll take being cheated on over being physically raped ANY and every day of the week :laugh: That leaves emotional scars too, you know. And don't take this post seriously, I just found that to be an interesting statement so I thought I'd be a smartass

You do bring up a good point though. When weighing the impact betrayal has on a person and the subsequent conversation, it appears a block of people actually think it's WORSE to lash out and hit an unfaithful spouse than it is to actually BE unfaithful. Being unfaithful can be talked out. You must communicate about it. You must give the unfaithful person the choice.

Seriously. If I started a poll I wonder the results.

What's worse.

1) Hitting someone who cheated on you.

2) Cheating on someone.

Judging from the responses here you'd almost think the act in RESPONSE is somehow worse. The question above removes a lot of the nuance in the conversation since most on the other side don't understand what any of that is .

[visionary]

Dude, Candace used this near exact quote.

Whether you feel a physical response to a physical betrayal is abuse or not, what do you term the betrayal itself? What is worse? A person who goes out and violates the trust placed in the family and marriage, or a person who responds to that violation in a fit of fury and disbelieving rage.

I have no idea what I would term the betrayel, but I don't think it really matters which is worse. Only what is a good response (or an acceptable one, but that's a bit vague and open to a lot of interpretation). I don't think beating the wife is a good response to her actions.

Betrayels happen all the time, it doesn't mean it's ok to beat the crap out of someone for betraying you. Especially not if it's your wife. Unless maybe she tried to have you killed...even then there are a lot of other, probably better options. But that's just my opinion.

Personally I understand your position, I just don't agree with it. I'm not nearly as upset as a lot of people here are...and I generally agree with you on a lot of the stuff you post.

I just wanted to point out that beating one's wife for cheating or betrayel of trust or whatever, is still abuse...

in fact I would bet that it's what a lot of abusers use as an excuse for their actions, even when a lot of times the betrayel is only imaginary...(but that's a seperate issue)

(I also wanted to make sure that you understand that a lot of people are pretty mad at you on here right now. (I know I said it already, but I'm not sure you really understand this yet.) Some of them haven't said so because they don't/didn't think that they can/could keep from losing control, because they were so pissed off. I just wanted you to understand the depth of the feelings some people have about this and in particular your coments here and the way you said them :2cents: )

[Art]

Not speaking to you in particular but I'm not really sure why so many people think this thread should've been shut down. There's nothing wrong with passionate debate. If you were offended, good, you don't have a right not to be offended, you have a right to free speech. Big distinction in my mind that's been far too blurred these days in our society.

Talk like that can make you a mod.

The mental midgets who apparently think their sensibilities should dictate conversation are a problem. People speaking their viewpoints is NEVER a problem.

[Jumbo]

Brave, not that you will get this after some caveman posts, but I did find something really obnoxious about most of the "advice". Nobody actually took the time to ask you what YOU want. :doh:

The best of luck to you Brave, I truly hope everything works out OK for you and your family.

Chom, just so you know amigo, if you had/have read the whole thread, you'd see/have seen he had already been offered all these same thoughts, so whatever addtional events transpired here, neglect of the very messages you wished to send was not among them.

[HOF44]

Ok. So, if your wife his hitting you, you think it would be ok to get physical back? She's doing something physical to you and you now think that's an acceptable time to respond physically? If she's harming your child, you agree you'd get physical. So, if you walked in and caught her riding someone, you'd do WHAT exactly? Oh, but, if you catch her killing your child, you would beat her only until she couldn't do it anymore, but if you went further, then it's wrong?

What if I tell you, sure, all this is fine and all this simply reinforces my statement that there is a time we all can consider where violence is a viable option. Which is the entire premise of this long, winding conversation. I doubt you'd not extend your scale of getting physical to severe emotional attacks on you, especially in a snap moment.

If I caught her in the act, I would probably walk out and take a hammer to her car which she loves.

If she's hitting you you restrain her. To me there is self control, you respond appropriatly. Same if a man attacked you physicaly, you do what you have to to stop it, then it ends. You don't kick him in the head after you beat him off you and he's down.

I can handle "severe emotional attacks" without hitting anyone.