Post Game Apathy Thread: Skins lose 2nd half of game 7-3

[Destino]

Jay turtled up in the second half, which I think is his instinctual preference as a coach.  It’s who he is and he’s going to do this whenever he has a large lead in the second half.  Charitably I could say he coached like he knew he had a great defense, but t don’t believe that.

 

Having said that Jay made his choice, it worked, and we won.  That’s good enough for me.  

[hail2skins]

I think the defense looked very good against a mediocre QB in Bradford and looked decent against two solid QBs in Luck and Rodgers (who is stellar). In today's NFL, grading a defense is very relative, considering how much the rules have been slanted in favor of the offense. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

10 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Are you too assuming the Packers win if they catch those catches?  I don't think so, they would've dropped other passes and we were dropping passes despite being the same weather.  We beat them, Packers did not play as well as they did, they weren't the better team.

 

I want them to more aggressive later into the game, too, but this team is different then last year.  They are 7th in rushing and 1st in defense yards allowed.  That's a recipe for ending games.  I have my feeling on when to start doing that, but I don't blame him.

No, I’m assuming if the packers played an average game for them offensively, ie: catching the balls that hit them in the hands, it’s a much tighter game at the end.  

 

Im the end, they didn’t, and that’s good for us.  But those drops weren’t due to tight coverage, or aggressive defense, they just dropped them.  I’ll take a little luck but I’m not going to overvalue a defense that got some big breaks at critical spots today.  They played well, good effort.  But not flawless and not dominant.  

 

I want ant to see them come out and break tendency with the lead.

 

i promise you this:  if they gave a 18 point lead against Brees in the dome, 3 second half points will not be enough.  

 

Brees inside is at least as dangerous as Rodgers, maybe more so.... regardless of how good your defense is, unless you’re the 85 bears.  Which we’re not.  At least not yet.

[Renegade7]

1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Brees inside is at least as dangerous as Rodgers, maybe more so.... regardless of how good your defense is, unless you’re the 85 bears.  Which we’re not.  At least not yet.

I don't think we know what we are yet.  I mean, yes or no, if Packers catch those passes they win today?  Is that how you're walking away from this one?  It sounds like we are going on his history of staying conservative even when teams come back.  We'll see if he learns his lesson in 2 weeks, he didn't need to in this game or against Arizona, that's a good sign for the whole team, regardless of what we think about Jay. It worked, this team is better then last year.

 

No, I do not believe even if they catch those passes Packers win.  None of them were scoring plays, most weren't even in the Redzone, Packers only made it to the Redzone twice those whole game.

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

I don't think we know what we are yet.  I mean, yes or no, if Packers catch those passes they win today?  Is that how you're walking away from this one?  It sounds like we are going on his history of staying conservative even when teams come back.  We'll see if he learns his lesson in 2 weeks, he didn't need to in this game or against Arizona, that's a good sign for the whole team, regardless of what we think about Jay. It worked, this team is better then last year.

 

No, I do not believe even if they catch those passes Packers win.  None of them were scoring plays, most weren't even in the Redzone, Packers only made it to the Redzone twice those whole game.

I didn’t say win, I said it’s closer. 

 

Maybe not.  I’m taking the entire season, they had a great game against the worst offense in the league, they were only “ok” against the colts, and they were good but got help today.

 

I rate them as good and improving.  But not dominant.  

 

And i I wouldn’t trust them to hold a lead.  It worked today, but I think it’s a matter of time before it doesn’t work.

 

My gripe from today though isn’t the defense.  It’s the offense which has 0 first downs or pass yards in the 3rd quarter minus a horrendous penalty.

 

Im just saying, that’s a problem.  Help the defense put by not running on every first down, being creative, and hang onto the ball. 

[Renegade7]

Just now, Voice_of_Reason said:

I didn’t say win, I said it’s closer. 

 

Maybe not.  I’m taking the entire season, they had a great game against the worst offense in the league, they were only “ok” against the colts, and they were good but got help today.

 

I rate them as good and improving.  But not dominant.  

 

And i I wouldn’t trust them to hold a lead.  It worked today, but I think it’s a matter of time before it doesn’t work.

 

My gripe from today though isn’t the defense.  It’s the offense which has 0 first downs or pass yards in the 3rd quarter minus a horrendous penalty.

 

Im just saying, that’s a problem.  Help the defense put by not running on every first down, being creative, and hang onto the ball. 

 

That's all I ask, I agree with everything else you said already.  Do you think its playcalling?  Because I do, and that's a choice.

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

That's all I ask, I agree with everything else you said already.  Do you think its playcalling?  Because I do, and that's a choice.

I think it’s 100% play calling. And it’s a choice.  It worked today. But it’s a trend and he hasn’t learned from his mistakes.  Which is worrisome.

[Renegade7]

Just now, Voice_of_Reason said:

I think it’s 100% play calling. And it’s a choice.  It worked today. But it’s a trend and he hasn’t learned from his mistakes.  Which is worrisome.

More then fair.

[mistertim]

23 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

I don't think we know what we are yet.  I mean, yes or no, if Packers catch those passes they win today?  Is that how you're walking away from this one?  It sounds like we are going on his history of staying conservative even when teams come back.  We'll see if he learns his lesson in 2 weeks, he didn't need to in this game or against Arizona, that's a good sign for the whole team, regardless of what we think about Jay. It worked, this team is better then last year.

 

No, I do not believe even if they catch those passes Packers win.  None of them were scoring plays, most weren't even in the Redzone, Packers only made it to the Redzone twice those whole game.

 

I think one thing to remember about those drops is that when they happened, we weren't smothering the Packers offense...they were basically moving the ball at will against us from their first drive of the second half. That's one of the reasons I believe that those drives could easily have ended up as scoring drives without those backbreaking drops at the worst times. Obviously that's no guarantee or anything but let's be honest...our defense was looking pretty shabby at that point and Rodgers was picking us apart. The defense redeemed themselves with some well timed plays later but at that point the Packers were having their way with them.

[Renegade7]

25 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I think one thing to remember about those drops is that when they happened, we weren't smothering the Packers offense...they were basically moving the ball at will against us from their first drive of the second half. That's one of the reasons I believe that those drives could easily have ended up as scoring drives without those backbreaking drops at the worst times. Obviously that's no guarantee or anything but let's be honest...our defense was looking pretty shabby at that point and Rodgers was picking us apart. The defense redeemed themselves with some well timed plays later but at that point the Packers were having their way with them.

We're talking about what 3 drops in an entire half of football where we held them to 7 points?  No, they were not having their way with us, otherwise they would've been scoring, forget the drops.  I've seen them do what they want us against us before, that was nothing like that.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I agree...if the Packers had played a perfect game with no mistakes, they could have made it close.

[mistertim]

24 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

We're talking about what 3 drops in an entire half of football where we held them to 7?  No, they were not having their way with us, otherwise they would've been scoring, forget the drops.  I've seen them do what they want us against us before, that was nothing like that.

 

The two drops were in the two subsequent drives after they shredded us on a 15 play TD drive and they were looking decent on both of those drives until the incompletions so that's why I'm saying that their offense was playing us well when those happened, and they were. I'm not saying they would have won the game without those drops, but I have a feeling that if their offense had kept humming and our defense had kept letting them get chunks of yards that I wouldn't have been surprised if at least one of those would have ended up as a scoring drive and at the very least it would have been a much closer game.

[hail2skins]

4 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

The two drops were in the two subsequent drives after they shredded us on a 15 play TD drive and they were looking decent on both of those drives until the incompletions so that's why I'm saying that their offense was playing us well when those happened, and they were. I'm not saying they would have won the game without those drops, but I have a feeling that if their offense had kept humming and our defense had kept letting them get chunks of yards that I wouldn't have been surprised if at least one of those would have ended up as a scoring drive and at the very least it would have been a much closer game.

Exactly....the drives after the TD were:

 

4th down drop by Cobb at the Skins 41

 

Deep pass dropped at around midfield by Kendricks

 

Incomplete pass around midfield. Pass intended for Montgomery, can't remember what happened there. Packers got called for holding on the play anyway, and I was sort of surprised that GB decided not to go for it on 4th and 5 after we had declined the penalty and ball at midfield, still down two scores with 7 left

 

Fumble which we recovered around the Packers 40-45, which was a nice strip by Skins

[Califan007 The Constipated]

21 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

The two drops were in the two subsequent drives after they shredded us on a 15 play TD drive and they were looking decent on both of those drives until the incompletions so that's why I'm saying that their offense was playing us well when those happened, and they were.

 

 

On the 1st drive after their TD:

 

• 1-10-GB 32  - 17 yard completion
• 1-10-GB 49  - 1 yard run
• 2-9 -GB 49   - PENALTY False Start
• 2-14-GB 45  - -4 yard sack (Payne)
• 3-18-GB 41 - 16 yard completion
• 4-2 WAS 43 - Incompletion

Total Yards = 26

 

2nd drive after their TD:

 

• 1-10-GB 16 - PENALTY Offensive Holding
• 1-18-GB 8 - Incompletion
• 2-18-GB 8 - 4 yard completion
• 3-14-GB 12 - 14 yd completion, and PENALTY Offensive Holding
• 3-10-GB 16 - Incompletion
• 4-10-GB 16 - Punt
• Total yards = 10

[Renegade7]

17 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

The two drops were in the two subsequent drives after they shredded us on a 15 play TD drive and they were looking decent on both of those drives until the incompletions so that's why I'm saying that their offense was playing us well when those happened, and they were. I'm not saying they would have won the game without those drops, but I have a feeling that if their offense had kept humming and our defense had kept letting them get chunks of yards that I wouldn't have been surprised if at least one of those would have ended up as a scoring drive and at the very least it would have been a much closer game.

 

Please, how many total drives they have in second half?  How many passing yards did they have?  Who cares if its closer if we win?

[Thinking Skins]

 

 

 

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Please, how many total drives they have in second half?  How many passing yards did they have?  Who cares if its closer if we win?

 

I couldn't care less if it was closer if we won this time; we did win and I'm stoked about that. Again, my issue is that this pattern of Gruden's of turtling once he has a lead has bitten us in the past and will again IMO. I just think this game was closer to possibly shifting than some people realize based on the score and that when we face another good team again (aka the Saints after the bye) we likely won't be able to get away with playing offense for only one half and hoping that our defense can hold a potential lead. 

[goskins10]

2 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

The two drops were in the two subsequent drives after they shredded us on a 15 play TD drive and they were looking decent on both of those drives until the incompletions so that's why I'm saying that their offense was playing us well when those happened, and they were. I'm not saying they would have won the game without those drops, but I have a feeling that if their offense had kept humming and our defense had kept letting them get chunks of yards that I wouldn't have been surprised if at least one of those would have ended up as a scoring drive and at the very least it would have been a much closer game.

 

When you have a 21+ pt lead you make people drive on you like that. Keep it all in front of you. Make them go a long way with many plays. They have to be virtually perfect. On that one drive they were. But they also shortened the game. Exactly what you want. Against AZ it was the same thing. They had one long drive where they were perfect. Ok, they earned that. But the other drives they made mistakes. The odds are in your favor that they will not perfect. So while people act like we were "lucky", in facts it's playing the odds. It's just not that easy to drive 15 plays for a score. Especially since GB generally thrives on the big play. That's how you beat. We gave up one. That was it. 

 

When we beat Denver in the SB, we scored the famous 35 pts in the 2nd Q. What did we score the second half? Don't get me wrong. I would like to see us be a little more aggressive coming out of the half and maybe wait till the 4th Q to slow it down. But getting conservative also reduces errors. But I liek this recipe of getting a good lead and making them come after us. 

 

Did you see the graphic of when a Jay Gruden team gets a 7-0 lead? Pretty damn good actually. I think the problem is we remember some of the bad comebacks others have had, including before Jay so we are all snake bit. Fact is when you get up by 21 pts you should win and you should win without slinging it around potentially giving them an easy instant play or two to get them back in the game. 

 

 

[fearlessNelms]

We played well in the first half to build the lead, but the second half was more of GB shooting themselves in the foot than us doing anything to hold the lead. The dropped 4th & 2, the converted 3rd & 14 that was called back because of holding & of course the dropped long ball down the sideline on the subsequent play following the holding, were all huge plays in us winning. GB also had some other big penalties that helped us out. Moreau's strip of Cobb was obviously a huge play and it was nice to see someone make a play when we needed one badly.

 

Whatever the case, it was a nice, needed win. And since it's usually us that is shooting ourselves in the behind with mistakes & penalties to cost us games, I'm certainly not going to apologize to anyone for yesterday's win. With the bye next week, all is well with the Skins for at least the next two weeks.

[Commander -JB-]

Could you imagine how dominant this defense could be if Kerrigan didn’t suddenly suck?? He generates zero pressure anymore.  If our OLB could get to the QB this pass rush could be unstoppable with the big boys in the middle.

[skins island connection]

4 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

When you have a 21+ pt lead you make people drive on you like that. Keep it all in front of you. Make them go a long way with many plays. They have to be virtually perfect. On that one drive they were. But they also shortened the game. Exactly what you want. Against AZ it was the same thing. They had one long drive where they were perfect. Ok, they earned that. But the other drives they made mistakes. The odds are in your favor that they will not perfect. So while people act like we were "lucky", in facts it's playing the odds. It's just not that easy to drive 15 plays for a score. Especially since GB generally thrives on the big play. That's how you beat. We gave up one. That was it. 

 

When we beat Denver in the SB, we scored the famous 35 pts in the 2nd Q. What did we score the second half? Don't get me wrong. I would like to see us be a little more aggressive coming out of the half and maybe wait till the 4th Q to slow it down. But getting conservative also reduces errors. But I liek this recipe of getting a good lead and making them come after us. 

 

Did you see the graphic of when a Jay Gruden team gets a 7-0 lead? Pretty damn good actually. I think the problem is we remember some of the bad comebacks others have had, including before Jay so we are all snake bit. Fact is when you get up by 21 pts you should win and you should win without slinging it around potentially giving them an easy instant play or two to get them back in the game. 

 

 

 

Well, I will admit that at times Gibbs would go the conservative route with a nice lead at halftime. It drove me nuts because I always wanted to see a complete blow-out but he usually won.

 

* FYI, in SB XXII they didn't go conservative until after Williams threw the 50 yd bomb that was picked off near the end zone early in the 3rd qtr. But after that it was a 'wait and see' thing with Gibbs; if Elway started a comeback Gibbs would have turned to page 2.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

3 hours ago, -JB- said:

Could you imagine how dominant this defense could be if Kerrigan didn’t suddenly suck?? He generates zero pressure anymore.  If our OLB could get to the QB this pass rush could be unstoppable with the big boys in the middle.

 

Hes been near invisible but did get some holding calls yesterday.

[Zguy28]

13 hours ago, Vanguard said:

it's all Gruden.  He really bugs me.  He looks so unconfident on the sideline.  He doesn't know how to make halftime adjustments.  He needs to hire somebody to help him specifically with just that.

This. It's so flipping obvious. The other team makes halftime adjustments and he doesn't. As a coach, you have to be flexible enough to throw away your gameplan in the second half if it doesn't work. Some guys just can't handle that type of situation and get vapor locked. I can't imagine what its like at the pro level.

[Burgold]

13 hours ago, Vanguard said:

it's all Gruden.  He really bugs me.  He looks so unconfident on the sideline.  He doesn't know how to make halftime adjustments.  He needs to hire somebody to help him specifically with just that.

The irony of this statement is that almost all the complaints seem to revolve around the idea that Gruden DID make half time adjustments. He adjusted into hyper-conservative mode out of balanced aggressive play calling mode.

 

Now, I would have liked to see a little more offensive playing calling oomph too, but I also saw that every time the offense started to roll in the second half we seemed to get flagged. Hyper conservatism and 1st and 20 don't mix.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

As someone that chases every shot of Redskins prosperity with reality, even I find this thread to be a bit ridiculous.