Who should be Starting RB in 2018??? (Public Poll)

[SWFLSkins]

 

[Mr.Will]

Darkwa ain’t terrible,he ain’t Guice but as soon as he went down-I knew we’d end up with another teams scrap pieces..but he’ll have a better line here to run behind than what he had with the Gnats..might be serviceable at least?????????

[SWFLSkins]

 

[JoggingGod]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

Our elite non-qb players make between 14 and 15 mill a year.  That's what I'd offer Bell, what he wants doesn't mean that's what he gets.  I don't know if NFL is ready to set that kinda precident for elite RB (17), steelers made it clear they wont. It'll be stuff like guarenteed money that will make difference, which we are still kings at

I just think signing a RB in free agency is an awful idea because we have a lot of players we need to lock up at more vital positions. I think giving up on Guice is a terrible idea too considering that he’s not even 22.

[Renegade7]

25 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

I just think signing a RB in free agency is an awful idea because we have a lot of players we need to lock up at more vital positions. I think giving up on Guice is a terrible idea too considering that he’s not even 22.

You keep saying that, but show me the math that shows we can't if you really feel that way.  Like I said, if we do nothing and Guice gets hurt again, we're having this exact same conversation next year.  What's your back up plan if your wrong?

[JoggingGod]

27 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

You keep saying that, but show me the math that shows we can't if you really feel that way.  Like I said, if we do nothing and Guice gets hurt again, we're having this exact same conversation next year.  What's your back up plan if your wrong?

You can say that for every single position. That doesn’t mean you shell out money for a player you don’t need. Signing Bell means we lose some of our core and we have a 2nd rounder rotting on the bench for no reason.

[Malapropismic Depository]

7 hours ago, volsmet said:

 

 

suh-MAH-jay

 

So, if Perine becomes a favorite of Jay's, just like WR "Ryan Gruden" was, do we refer to Perine as "Suh-mah-JAY Gruden" ?

[Renegade7]

11 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

You can say that for every single position. That doesn’t mean you shell out money for a player you don’t need. Signing Bell means we lose some of our core and we have a 2nd rounder rotting on the bench for no reason.

Show me the numbers, dude. Guice won't rot on the bench, but enough of the words show me the numbers that we can't do it.

[Malapropismic Depository]

1 hour ago, SWFLSkins said:

 

 

A few things, regarding "Rob Kelley has never did this."

 

1. This was against the 32nd ranked rushing defense, so that takes away much of the luster. Rob Kelley also never had the great privilege of playing against the Redskin rushing defense. Would be interesting to see the numbers he'd put up, if he could.

2. Rob Kelley does have a 66 yard run.

3. Rob Kelley actually looks faster than this guy. Put this video next to Kelley's 66 yard run, and I think that will be clear.

 

[JoggingGod]

7 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Show me the numbers, dude. Guice won't rot on the bench, but enough of the words show me the numbers that we can't do it.

What numbers? I told you Bell will be the highest paid RB in football. That is money that could go to Preston Smith or Scherff or one of our d-lineman down the line. 

[TheShredder]

You've got to bring in options at RB but you don't necessarily have to bring in a declining player.  If they bring in AP, CJ, or JC, what do they get?  It's all downside.  If you've got a current roster that serviceable with upside, then they'll bring in some guys to take snaps to fill the void over the next 2 preseason games. When some upside players get released, they'll bring those guys in.  There's no reason to take on any declining players. I don't see them doing that.

[Skinsinparadise]

Yeah I've been on about Darkwa of late as the best option in FA.  He had better than 4 yards YPA last year, apparently he was one of the 10 RBs as to facing stacked boxes.  He looked like Walter Payton against us last year.

 

I don't think he's great but I'd EASILY take him over Robert Kelley.

 

 

Orleans Darkwa has been much better than most New York Giants and NFL fans realize since taking over as the team's starting running back in Week 5.

For starters, Darkwa leads the NFL in yards after contact per carry since Week 5, according to Pro Football Focus' stats. In other words, Darkwa has been the most difficult running back to bring down on first contact since he took over the lead role. Darkwa is also averaging an insane 5.1 yards per carry, with 415 rushing yards on 81 carries. Darkwa continues to make big plays in the running game as well -- he has racked up eight rushing attempts of at least 20 yards on the season.

Darkwa is also one of the NFL's leading rushers in the fewest negative rushes percentage on at least 75 carries. In other words, Darkwa almost always falls forward for positive yardage.

View image on Twitter

 

Jeremy Fowler

 

✔@JFowlerESPN

 

 

League leaders in least negative rushes, minimum 75 attempts (via @ESPNStatsInfo)

11:01 PM - Nov 15, 2017

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Darkwa's production has not gone unnoticed by Giants offensive coordinator Mike Sullivan.

“Yeah, Orleans is a tough competitor, “Sullivan said to reporters on Thursday. “He hits the hole hard. He’s done a good job in recent weeks at breaking some of those arm tackles or some of those tackles where the defender is coming off a block or in the process of being blocked and instances in the past. You can look at games where – and not just our games, but throughout the league – where the ball carrier goes down or they stumble. He’s been able to be very strong through the hole and he presses the hole well, so excited about the things he’s been doing and hopefully he can keep it up for us.”

 

https://247sports.com/nfl/new-york-giants/Bolt/Orleans-Darkwa-New-York-Giants-RB-has-incredible-stats-as-starter-110589779/

[Skinsinparadise]

Greg Johnson‏ @gregp_j

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Greg Johnson Retweeted Ian Rapoport

Darkwa was underrated last season. Had the 5th-highest breakaway percentage (runs of 15+ yards) among all running backs. Consistently produced with opportunity despite a bad offensive line.

 

 

Greg Johnson added,

Ian RapoportVerified account @RapSheet

The #Patriots are taking a look at one of the sleepers of the free agent class: #Giants RB Orleans Darkwa is visiting New England today, source said. Would be an intriguing addition, especially after Dion Lewis left in free agency.

 

1 hour ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

A few things, regarding "Rob Kelley has never did this."

 

1. This was against the 32nd ranked rushing defense, so that takes away much of the luster. Rob Kelley also never had the great privilege of playing against the Redskin rushing defense. Would be interesting to see the numbers he'd put up, if he could.

2. Rob Kelley does have a 66 yard run.

3. Rob Kelley actually looks faster than this guy. Put this video next to Kelley's 66 yard run, and I think that will be clear.

 

 

Robert Kelley with  4.68 40 time.

http://www.draftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=109360&draftyear=2016&genpos=RB

 

https://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2014/11/orleans_darkwa_5_things_to_know_about_the_giants_new_running_back.html

1. Darkwa Can Run Fast
Despite not receiving an invite to the NFL Combine earlier this year, he was able to showcase his speed at Tulane's Pro Day. He ran the 40-yard dash in 4.46 seconds, an especially solid time for a back who stands 5-11, 212.

"A lot of teams didn't expect me to run as fast as I ran so they are praising that," Darkwa told the New Orleans Times-Picayune before the draft, per the Palm Beach Post. "I've talked to specifically some teams' running back coach and they have gotten a chance to look at my film and they've become impressed with how I can do it all as far as pass blocking."

[Malapropismic Depository]

Here's another thing about Rob Kelley

He was 4th in the league in Yards after Contact, with 2.2.

Not trying to promote him as the greatest thing, but he's certainly far from the garbage that many portray him as.

[JSSkinz]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Robert Kelley with  4.68 40 time.

http://www.draftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=109360&draftyear=2016&genpos=RB

 

https://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2014/11/orleans_darkwa_5_things_to_know_about_the_giants_new_running_back.html

1. Darkwa Can Run Fast
Despite not receiving an invite to the NFL Combine earlier this year, he was able to showcase his speed at Tulane's Pro Day. He ran the 40-yard dash in 4.46 seconds, an especially solid time for a back who stands 5-11, 212.

"A lot of teams didn't expect me to run as fast as I ran so they are praising that," Darkwa told the New Orleans Times-Picayune before the draft, per the Palm Beach Post. "I've talked to specifically some teams' running back coach and they have gotten a chance to look at my film and they've become impressed with how I can do it all as far as pass blocking."

 

This is your year SIP, first Guice and now Darkwa, LOL.

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, JoggingGod said:

What numbers? I told you Bell will be the highest paid RB in football. That is money that could go to Preston Smith or Scherff or one of our d-lineman down the line. 

Fine, if you don't want to take two seconds to do your own research, I'll do it for you.

 

2019 offseason we'll have $16 million in cap space:

 

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/washington-redskins/

 

Below is the list of free agents that offseason:

 

https://overthecap.com/free-agency/washington-redskins/

 

The only two players that really matter to me are Preston Smith and Colt McCoy.  If there's someone else you think we just absolutely cannot let leave, please explain why and how much you'd pay them.

 

If we cut Vernon Davis and Stacy McGee, that's and extra $7 million in cap space, which brings our number to $23 million in cap space.  If we're serious about getting Bell, I'd trade CT for a draft pick (what we get really will depend on how healthy he stays, I'm already against resigning him since he can't stay healthy).  That's an extra $3 million, so now the number is up to $26 million.  It also allows Guice, if healthy, to be the supplemental back to Bell instead of the "where do we put him" guy.

 

You keep saying we have to resign Preston Smith, but the question is for how much?  He's never had more then 8 sacks in a season, so unless he gets double digit sacks, I'm not giving him Kerrigan money, which is $13 million a year.  We also have to be careful with overpaying him versus his production, because if he gets 8 sacks again or less, I'm not giving him more then Reed and Zach Brown (who are around $9 million).  If he does get double-digit sacks, that's a difference conversation, because I don't want to give him more then Kerrigan because I don't believe he's better then Kerrigan. For the sake of this conversation, lets give him $9 million, but be prepared for other suitors.  If he hits free agency, you can forget it, he's going to get overpaid and I wouldn't match it unless he goes off whether we go after Bell or not. 

 

BTW, I'm letting Ty Nsyke leave (since we have Christian) and already prepared to do the same with Crowder because its looking like Quinn is going to get punt return duties (we can also draft another slot receiver).  I'm not overpaying a slot receiver if he's not playing special teams. So say Preston is back for $9 million, we're now down to $17 million in cap space.  I've said $14-$15 million offer to Bell and just kill him with guaranteed money up front to compete with other teams and get his cap hit to something like $14 million the first year.  What we need to do is get him to buy into the money we can guarantee total and up front so we can get that first year number down to something like $13 million.  That will leave us with $4 million in cap space. I'd offer Colt a similar contract to what we gave him that was under $1 million the first year, and to expire same year as Alex Smith.  Now we're down to $3 million and talking draft picks and top 51.  There's really no telling how that will shape out, but I want that first pick to be LG and to replace Hopkins with competition or a draft pick (cutting Hopkins would save us $2 million in cap space).

 

So that's ideal scenario for 2019.  What could easily happen is Preston Smith goes off and we have to decide how much we want to give him versus letting him walk and replacing him with a draft pick.  If he leaves, getting Bell in here next season will be easy, but I'd stick as close to what I mentioned as we can.  I think Smith is going to leave anyway because Bruce is going to get caught between paying elite talent (which even as shrewd as he is he's not afraid to do via Alex Smith and Josh Norman) and the reality that no matter what someone is going to offer more. 

 

There's really too many moving parts for me to lay out what I think will happen in 2020 offseason. What I do know is if we do nothing at all nor what I mentioned, right now we'll have $50 million in cap space in 2020:

 

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/washington-redskins/

 

These the notable free agents in 2020 and their 2019 salary (that I haven't already gotten off the team in my scenario):

 

https://overthecap.com/free-agency/washington-redskins/

 

Brandon Scherff - $12 million

DJ Swearinger - $5 million

Josh Doctson - $3 million

Mason Foster - $2 million

Matt Ionnidas - $700K

 

So what Bruce and Doug have done is set this team up to give people team friendly deals and avoid cap hell.  We have no idea how these guys are going to play over the next two years, will they stay healthy, will other more important needs come up, or will we end up in a situation where we'd have to overpay someone to keep them.  But fitting Bell into this is NOT impossible.  If someone wants to give Bell $17 million a year, they can knock themselves out. But if you're going to tell me that adding him will cause us to lose other players, show me the numbers and why since I've taken the effort to show you other wise.  Stop parroting the same thing over and over again, I heard you the first 17 times and every time I come with additional takes, you've come at me with insults.  Not cool.

 

22 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Here's another thing about Rob Kelley

He was 4th in the league in Yards after Contact, with 2.2.

Not trying to promote him as the greatest thing, but he's certainly far from the garbage that many portray him as.

I have no idea how he has that number, you can count every time he runs and not see him get an extra two yards out of it last year and this year.  What year was that stat from?

[Skinsinparadise]

28 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

This is your year SIP, first Guice and now Darkwa, LOL.

 

Lol, man I was the Richardson guy on the FA thread, that happened.  As far as I recall I was the first guy to mention Payne on the draft thread -- though ironically I fell for two players ultimately over him so I didn't love the pick at all but liking what I see so far from the dude.  I was a big Guice guy from the Fall of last year.  So maybe if I start demanding Darkwa the FO will oblige.  Hey I was one of dudes whining about the Scandrick signing -- and they release him.

 

So Bruce I know you are reading this thread for ideas.   Sign Darkwa -- he's better than Kelley.  Maybe consider DRC, too for depth in the secondary.   and I'll lay off a little of my criticism of you in other threads. 

[Skinsinparadise]

22 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Here's another thing about Rob Kelley

He was 4th in the league in Yards after Contact, with 2.2.

Not trying to promote him as the greatest thing, but he's certainly far from the garbage that many portray him as.

 

I don't think Kelley is garbage but I don't think he's a legit starting RB.  He's a tough runner.  He's apparently good at pass protection and ball security.  But I don't think he has the vision, explosion and pass catching skills to put any fear in a defense. 

 

Last year he had one big game.  The one against the Rams.  

 

Aside from that game his YPA per game:

3.3, 2.3, 2.4, 1.3, 2.5, 3.1.

 

So far in this preseason

1.2, 2.4

 

[Malapropismic Depository]

12 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

I have no idea how he has that number, you can count every time he runs and not see him get an extra two yards out of it.  What year was that stat from?

 

I remember hearing it, and I looked it up to see if I could re-verify it. What I found was, while not exactly the same, it was very close to those numbers, and very good.

This was in 2016 :

 

"He averaged 2.17 after contact, the latter of which was ninth best at the position."

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/2575408/rob-kelley

 

[JSSkinz]

I'll take what we can get, from what I remember Darkwa is durable and that seems to be our biggest issue with our entire offense, we need players who can stay in the game after being tackled.

[Commander Wolffe]

Given the recent injuries and our 3rd preseason game this week. Does it not appear likely we feature Bibbs to see what he's got and allow him to get into rhythm.  We know who Rob Kelly is. If Bibbs shows out can he start week 1? I think he could....

[Renegade7]

8 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

I remember hearing it, and I looked it up to see if I could re-verify it. What I found was, while not exactly the same, it was very close to those numbers, and very good.

This was in 2016 :

 

"He averaged 2.17 after contact, the latter of which was ninth best at the position."

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/2575408/rob-kelley

 

Sounds about right.  I remember being excited about the dude that year because you're right he was falling forward at minimum.  I don't think he's that guy anymore, at least I don't see it anymore.

[Malapropismic Depository]

2 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 I don't think he's that guy anymore, at least I don't see it anymore.

 

Well if you read on in that link, it offers a possible explanation which appears to exonerate any fault of his, and the reason you didn't see it in 2017.

 

"In Kelley's defense, he faced stacked boxes (7.1 box defenders per carry was fifth most) and had little pre-contact help (1.45 YBC was sixth lowest)."

[Renegade7]

1 minute ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

Well if you read on in that link, it offers a possible explanation which appears to exonerate any fault of his, and the reason you didn't see it in 2017.

 

"In Kelley's defense, he faced stacked boxes (7.1 box defenders per carry was fifth most) and had little pre-contact help (1.45 YBC was sixth lowest)."

See, now we're talking stats versus the eye test.  No, I didn't see that in the link (I didn't know espn player pages had that much info).  But I'd like to see his yards after contact in 2017 (where are you seeing all that?).  I bet its lower then 2016, for me, that's the key, I know our running blocking isn't always the best, but neither is his vision to help avoid it.  But if that stat averages him getting hit in the backfield, I mean, you almost can't use the stat then.  You can watch him play and see he isn't breaking tackles or falling foward in 2017 like he did in 2016.  And right now he's completely in effective, he's just running into the back of people.

[Malapropismic Depository]

3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

No, I didn't see that in the link (I didn't know espn player pages had that much info).  But I'd like to see his yards after contact in 2017 (where are you seeing all that?).  I bet its lower then 2016, for me, that's the key,

 

Page down a little bit, below the stats.

It's not listed as an actual stat, but in the paragraph with the bold title " ESPN Fantasy Projection: "

To answer your question, his Yards After Contact in 2017 was only 1.68, however as I noted in my last post and quote from that paragraph on ESPN, it uses other stats to come to his defense for those low numbers (faced stacked boxes the 5th most in the league and only travelled 1.45 Yards BEFORE Contact - the 6th lowest, reflecting the declined quality of blocking)