Malapropismic Depository Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 14 minutes ago, Barry.Randolphe said: You always decline in this situation - even if you have nothing in there or anything to hide. Always. They'll threaten you with a dog, whatever....you still say no Thanks I appreciate your opinion. Just a couple concerns. Doesn't it raise their suspicions if you decline, and then they become more aggressive in looking for a reason to do it without my consent, by justifying a warrant ? Same way a suspect declines either a polygraph or any "questioning" at all, it automatically raises him up the suspect list. And they become more intensified to look for a reason to harass you. And if they're crooked, which those do exist, they may not be so ethical in obtaining such warrant, in a car search case. EDIT : Wanted to add to that, another reason to consent, in my mind, is there's more of a chance they let you off the hook for the speeding and just give you a warning. If you decline the search, it seems guaranteed they will give you the citation that they stopped you for. In my case, I consented, not just because I had nothing to hide, but I also thought I might get free from the citation. But I let him search. And he gave me the citation anyway. IN FACT, he didn't even lower the severity level. He claimed I was going 15 mph excessively. In my experience, most will reduce it to a lower speeding charge. But even after I was so cooperative with the search, he still gave me the full 15mph charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 12 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said: Thanks I appreciate your opinion. Just a couple concerns. Doesn't it raise their suspicions if you decline, and then they become more aggressive in looking for a reason to do it without my consent, by justifying a warrant ? Same way a suspect declines either a polygraph or any "questioning" at all, it automatically raises him up the suspect list. And they become more intensified to look for a reason to harass you. And if they're crooked, which those do exist, they may not be so ethical in obtaining such warrant, in a car search case. EDIT : Wanted to add to that, another reason to consent, in my mind, is there's more of a chance they let you off the hook for the speeding and just give you a warning. If you decline the search, it seems guaranteed they will give you the citation that they stopped you for. In my case, I consented, not just because I had nothing to hide, but I also thought I might get free from the citation. But I let him search. And he gave me the citation anyway. IN FACT, he didn't even lower the severity level. He claimed I was going 15 mph excessively. In my experience, most will reduce it to a lower speeding charge. But even after I was so cooperative with the search, he still gave me the full 15mph charge. In strictly legal terms, you can't let yourself get intimidated because you have a constitutional right against self-incrimination, you have a constitutional right against illegal search and seizure. Again, make them go to the work of getting a warrant from a judge. Judges hate being bothered at odd hours for weak-sauce stuff like warrants with no legit probable cause. In PA, I believe you can refuse field tests and breathalyzers (although a penalty may apply to refusing a breathalyzer) but you can ask for blood to be drawn by your Primary Care Physician only. The refusing a polygraph or a breathalyzer "makes you more of a suspect" in practical terms may be true, but in legal terms is irrelevant. They need to prove you did what they say you did with evidence. Real world cops can be intimidating. Esp. if you're not in a favorable location or jurisdiction or your skin color may not be "legally optimal". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chew Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 14 minutes ago, Barry.Randolphe said: You always decline in this situation - even if you have nothing in there or anything to hide. Always. They'll threaten you with a dog, whatever....you still say no Sometimes it doesn't matter. I gave consent to a state trooper before just to get it over with cuz I had somewhere to be. He also told me if I didn't give consent, I'd sit there until he got a warrant. They still called in the DEA Suburban with a drug dog and had 7 cars squad cars on me and searched my car with white gloves on. The cops were rude and condescending, even though I cooperated fully and ended every response with "yes sir/no sir." I feared for my safety so I called my mom and my girlfriend on 3-way (this was before camera phones) to let them know what was happening and that i had nothing on me in case the police framed me. I wish all my ES friends could've been there to see it...when the DEA agent told the state trooper who pulled me over that they didn't find anything in my car. He was SO disappointed, both his face and his body language said it. He was sad that they didn't find any drugs on me. I've got a bunch more stories like that where I was degraded and humiliated by our "heroes in blue," but will save them for another thread. Sorry for the rant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 12 minutes ago, Elessar78 said: In strictly legal terms, you can't let yourself get intimidated because you have a constitutional right against self-incrimination, you have a constitutional right against illegal search and seizure. Again, make them go to the work of getting a warrant from a judge. Judges hate being bothered at odd hours for weak-sauce stuff like warrants with no legit probable cause. In PA, I believe you can refuse field tests and breathalyzers (although a penalty may apply to refusing a breathalyzer) but you can ask for blood to be drawn by your Primary Care Physician only. The refusing a polygraph or a breathalyzer "makes you more of a suspect" in practical terms may be true, but in legal terms is irrelevant. They need to prove you did what they say you did with evidence. Real world cops can be intimidating. Esp. if you're not in a favorable location or jurisdiction or your skin color may not be "legally optimal". Thanks that makes sense I'm still curious about the other factor that I added to my post. Not sure if you saw it. If the dude is going to write a phantom ticket for speeding, isn't it easy to conceive of him wanting to come up with yet another phantom ticket to pile on, if you anger him by not consenting ? Then as I mentioned, this also was my theory - Decline, and you're guaranteed to at least get the citation he stopped you for. Consent, and you have a chance that he either reduces the charge or drops it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 46 minutes ago, Barry.Randolphe said: You always decline in this situation - even if you have nothing in there or anything to hide. Always. They'll threaten you with a dog, whatever....you still say no I thought about giving this advice also. But I wasn't sure what color @Malapropismic Depository is. Sadly, that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 26 minutes ago, Elessar78 said: In strictly legal terms, you can't let yourself get intimidated because you have a constitutional right against self-incrimination, you have a constitutional right against illegal search and seizure. Again, make them go to the work of getting a warrant from a judge. Judges hate being bothered at odd hours for weak-sauce stuff like warrants with no legit probable cause. In PA, I believe you can refuse field tests and breathalyzers (although a penalty may apply to refusing a breathalyzer) but you can ask for blood to be drawn by your Primary Care Physician only. The refusing a polygraph or a breathalyzer "makes you more of a suspect" in practical terms may be true, but in legal terms is irrelevant. They need to prove you did what they say you did with evidence. Real world cops can be intimidating. Esp. if you're not in a favorable location or jurisdiction or your skin color may not be "legally optimal". Agreed. I've had similar stories told to me by various people of color, and they were willing to let far too much slide because of fear of retaliation. We need to stop this and hold these people accountable for abusing their power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 **** Cancer beat that thing ALEX TREBEK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 14 minutes ago, ixcuincle said: **** Cancer beat that thing ALEX TREBEK Also got a text earlier from a friend, who's mother is on her deathbed due to lung cancer. Of course I had my own ordeal with my dad. These are tough times, indeed. I hope he beats the living **** out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 19 hours ago, PleaseBlitz said: Taught my first law school class tonight as a guest lecturer. I was in that same class 5 1/2 years ago. Surreal. Wait until they invite you to an advisory board. I remember going to my first one as a student to take notes for our IT club newsletter. Few years later I ask why our suggestions aren't being written down so we can follow up on them, feels good when you asked to help on that kinda level, you know its really helping others who going in same shoes as you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry.Randolphe Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 1 hour ago, Malapropismic Depository said: Thanks I appreciate your opinion Elessar's post is pretty much what I was going to say. I have lots of law enforcement family and friends - that was the advice given to me when I got my license. I've never had that question asked of me when I've been pulled over, so I fully get the intimidation factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 7 minutes ago, Barry.Randolphe said: Elessar's post is pretty much what I was going to say. I have lots of law enforcement family and friends - that was the advice given to me when I got my license. I've never had that question asked of me when I've been pulled over, so I fully get the intimidation factor. Is it true that it you plead Not Guilty, and they find you guilty, that they typically add on additional court costs that are even heavier than the original cost ? Just wondering if pleading Not Guilty is high risk of making matters worse, if you don't have strong, concrete evidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry.Randolphe Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 1 minute ago, Malapropismic Depository said: Is it true that it you plead Not Guilty, and they find you guilty, that they typically add on additional court costs that are even heavier than the original cost ? Just wondering if pleading Not Guilty is high risk of making matters worse, if you don't have strong, concrete evidence I've heard that before.....mostly because the judge gets pissed you wasted the court's time. I'm sure a lawyer on the board has more experience with this though. The best case of taking something to court is the officer not showing up, therefore your ticket gets thrown out. I've done that before and prepared to argue my case...but I was called up early before the officer got there and mine got thrown out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 4 minutes ago, Barry.Randolphe said: I've heard that before.....mostly because the judge gets pissed you wasted the court's time. I'm sure a lawyer on the board has more experience with this though. The best case of taking something to court is the officer not showing up, therefore your ticket gets thrown out. I've done that before and prepared to argue my case...but I was called up early before the officer got there and mine got thrown out. This squad car had 2 officers. So maybe that means there's a 50% less chance of it happening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 1 hour ago, Chew said: Sometimes it doesn't matter. I gave consent to a state trooper before just to get it over with cuz I had somewhere to be. He also told me if I didn't give consent, I'd sit there until he got a warrant. They still called in the DEA Suburban with a drug dog and had 7 cars squad cars on me and searched my car with white gloves on. The cops were rude and condescending, even though I cooperated fully and ended every response with "yes sir/no sir." I feared for my safety so I called my mom and my girlfriend on 3-way (this was before camera phones) to let them know what was happening and that i had nothing on me in case the police framed me. I wish all my ES friends could've been there to see it...when the DEA agent told the state trooper who pulled me over that they didn't find anything in my car. He was SO disappointed, both his face and his body language said it. He was sad that they didn't find any drugs on me. I've got a bunch more stories like that where I was degraded and humiliated by our "heroes in blue," but will save them for another thread. Sorry for the rant. Trooper:“Can I at least sprinkle some crack on him??” DEA: No. *shoulders drop, sad face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 14 minutes ago, Barry.Randolphe said: I've heard that before.....mostly because the judge gets pissed you wasted the court's time. I'm sure a lawyer on the board has more experience with this though. The best case of taking something to court is the officer not showing up, therefore your ticket gets thrown out. I've done that before and prepared to argue my case...but I was called up early before the officer got there and mine got thrown out. You just have to weigh it. Admitting guilt is a one-way Street. There’s no going back. Also at a traffic stop the moment they talk to you they are gathering evidence for your conviction. ”Do you know why I pulled you over?” ”Do you know how fast you were going?” ”Have you have anything to drink tonight?” the irony is cops do get annoyed when you get “lawyerly”. So routine stops can become long and problematic if you stand up for yourself. I think respectful but don’t give them anything is the way to go. “Officer, I respectfully decline to give you permission to search my vehicle.” also never hurts to do research in advance and practice. Also never hurts to have a lawyer on speed dial-in case you really need one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Freaking hate back muscle pulls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Ahhh....a simpler time. I dont care about your thoughts on the politics, the man was great to listen to. Here is a good group of his funny moments (except for the very last one, that one was depressing). https://youtu.be/NajhG8PpC2A And how the hell to you properly post YouTube videos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 11 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: And how the hell to you properly post YouTube videos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 @Riggo-toni. Thanks but you didn't really explain HOW to do that..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chew Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Not sure how new this news is... But i just saw Alex Trebek has Stage 4 pancreatic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 45 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: @Riggo-toni. Thanks but you didn't really explain HOW to do that..... You're right, my apologies. I just copied and pasted the url at the top of the browser. Usually I just hit the share button and select Copy Link, but that option did not come up for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Do Itch Big Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 iontop! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Riggo-toni said: You're right, my apologies. I just copied and pasted the url at the top of the browser. Usually I just hit the share button and select Copy Link, but that option did not come up for some reason. Crap. That's what I did. 😔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 After you paste the link in the ES box, there's a prompt that pops up asking if you want to just show link. If you accidentally hit that, then just the link rather than the embedded video shows up. When I post pics and vids, I usually hit the return key right after pasting and wait to see if the image appears before hitting the Submit Reply button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IONTOP Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 7 hours ago, Mr. Sinister said: Yooooooo, whatup, ION. Good to see you again, homie. RTT hasn't quite been the same without you. Miss you too... If I say antyhing else I'l miaapwll ir 1 hour ago, Dr. Do Itch Big said: iontop! The **** did I do? - McNulty I still miss Blake, but glad he got to go before everoyne pronounced his name Bh-lakke-kake- eee But it'd be less annoying to him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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