Is this adultery?

[Major Harris]

now no one can argue stupid-pants...there's just no response to that :laugh:

don't tempt art. :laugh:

[CandaceM23]

Likewise, I find your position foolish and unrelated to reality. If you equate marital betrayal of this sort as "lying" I feel sorry for you. It is more than that. It's the worst thing a person can do to another person. It is WORSE than a physical rape, because physical pain can heal. Emotional scars heal less well and impact people for life.

That you hold so little regard to the bonds of marriage is your problem that likely will make it hard for you to enjoy a lasting, fulfilling relationship. Whether it does or not is irrelevant. You suggest a man/woman faced with the worst betrayal that can occur -- which as you described was it happening, then happening again after assurances with the same person -- should sit and talk it out. I'm not a member of that world. I hope to die before the rest of the world joins up.

Now, that doesn't mean faced with this I would immediately resort to a physical response. Merely that should I, or someone else, it would certainly be well within the bounds of acceptable reply.

Art, I feel the same - you think that I'm foolish for not wanting to make a situation anyworse than what it already is, I think that you're foolish for wanting to pound the crap out of a man.

As for the rape comment - you can't me serious. If someone, whether it be a woman or a male is violated sexually, do you even know of the potential damage? There's EMOTIONAL and PHYSICAL damage. This might be one of the most ridiculous things that you've said today. Imagine a woman is raped. Suddenly she becomes incredibly anxious and aware of her surroundings, she feels physically violated and probably scared to death of men. I can guarantee you that the wounds sustained from a rape take just as long if not longer to heal than an affair.

You have no idea of how I feel about marriage Art. You don't. You're making opinions about my ideals based on what I've said on here. Not once have you sat down and asked me what I thought about marriage, if I was married, if I've had relationships, if I'm in a relationship now.

For what it's worth, I'm scared to death of marriage. I'm not ready to be married, nor will I be ready for a while. With seeing what my best friend is going through (the one who's being cheated on by her husband), what my coworker is going through (SHE'S CHEATING ON HER HUSBAND), whats depicted on modern television and what's been said in my presence (whether it be a conversation with friends or this message board) I know that I'm not ready to get married. I am deathly afraid of being hurt the way that I've seen my best friend hurt. I cannot tell you how many times I've sat up with her, night after night, day after day and listened to her cry - and cried with her and for her.

I do not ever want to experience that pain.

And yes, I have dated before and I've been in meaningful relationships. I've faced heartache just like anyone else. Someone on this board has nicknamed me 'heartbreaker.' I don't take relationships lightly. I believe that when you're with someone, you give that person your all.

I won't lie ... I've been cheated on ... the first person that I fell in love with cheated on me. This man had my heart and I honestly believed that he was the man that I was going to marry. I dated him for years and had my heart broken. Instead of going after him and creating conflict, I did what Rince has suggested throughout this thread and I walked away. It hurt, but I had to do it. Despite the fact that I loved him, the trust was no longer there and there was no way that it was going to be regained.

I have always told myself that I would never get married until I can support myself to what I thought was an acceptable nature. I'm not at that point yet so I'm not married and I'm not ready for it. And like I said before, with what I've seen and dealt with - I'm not ready for that.

So, with that being said ... maybe you should think about asking questions before you assume something about someone ... especially when it's something as serious as marriage.

[Major Harris]

TK is becoming more accepting of having a little penis.

[Jumbo]

Isn't there a rule against creative editing of another guys post? :laugh:

[Major Harris]

Isn't there a rule against creative editing of another guys post? :laugh:

it'd be hard to enforce many rules in here.

[DCsportsfan53]

Isn't there a rule against creative editing of another guys post? :laugh:

If there is, it should be stircken from the books, it's too much fun. God damn kill joy mods and their rules

[visionary]

Isn't there a rule against creative editing of another guys post? :laugh:

There ought to be, I hate when people do that...

[TheREALJBird]

There ought to be, I hate when people do that...

If i'm not mistaken...didn't you do that to one of my posts last night?

[Byner21]

Fortunately for you, some of us have a bit more mental stability to accept others viewpoints than you seem to. The fact is, whether you appreciate it or not, there are situations you'd be faced with in life where the response to physically lash out would be perfectly appropriate and even heroic depending on the description -- which doesn't always fit infidelity conversations, though sometimes may.

Your fixation at extending my views with the views of others is your own burden and problem. Bring it to the attention of anyone you like. The context with which the words were stated and continued consistency in statement subsequent leaves me perfectly able to verbalize exactly what was said. You've chosen not to pay attention to it and blame me for your inattention.

Braveheart: Heroic

Divorcing your wife because she cheats: Smart

Beating your wife because she cheats: Barbaric

Telling a woman, "I hate to break it to you, but, you're a girl": Chauvinistic

Encouraging people to "introduce" their wife to the "pain train" in certain circumstances: Macho, unprofessional, and disgusting

I've made two promises to my fiancee: I'll never cheat on you, and I'll never hit you. Cheating is terrible, terrible thing to do to someone you love. To betray the most important person in your life is AWFUL.

BUT...you can wash your words with soap and water, and pretty 'em up with creative defenses and explanations (with a little condescension thrown in), but that does not change the fact that you wrote this:

Candace, I hate to break it to you, but, you're a girl. You have no idea what you're talking about. It IS Tony's fault. It's MORE the wife's fault. But, Tony is to blame and men understand men addressing one another and settling issues and limits. Once the wife makes her assurances, should she violate them, indeed, you probably should introduce her to the pain train, but, at the very least, you take everything you can from her, and destroy what pieces of her life you can destroy, whether physically or not. Though, to be fair, it IS not always wrong to hit a woman. In a case like you describe, it should be encouraged.

Shocking.

[visionary]

If i'm not mistaken...didn't you do that to one of my posts last night?

I doubt it...

[Jumbo]

God damn kill joy mods and their rules

I was added to the staff specifcially to kill joy. I will absolutely decimate merriment. I will strangle diversity. I will subjugate civility and corrupt it until it becomes indistinguishabale from rancid resentment. I will obliterate dissent and grind reasonable opposition beneath the iron heel of my ignorance and arrogance. Of course, I need to do this somewhere other than the tailgate or no one will notice me as standing out.

[DCsportsfan53]

I was added to the staff specifcially to kill joy. I will absolutely decimate merriment. I will strangle diversity. I will subjugate civility and corrupt it until it becomes indistinguishabale from rancid resentment. I will obliterate dissent and grind reasonable opposition beneath the iron heel of my ignorance and arrogance. Of course, I need to do this somewhere other than the tailgate or no one will notice me as standing out.

:laugh: Art, is that you?

You're a funny guy Jumbo, I like you. :thumbsup:

Edit: I like smilies, too.

[Tarhog]

:laugh: Art, is that you?

You're a funny guy Jumbo, I like you. :thumbsup:

Edit: I like smilies, too.

Thats too bad.

He was serious. I know. I'm his mentor.

[Goaldeje]

As for the rape comment - you can't me serious. If someone, whether it be a woman or a male is violated sexually, do you even know of the potential damage? There's EMOTIONAL and PHYSICAL damage. This might be one of the most ridiculous things that you've said today. Imagine a woman is raped. Suddenly she becomes incredibly anxious and aware of her surroundings, she feels physically violated and probably scared to death of men. I can guarantee you that the wounds sustained from a rape take just as long if not longer to heal than an affair.

This is a difficult comparison to make, having experience in neither, either first-hand or through a friend or family member. Having said that, I think both are exceptionally horrible things to have happen, but I'm not sure you can even place rape as being worse than cheating. By your own admission, you are not married, and thus can not imagine the emotional committment entering into that sacred instiution involves. I can only imagine (thankfully, and reluctantly) the pain breaking that committment through cheating would bring. Yes, the emotional scars for rape are horrendous, but don't discount those created by cheating.

I won't lie ... I've been cheated on ... the first person that I fell in love with cheated on me. This man had my heart and I honestly believed that he was the man that I was going to marry. I dated him for years and had my heart broken. Instead of going after him and creating conflict, I did what Rince has suggested throughout this thread and I walked away. It hurt, but I had to do it. Despite the fact that I loved him, the trust was no longer there and there was no way that it was going to be regained.

At the risk of upsetting you, you weren't married. Walking away is fine in a dating situation. People can talk all day long about the committment involved while dating, and that's all fine, but marriage is something completely different. Marriage is not simply an extension of dating, or it should not be. Dating is a committment, certainly, but marriage is a life-long committment. To do as Rince suggests and simply walk away is erroneous. You have to fight for it as much as you can. If the other person won't fight with you, then you consider dropping it. Dating is convenience, marriage is committment.

[RiggoReincarnated]

Holy ****. Why can't we get over 500 posts in one day on a thread about the Skins

[Art]

TK is becoming more accepting of having a little boo.

And Art ruined that dress trying to squeeze into it.

And I was only squeezing doom into the dress, if you know what I mean.

[iheartskins]

Jumbo--I'm a little late with a reply as I had to go into a meeting, but in your reply to me you raise a totally fair point and one I've attempted to address in my reply to Art above. A few distinctions should be made here. First, I definitely agree that there is no way to anticipate who someone will be in 5, 10 or 20 years down the line--that kind of foresight is impossible; as a corrollary, it's also close to impossible to know whether one or both of the spouses will cheat over the course of the relationship. However, I think it usually is pretty clear, assuming you've engaged in my NSA due diligence, that your spouse will not rape your children or molest your pets, etc.

This leads to the second distinction, to wit, those situations in which I believe one can justify violence in an immediate family. For me, and I think this may be different than Art, I'm really only comfortable with the concept of using force in the child/pet rape situations.

But point taken Jumbo.

[CandaceM23]

This is a difficult comparison to make, having experience in neither, either first-hand or through a friend or family member. Having said that, I think both are exceptionally horrible things to have happen, but I'm not sure you can even place rape as being worse than cheating. By your own admission, you are not married, and thus can not imagine the emotional committment entering into that sacred instiution involves. I can only imagine (thankfully, and reluctantly) the pain breaking that committment through cheating would bring. Yes, the emotional scars for rape are horrendous, but don't discount those created by cheating.

I am in no way shape for form discounting the emotional scars that come from cheating. I fully understand and am aware of the emotional damage that can be caused from it.

At the risk of upsetting you, you weren't married. Walking away is fine in a dating situation. People can talk all day long about the committment involved while dating, and that's all fine, but marriage is something completely different. Marriage is not simply an extension of dating, or it should not be. Dating is a committment, certainly, but marriage is a life-long committment. To do as Rince suggests and simply walk away is erroneous. You have to fight for it as much as you can. If the other person won't fight with you, then you consider dropping it. Dating is convenience, marriage is committment.

Which I understand as well. I'm not trying to stir the pot - just explaining things since assumptions were made about my beliefs without any prior knowledge of my ideals. I understand that marriage is a life long committment. My best friend is dealing with the fact that she made a vow before God to honor her husband and he did the same.

With what Rince suggested, walking away is better than beating the crud out of someone. This is a perfect example of how rules and guidelines should be set before two venture into marriage. I honestly believe that I will do the same as Rince did - suggest that if you cheat, I'm gone and that my future husband should do the same. Cheating is the ultimate betrayal. I fully understand and comprehend that. I never said that it was a minor deal.

[Tarhog]

Braveheart: Heroic

Divorcing your wife because she cheats: Smart

Beating your wife because she cheats: Barbaric

Telling a woman, "I hate to break it to you, but, you're a girl": Chauvinistic

Encouraging people to "introduce" their wife to the "pain train" in certain circumstances: Macho, unprofessional, and disgusting

I've made two promises to my fiancee: I'll never cheat on you, and I'll never hit you. Cheating is terrible, terrible thing to do to someone you love. To betray the most important person in your life is AWFUL.

BUT...you can wash your words with soap and water, and pretty 'em up with creative defenses and explanations (with a little condescension thrown in), but that does not change the fact that you wrote this:

Shocking.

You're being dramatic.

Art's primary point is, if you love something - your life, your country, your wife - you fight for it. You don't appease, cajole, beg, vacillate, make promises - you fight for it. Your wife edges towards a disasterous decision because she's bored, uncertain of your feelings, thinks you're ambivalent, whatever, I think Art's dead-on in his primary point. Do something. Do something that lets her know unequivocally that you ARE her husband, she IS your wife, and that you CARE about whats going on, you care one hell of a lot, and aren't going to accept it, excuse it, or negotiate about it.

And then you figure out what led her to the point she'd almost drive off the cliff with you and the kids in the backseat, and you set about making it right with her. But the two things aren't connected in the way many here are arguing. Because Brave clearly, desperately, undeniably loves his wife, the exact same way he did on their wedding day. Its just been lost, misplaced, derailed somewhere along the way.

He should get his wifes attention, and he should do it as passionately as he can muster. I think what is being said is, be a MAN, not a 'partner'. Divorce, if its inevitable, will be a lot easier to face and accept if you do what you can now. It certainly won't be based on her feeling that you don't care. She'll know you care one way or the other.

As for the issue of physicality, I believe Art is speaking metaphorically there (he'll come right back and tell you he was serious and was quite literal in his meaning). And I'll tell you I don't believe he means it.

Then again, I like soccer.

[CandaceM23]

Tarhog, I'm pissed that you didn't stick up for me and beat Art up for insulting me.

You are no longer my favorite mod.

[Art]

Braveheart: Heroic

Divorcing your wife because she cheats: Smart

Beating your wife because she cheats: Barbaric

Telling a woman, "I hate to break it to you, but, you're a girl": Chauvinistic

Encouraging people to "introduce" their wife to the "pain train" in certain circumstances: Macho, unprofessional, and disgusting

I've made two promises to my fiancee: I'll never cheat on you, and I'll never hit you. Cheating is terrible, terrible thing to do to someone you love. To betray the most important person in your life is AWFUL.

BUT...you can wash your words with soap and water, and pretty 'em up with creative defenses and explanations (with a little condescension thrown in), but that does not change the fact that you wrote this:

Shocking.

Fortunately for you wee boy, I'm not attempting to pretty anything up, defend or explain. Context and reality do a fine job of that for me. You'll find one very unsympathetic person in me when faced with charges that I don't understand how angry you are. I'd care if you proved bright enough and willing enough to be shocked by actual words rather than those you've decided to create.

You apparently feel even the distinction that men and women are, in fact, different creatures as a wrong as the content there was, "Hey, believe what you want, that's cool, but, you're not a guy." That you can't stop focusing on "girl" likely reveals something in your personality as "girl" wasn't the driving point of the sentence. The point was, girls and boys do and view things differently. Period. Sorry you don't get it.

I'm disgusted by the pathetic nature of crybabies like yourself who allow themselves to excuse infidelity and prevent NATURAL response to such betrayal, pretending such a response is beyond the scope of all possibility. It's not. We're not the U.N. Stop or I'll say stop again doesn't work. Eventually you have to say stop, and when it doesn't, DO SOMETHING about it. Indeed, that something may be objectionable to some, less so to others.

But, the something exists as a perfectly valid response to such an action as it does to many other actions. Though, I do find it amusing to read some might find their wife smothering their child and would merely hold them in a gentle bear hug so as not to do harm, while apparently being able to call the police, waiting with this obviously rational woman sedate in your arms.

It's kind of funny watching people avoid what they all know full well they'd do. They'd put the person down and sort the rest out later.

[Tarhog]

Tarhog, I'm pissed that you didn't stick up for me and beat Art up for insulting me.

You are no longer my favorite mod.

Take a number.

I think men and women are genetically pre-disposed to seeing this kind of conflict differently. So I can continue to love Art AND you, because I can see that its the human genome's fault you can't agree

[zoony]

Pestilence quit the band, remember? :cool:

Quit? huh?

quit, tossed the **** out. take your pick. :cool:

That's how I remember it. :cool:

maybe you can put a picture of him half naked in your sig. :laugh:

:rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Be careful Art... Westy's taken a liking to ya :laugh:

....

[Big Weirdo]

What about me Tarhog? Would you ever fight for me?

[Art]

Jumbo--I'm a little late with a reply as I had to go into a meeting, but in your reply to me you raise a totally fair point and one I've attempted to address in my reply to Art above. A few distinctions should be made here. First, I definitely agree that there is no way to anticipate who someone will be in 5, 10 or 20 years down the line--that kind of foresight is impossible; as a corrollary, it's also close to impossible to know whether one or both of the spouses will cheat over the course of the relationship. However, I think it usually is pretty clear, assuming you've engaged in my NSA due diligence, that your spouse will not rape your children or molest your pets, etc.

This leads to the second distinction, to wit, those situations in which I believe one can justify violence in an immediate family. For me, and I think this may be different than Art, I'm really only comfortable with the concept of using force in the child/pet rape situations.

But point taken Jumbo.

Wait a minute. We HIRED you because of your bride and the burro videos, and now you're rejecting bestiality? Poser .