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2018 Free Agency Database - (Signed: WILLIAMS - McPhee - Scandrick - P-Rich) - (Lauvao, Bergstrom, Nsehke, Taylor, Z. Brown and Quick re-signed)

DC9

By DC9
in The Stadium

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bowhunter

bowhunter

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, zoony said:

I sometimes wonder what cost of living plays into these contracts.  Maybe not for the huge contracts, but if you are going to make $10 million in Nashville or Atlanta, imagine how much better standard of living you would have vs living in LA or NYC or San Fran.  That has to be a real factor, and ive never seen any football analyst mention it

As well as state/local income tax situations. My understanding is that the athletes are also subject to municipal "entertainment taxes" at each venue played.

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zoony

zoony

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, bowhunter said:

As well as state/local income tax situations. My understanding is that the athletes are also subject to municipal "entertainment taxes" at each venue played.

 

Interesting.  Probably even more interesting that there are 10,000 football geeks on twitter who analyze everything 24/7, and none of them ever bring this up.  

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skinny21

skinny21

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, zoony said:

 

Interesting.  Probably even more interesting that there are 10,000 football geeks on twitter who analyze everything 24/7, and none of them ever bring this up.  

This whole topic is a really interesting one.  I would guess it’s not brought up because it seems impossible to factor in/track.  Players may well use it as a tie breaker or whatever, but I’ve never seen a player or agent mention it - they’ll always say “I liked the fit with x team” or something.   

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JSSkinz

JSSkinz

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, zoony said:

 

Interesting.  Probably even more interesting that there are 10,000 football geeks on twitter who analyze everything 24/7, and none of them ever bring this up.  

This probably doesn't help us, out of the top 10 most expensive counties to live in the U.S. 5 are in the DMV.

 

Washington, D.C., is more expensive than New York City

 

 

1. Washington, D.C.

A family of four needs $106,493 just to get by in Washington — making this city the most expensive place for parents to raise two children. Child care here is particularly pricey, at $31,158 a year, on average — that’s the highest in the country.

 

https://www.marke****ch.com/story/10-most-expensive-places-to-raise-a-family-in-the-us-2015-08-26

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SWFLSkins

SWFLSkins

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

This probably doesn't help us, out of the top 10 most expensive counties to live in the U.S. 5 are in the DMV.

 

Washington, D.C., is more expensive than New York City

 

 

1. Washington, D.C.

A family of four needs $106,493 just to get by in Washington — making this city the most expensive place for parents to raise two children. Child care here is particularly pricey, at $31,158 a year, on average — that’s the highest in the country.

 

https://www.marke****ch.com/story/10-most-expensive-places-to-raise-a-family-in-the-us-2015-08-26

 

Do any of the players live in D.C.,..... or is this based on outlying counties? 

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clskinsfan

clskinsfan

Posted
Posted
34 minutes ago, zoony said:

I sometimes wonder what cost of living plays into these contracts.  Maybe not for the huge contracts, but if you are going to make $10 million in Nashville or Atlanta, imagine how much better standard of living you would have vs living in LA or NYC or San Fran.  That has to be a real factor, and ive never seen any football analyst mention it

 

And the state taxes as well. CA is 13% off the top. If you sign with a team there you are immediately making 9% less than say in New Orleans. Now for those of us who make a "normal income" it doesnt sound like a big deal. But when you are making 10 million that is a big hit. 

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Voice_of_Reason

Voice_of_Reason

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

This probably doesn't help us.

 

Washington, D.C., is more expensive than New York City

 

 

1. Washington, D.C.

A family of four needs $106,493 just to get by in Washington — making this city the most expensive place for parents to raise two children. Child care here is particularly pricey, at $31,158 a year, on average — that’s the highest in the country.

 

https://www.marke****ch.com/story/10-most-expensive-places-to-raise-a-family-in-the-us-2015-08-26

I didn't know that we were the highest child care cost in the country, but I've certainly felt the effects of that.  I wonder what drives that specifically.  It's absolutely out of control. 

 

 

4 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

This whole topic is a really interesting one.  I would guess it’s not brought up because it seems impossible to factor in/track.  Players may well use it as a tie breaker or whatever, but I’ve never seen a player or agent mention it - they’ll always say “I liked the fit with x team” or something.   

 

20 minutes ago, zoony said:

 

Interesting.  Probably even more interesting that there are 10,000 football geeks on twitter who analyze everything 24/7, and none of them ever bring this up.  

Players might not know tax or cost of living implications, however agents do.  However (again) agents don't really care.  Because they get paid on gross contract dollars, pre-tax.  So they're looking for the top-line deal for their interests.  It's important to remember that agents do have a stake in the game as well.  Typical agent fees are 3% of gross contract earnings.  It can be more for non-football related contracts, where the agent has to do more work.  

 

So, for the Cousins deal, for example, with $85 million (or whatever it was), the agent takes home about $2.5 million. And it doesn't matter a damn whether Cousins is in a jurisdiction which is tax friendly or not.  

 

Something Cooley mentioned, you used to be able to write off Agent Fees on your taxes, but with the new tax laws, you can't anymore.  (I have no idea if that's true or not, but it's what he said.)

 

This is why, if you're a highly compensated player, you should not only have an agent but a personal financial planner who has tax specialists, and they should work with the agents, but are not referred by or compensated by the agents.  People who look at Net Income, cost of living, etc. on your behalf, rather than just gross contract value.  Because the agents are not incented to care.  Unless they can negotiate a team to add income-tax difference back into a contract to match the amount from a non-income tax state.  So, for example, let's say that the Dolphins (Florida - no state income tax) and Redskins (VA - state income tax) both offer a $1 million dollar contract to a player.  The agent could ask the Redskins to increase their offer by the state income tax amount so that after tax they are both the same.  Which would benefit both the player and the agent.  

 

One thing to keep in mind about taxes, though: Typically, in the end, you pay about the same amount of tax, just in different ways.  The states that don't have an income tax have higher property and sales taxes, for example.  So the team could argue (and if it's arguing with an agent, it's going to be ignored) that in the end, it's the same, because sales, auto and property tax are all lower.  The agent, of course, doesn't care. 

 

The cost of living thing, however, is real.  That said, if you're signing a "generational" type of deal, it's somewhat irrelevant.  Again, for Kirk, he could comfortably live on $85 million gross in Minnesota, New York or San Francisco.  Maybe he gets to save an extra 10-20%, but in the end, he's still doing just fine. If you're signing a more modest deal, veteran minimum or something like that, it can have a real financial impact. 

 

I'm waiting for the day when the players set up a shell corporation in the Grand Caymans and instead of signing an employment contract, they sign a business-to-business agreement and get out of the taxes... And spend more time in the Caymans.  :) 

 

Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled programming...

 

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JSSkinz

JSSkinz

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, SWFLSkins said:

 

Do any of the players live in D.C.,..... or is this based on outlying counties? 

I had the info a bit wrong in my last post.

 

Out of the top ten, you have 1 county in MD (Howard #4), 4 in VA (Arlington #8, Fairfax #3, Loudon #1, and Falls Church #2).

 

I'm not sure where most of the players live but I bet its in one of those counties I listed.

 

 

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Voice_of_Reason

Voice_of_Reason

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, SWFLSkins said:

 

Do any of the players live in D.C.,..... or is this based on outlying counties? 

I dunno, but I can tell you that child care out in the burbs near Redskins Park isn't remotely cheap.  Especially where the 'Skins players like to live...  :)  (Economies are smart that way, they know where the money is, and services surrounding those communities are more expensive...)

1 minute ago, Taylorcooley1 said:

Reset button?....just curious to why we haven't talked about kicking the tires on Adrian Peterson...feel free to start bashing me...I would think hes a little long in the tooth but idk would he fit? If so, why not?

He's old, lost a step, lost his burst, probably too expensive and beats his kids?  

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OVCChairman

OVCChairman

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

I had the info a bit wrong in my last post.

 

Out of the top ten, you have 1 county in MD (Howard #4), 4 in VA (Arlington #8, Fairfax #3, Loudon #1, and Falls Church #2).

 

I'm not sure where most of the players live but I bet its in one of those counties I listed.

 

 

The overwhelming majority of players live in Loudon county... as well as coaches.  That's where Redskins park is. 

 

I honestly don't think Child care has much to do with it, because most NFL wives aren't working full time forcing them to need full time childcare.. and if they do it's probably a live in nanny type situation that follows the family.  

 

 

The biggest thing imho is the state income taxes.. I know Kirk was renting a house from Chris Samuels... and I believe other players have done the same thing... not sure if he changed his residence or not.  

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clskinsfan

clskinsfan

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

The overwhelming majority of players live in Loudon county... as well as coaches.  That's where Redskins park is. 

 

I honestly don't think Child care has much to do with it, because most NFL wives aren't working full time forcing them to need full time childcare.. and if they do it's probably a live in nanny type situation that follows the family.  

 

 

The biggest thing imho is the state income taxes..  Some states have flat rate, some have stair step systems, and others (see FLA) dont have a state income tax at all... Basic math tells you what that can do to a multi-million dollar contract.  Va has 5.75% so 6 cents on every dollar is lost.  $60,000 on every $1,000,000.  I would imagine this is why a lot of players still 'reside' where they grew up and stay in their teams area for the duration of the season.  

 

I know Kirk was renting a house from Chris Samuels... and I believe other players have done the same thing... not sure if he changed his residence or not.  

 

Kirks situation is great for him. I posted it a few weeks ago in this thread. He just built a new house in MI. MN has an agreement with MI that it wont tax their residents that commute into MN to work. That helps him A LOT. MI tax rate is 4.25. MN is 9.85....Winning

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OVCChairman

OVCChairman

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

Kirks situation is great for him. I posted it a few weeks ago in this thread. He just built a new house in MI. MN has an agreement with MI that it wont tax their residents that commute into MN to work. That helps him A LOT. MI tax rate is 4.25. MN is 9.85....Winning

yeah that's insane... $4.704 MILLION over the life of the contract.  

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BurgundyBooger

BurgundyBooger

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I didn't know that we were the highest child care cost in the country, but I've certainly felt the effects of that.  I wonder what drives that specifically.  It's absolutely out of control. 

 

A lot of D.C. residents are recent arrivals or transients, removed from the original family base where members (typically grand elders) are traditionally called upon to help rear children. Without the old family structure for support, there's a demand for children assistance and it's only going to get worse until the city sees a rise in multi-generational households.

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Unbias

Unbias

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, skinny21 said:

This whole topic is a really interesting one.  I would guess it’s not brought up because it seems impossible to factor in/track.  Players may well use it as a tie breaker or whatever, but I’ve never seen a player or agent mention it - they’ll always say “I liked the fit with x team” or something.   

 

When La'el Collins fell in the draft on the false rumor that he may have killed his ex girlfriend his agent said his agent would prefer to be a UFDA and pick his landing spot. For UFDAs there is a max amount their contract can be worth. I remember reading one of the reasons he choose Dallas was because they actually paid him the most in after tax dollars. 

 

It does come up if all things are equal, but typically a player has a preference for city/scheme/coaches over state and entertainment taxes. 

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kingdaddy

kingdaddy

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, clskinsfan said:

Excited that the Rams are pursuing you. You cant wait to get to sunny L.A. Then your agent explains California's state tax code to you:

 

Image result for sherman face gif

 

 

I remember a few years back when Phil Mickelson really complained about winning a tournament out in California and after taxes his winnings were down to under half of what he won (or something like that). He was so upset that he threatened to boycott the tournaments out there from what I remember.

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