Stay The Course

[OVCChairman]

5 minutes ago, jschuck12001 said:

I don't get it, isn't this why NY is making all the decisions on replays now? To minimize GAME CHANGING mistakes.  Why wouldn't they jump in and stop play to get this correct, they helped put about 3 nails in our coffin with this bad call.

Grounding is not review-able?  I know it's gonna sour people but I'm a firm believer that penalties of 15 yards or more, or in critical game situations, should be able to be looked at.  These are game changing situations and we keep hearing 'oops... we missed it' but no effort to actually get it right.  The replay system is there to help but sometimes it make me feel like the Refs hate it and try to circumvent it, because it will prove them wrong. 

[SkinsFTW]

11 hours ago, sebestian said:

 

So true. 

 

I mean Egan I do not think I have seen a professional coach have that stupid look on his face. 

 

I swear if I could reach through the TV screen.............

 

sad and frustrated

 

We've definitely seen worse...

 

You suffer from a short memory 

 

 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

This team is probably as stable as it has been during the Snyder Era.

 

And I can say that with a straight face despite the fact that our Front Office is in open warfare with the starting Quarterback AND the GM was fired for being a drunk less than a year ago. Either of those stories would be the biggest stories of the last decade for 20 other teams. For us, they are. "Hey....things are settling down."

 

I think keeping Gruden, signing Cousins to a five year deal, and putting in a completely mediocre GM who will keep the noise down will actually make the Skins just another team. And frankly, that's all we should ever want. Just be another NFL team.

[sebestian]

9 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

We've definitely seen worse...

 

You suffer from a short memory 

 

 

Tooche. 

 

I forgot about him.  

 

Remember when he signed. I thought he was going to revolutionize professional football. Then came the game in Japan.  I was thinking about all the touchdowns we would score, I could not even get to sleep that night because I was so excited.  

 

Then it happened.  

 

I do not remember ever being mad at Spurrier, it was more of an empathetic feeling.  

 

Speaking of Thanksgiving, remember Danny Wuerful starting against Dallas and that pick 6 on our goal line. OMG.

[smoked]

Stay the course. 

 

Look at this league-wide list of current injuries.  https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/injuries.htm

 

The only team that comes close is the Giants, and look at their record (and effort.)

 

We have a young roster, playing many first and second year players and some who weren't even on any team a few weeks ago. 

 

It's somewhat amazing that we've only lost 6 games with THE toughest schedule in the league.  And we've been competitive in those losses (for the most part.) 

 

This isn't a turd that can't be polished.  This is an organization on the cusp of breaking out.  

 

This is a character and team building experience, and it will pay huge dividends if we stay the course.  

[88Comrade2000]

If Cousins wants to win and further develop as a QB, he needs to go elsewhere. Cousins is the type of QB who can't win games all by himself.  He needs the pieces not only on offense but he needs a capable Defense and Special Teams. This will not happen with the Redskins.  The SnyderSkins will never build a team that will be a consistent winner.

 

Kirk wants to have a nice finish to his career and get paid, he needs to sign elsewhere.  In Allen and Snyder's mind; Kirk is Shanny's boy. They didn't pick him.  Their guy turned out to be a bust. Kirk isn't a franchise QB. Thing is, there aren't that many franchise QB's in the NFL.Kirk is good enough, as long as you have pieces around him.  The QB market is overpriced.  The current going rate is $25/ year for a starting QB.  Will SynderAllen pay him that?  I doubt it. He's not their QB and with our likely 7 or 8 win finish; they will be reluctant to offer Kirk the deal he will want.  I see the team moving on from him.  If I was Kirk, I'd go elsewhere.

 

As for Gruden, it's actually in his interest if Kirk leaves. Kirk returns and expectations are higher next year. A new QB, especially a rookie, gives Gruden more time.  I don't need anymore time to see that Gruden will be mediocre at best. A 7-9 win coach. It doesn't matter how long he's here; he won't all of sudden win 12/13 games.  His seat is warm but eventually, he will be judged on his results.

 

I also have no faith in Skins building a consistent winner under SnyderAllen. Just the occasional playoff birth.

[XxSpearheadxX]

5 hours ago, sebestian said:

 

I do not remember ever being mad at Spurrier, it was more of an empathetic feeling.  

 

 

"Ok we wound up 5-11,  not very good! " 

[skins island connection]

On ‎11‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 9:49 AM, Warhead36 said:

Yesterday was...frustrating to say the least. I had to really take time to process it. I know people want blood, fire people, get rid of Gruden and Cousins, etc. but after sleeping on it and thinking about it, I think our best plan is to stay the course.

 

Everyone wants to kill Gruden for some of the moves yesterday, and I agree he did make some mistakes, but with that said, we're fielding a MASH unit on both sides of the ball and are still competing against the best teams in the league. We aren't losing to the likes of the Browns and Colts. Everyone wants to kill Cousins for the very end of the game, but for the second week in a row against a really good defense we've put up 30+ points. When your QB stakes you a 15 point lead with 5 minutes left, its up to everyone else to close it out. One guy only does so much.

 

I see us finishing somewhere around 8-8, but we'll be looked at as one of the good 8-8 teams with our arrow pointing up, assuming we keep Gruden and Cousins. People are whining and crying like we're the Browns, but we're not. Its just been one of those seasons but I think in the long run if we stay the course we'll look at it as kind of a year to base any future success off of.

 

 I can see your point to a degree there are some good things about this team, being competitive against the top teams, not getting blown out, etc.

 

 BUT, the bold part is where I get lost; the MASH unit you speak of is the very team that GOT THE LEAD in games against these very same teams, so I can't buy the whole MASH unit thing as being a crutch. Those guys were out there executing and scoring points, and in the Saints game they were leading by a long shot with 6 minutes left, until the Manusky-led booger-pickers went to sleep. I'm still pissed that the defense went south in a hurry, but then again, outside of the Raiders game they've not done much of anything to talk about.

 

 This was eventually whittled down to coaching, or lack of. Even considering the defense fell apart, at the end the Redskins had a chance to kick a reasonably makeable FG to win the game.

Gruden. Another bone-headed call, and not taking into consideration the Saints defense, with everyone KNOWING they're gonna come after KC. Why waste a play calling for a throw out of bounds? Simply running the ball, even if it doesn't get a yard [ which I'm thinking they will at least get 1-2 yds ] they're still in the middle of the field at the 33 or wherever they were.

that cost them 10 yds, a down, and a 10 second run-off of the clock. Gruden HAS to know the Saints are gonna come after Cousins. Cousins HAS to know they're coming after him. He drops back, turns his back away from the blitzing LBer and boom a sack/fumble/momentum/OT. In a situation like that, Cousins HAS to keep his shoulders square with the line, and Gruden should have been in his ear telling him so.

 

This is Gruden's M.O.  Did the WRs see Cousins audible? It gets a bit confusing after listening to both of them and their discussion about it, Gruden calling for an out-of-bounds throw, Cousins audibles out of the play, WRs run different route?  Its THESE types of plays that separates winners from losers; the details, finer points, communication between players and coaches. There are a few teams out there who have similar records and the same issues, and if they get those corrected, they will be contenders.

 

IMO, Gruden's seat should be getting warm by now. Game after game, year after year, goofy stupid brainless confusion in crucial points in a game that costs this team a victory, and until it is fixed, it will be the same. It starts with Gruden. Proper play calling can eliminate most of the traps this team falls into.

He needs to either pull his head out or get out.

[NoCalMike]

The MASH unit on offense seems to have more depth, especially along the O-line. I think the reason people tend to not give the offense credit is because the running game is so awful....however against New Orleans we got an idea of what the offense would look like as a complete unit (well, besides short yardage rushing..uuuuuugh).  The passing offense is not based on feeding a superstar the ball, it is based on getting people open and Kirk finding the best option, and he has been doing that well for the most part. 

 

The MASH unit on defense is where the lack of depth is more exposed.  It shows just how great of a pick Jonathan Allen was/is because he transformed this pass rush from day 1.  He was getting push and already demanding double teams at times.  When he went out the ordinary guys went back to being ordinary and suddenly the interior D-line went back to being mediocre. The lack of consistent pass rush will forever plague a secondary, regardless of who is in the secondary.  The linebacking core outside of Zach Brown needs upgrades as well.  D-Hall being in the game is a bad sign that injuries have taken out starters and backups. 

 

 

 

[OVCChairman]

2 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

The MASH unit on offense seems to have more depth, especially along the O-line. I think the reason people tend to not give the offense credit is because the running game is so awful....however against New Orleans we got an idea of what the offense would look like as a complete unit (well, besides short yardage rushing..uuuuuugh).  The passing offense is not based on feeding a superstar the ball, it is based on getting people open and Kirk finding the best option, and he has been doing that well for the most part. 

 

The MASH unit on defense is where the lack of depth is more exposed.  It shows just how great of a pick Jonathan Allen was/is because he transformed this pass rush from day 1.  He was getting push and already demanding double teams at times.  When he went out the ordinary guys went back to being ordinary and suddenly the interior D-line went back to being mediocre. The lack of consistent pass rush will forever plague a secondary, regardless of who is in the secondary.  The linebacking core outside of Zach Brown needs upgrades as well.  D-Hall being in the game is a bad sign that injuries have taken out starters and backups. 

 

 

 

This is why we had a False Start on the FG attempt... McGee was the one that flinched, and it cost us.  I can't imagine he's usually in on FG protection packages very often, and it hurt us.  

[Dark Acre]

"With the 12th overall pick in the 2018 draft, the Washington Redskins select Quentin Nelson, Guard, Notre Dame."

 

Watch our opening drive in the 1982 NFC Championship against Dallas, who had a great front 4.  We blew them off the line.  Granted we had Riggins, a HOF'er, but Perine's no scatback.  I want this team to be able to ram it down the opposing team's throat all the way down the field, time after time.

[Veryoldschool]

I want the Skins to:

 

1.  Ink Cousins to a 5 year deal at whatever cost will get it done.

2.  Hire a GM with authority

3.  Analyze the season's results and figure out how to improve the running game.  I am inclined to believe a large part of the problem is a weakness at center and left guard, but the backs are not that impressive either.  Maybe the scheme needs improving also, I don't know overall improving the run game.

4.  Cousins needs more help from receivers.  I'd let Pryor go and find another tall receiver in the draft.  I would also get another TE because Reid has taken a lot of punishment and is probably a role player going forward.

 

 

[cakmoney61]

I can't agree more that the Redskins should stay the course.  Their talent level has greatly improved with young talent.  So far, the multiple injuries and extremely difficult schedule have been too much to overcome. 

 

Gruden does concern me however with his horrific playcalling in crunch time.  He seems to come up small at the most important moments in games and it seems to negatively effect the confidence of the players.  

 

This year has been an aberration with the injuries and the schedule.  As such, I would stay the course with Gruden.  IMO, he is the key to whatever success Cousins and the offense does have.  So stay the course and add to the talent pool mostly through the draft.    

[Audible_Red40]

I hate resetting and starting over.  There is no reason to do that.  I agree, stay the course, let's keep moving forward.

 

I am a believer in Gruden and Cousins.

[Warhead36]

1 hour ago, GothSkinsFan said:

"With the 12th overall pick in the 2018 draft, the Washington Redskins select Quentin Nelson, Guard, Notre Dame."

 

Watch our opening drive in the 1982 NFC Championship against Dallas, who had a great front 4.  We blew them off the line.  Granted we had Riggins, a HOF'er, but Perine's no scatback.  I want this team to be able to ram it down the opposing team's throat all the way down the field, time after time.

I doubt we go G again in the first round. We still need a lot of help on D. I'd look for pass rushing DE/OLB or another ILB to pair with Brown. Might need to look at CB too. Breeland is a FA and Norman is gonna start entering that too expensive for his age/production category.

[cakmoney61]

4 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I doubt we go G again in the first round. We still need a lot of help on D. I'd look for pass rushing DE/OLB or another ILB to pair with Brown. Might need to look at CB too. Breeland is a FA and Norman is gonna start entering that too expensive for his age/production category.

 

I would love a G and RB in the first two rounds in whatever order followed by a WR in the third.  The running game must get better and the 2018 draft is as good a time as any to address it.  The rest of the picks could address the defense.

[srtman04]

19 hours ago, Rdskns2000 said:

If Cousins wants to win and further develop as a QB, he needs to go elsewhere. Cousins is the type of QB who can't win games all by himself.  He needs the pieces not only on offense but he needs a capable Defense and Special Teams. This will not happen with the Redskins.  The SnyderSkins will never build a team that will be a consistent winner.

 

Kirk wants to have a nice finish to his career and get paid, he needs to sign elsewhere.  In Allen and Snyder's mind; Kirk is Shanny's boy. They didn't pick him.  Their guy turned out to be a bust. Kirk isn't a franchise QB. Thing is, there aren't that many franchise QB's in the NFL.Kirk is good enough, as long as you have pieces around him.  The QB market is overpriced.  The current going rate is $25/ year for a starting QB.  Will SynderAllen pay him that?  I doubt it. He's not their QB and with our likely 7 or 8 win finish; they will be reluctant to offer Kirk the deal he will want.  I see the team moving on from him.  If I was Kirk, I'd go elsewhere.

 

As for Gruden, it's actually in his interest if Kirk leaves. Kirk returns and expectations are higher next year. A new QB, especially a rookie, gives Gruden more time.  I don't need anymore time to see that Gruden will be mediocre at best. A 7-9 win coach. It doesn't matter how long he's here; he won't all of sudden win 12/13 games.  His seat is warm but eventually, he will be judged on his results.

 

I also have no faith in Skins building a consistent winner under SnyderAllen. Just the occasional playoff birth.

This is quiete possibly the most depressing thing I've read all year, wow. 

[Burger35]

I really believe we need to get one of these running backs in round one of the draft.  I love this kid from Notre Dame, Adams....  We need a guy who can bang out yards, hit a HR, block, and catch a pass.  Sick of seeing these guys that always give me 3.9 to 4.1 yards, need a guy who can break a 20-50 yarder.

[petey hodge]

More like, "Stay the Curse" ...

 

my my heart gets broken by these skins in new and curiously painful ways each year.  That Saints game really hurt.  Worse than most.

[bedlamVR]

I think the Redskins should and will stay the course. I think for the first time in a long time we have a direction - We might end up with a 6-10 type record this season but this is not the good old Redskins 6-10 where the wins have come against bad teams and the losses have been brutal. The losses have been brutal because they have been close games in almost every case . Even the first Eagles game where Kirk was asleep the final score was bloated by the fumble recovery that wasn't. 

 

I have watched and watched that intentional grounding play and I can see it as a miscommunication a play that 9999 times in 10000 will be called as an incomplete pass as Kirk was not going to be sacked and it looked like the WR just goofed - Kirk should have seen that and just hoofed it into the first row....  All the play does is lose a down and stop the clock. The one thing the Skins did not want to do was loose ground or the ball (fumble)  and with Perrine that is still a concern and running right into an all out run blitz with no time outs and the clock running could easily have eaten up 20 or 30 seconds off the clock - Especially considering how inept the referees were.

 

There are people who want change BUT they always want change - The one change would be a lack of change. Stay the course ...  

[skinfan2k]

You people act like it takes 3 years to build a winner.  WIth this franchise, you need to undone the damage from the last 25 before you can get started for the future.  

 

[carex]

22 hours ago, skins island connection said:

 

 I can see your point to a degree there are some good things about this team, being competitive against the top teams, not getting blown out, etc.

 

 BUT, the bold part is where I get lost; the MASH unit you speak of is the very team that GOT THE LEAD in games against these very same teams, so I can't buy the whole MASH unit thing as being a crutch. Those guys were out there executing and scoring points, and in the Saints game they were leading by a long shot with 6 minutes left, until the Manusky-led booger-pickers went to sleep. I'm still pissed that the defense went south in a hurry, but then again, outside of the Raiders game they've not done much of anything to talk about.

 

 

 

More injuries occurred during the game, we lost Nicholson and McClain was hurt bad enough during this game that he was ruled out pretty quickly for this one.  And take a look at the injury list, how many of them are on the defense.  If they were playing a bunch of walking wounded maybe that's why the defense wasn't working

19 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I doubt we go G again in the first round. We still need a lot of help on D. I'd look for pass rushing DE/OLB or another ILB to pair with Brown. Might need to look at CB too. Breeland is a FA and Norman is gonna start entering that too expensive for his age/production category.

 

15 hours ago, cakmoney61 said:

 

I would love a G and RB in the first two rounds in whatever order followed by a WR in the third.  The running game must get better and the 2018 draft is as good a time as any to address it.  The rest of the picks could address the defense.

 

Honestly, at this point we've used enough on defense you can't really use picks there without tossing someone without gving them a full chance to prove themselves.  A top flight NT or ILB is possible.  But Spaight is playing well and Ionnadis and Allen were doing good till hurt.   At S I like Everett, I like Nicholson.  Breeland may be a FA, but Fuller is playing well, so is Dunbar and Moreau has had some moments.  And it is to soon to be tossing Norman.

 

RB and LG our probably our top needs next year

[cakmoney61]

9 hours ago, skinfan2k said:

You people act like it takes 3 years to build a winner.  WIth this franchise, you need to undone the damage from the last 25 before you can get started for the future.  

 

What do you suggest they do.  They have quite a few young and talented players they should continue to develop.  The Redskins definitely need to get rid of any dead weight, but are you suggesting a rebuild?

[Warhead36]

The problem is we're three first round picks behind because of the RG3 trade and we were already significantly behind the talent curve at that time. I think we've made up for it some with some real good draft picks in the middle to low rounds(Moses, Reed, Thompson to name a few)but we really lack more top end talent. Imagine if we had those picks, we're talking about possibly another quality starting ILB, FS, and DE.

[Paul Cumberland]

25 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

The problem is we're three first round picks behind because of the RG3 trade and we were already significantly behind the talent curve at that time. I think we've made up for it some with some real good draft picks in the middle to low rounds(Moses, Reed, Thompson to name a few)but we really lack more top end talent. Imagine if we had those picks, we're talking about possibly another quality starting ILB, FS, and DE.

 

Pretty sure it's 2 since we swapped 1's with the Rams to move up.  But point taken..  definitely could have used the next 2 years 1st rounders and have surprisingly done well since.  Hopefully that trend continues...