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The 2017 FA Thread - OP Updated with Signings (Sundberg, Galette, VD, Hood re-signed) *** Terrell McClain, Stacy McGee, DJ Swearinger, Terrelle Pryor, Chris Carter, Brian Quick, ZACH BROWN(!!)***

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted
Just now, RandyHolt said:

Seriously, the search for a nose has to be considered a total failure to this point. Will we accept another 7 years as just bad luck and stick with the 3-4 no matter what?

 

Agreed @Morneblade - outside of a handful of stud plays from our college 4-3 linemen converted to 34 backers, our front 7 has sucked for a long time. We looked so much more competent as a 4-3.

 

Manusky said he's sticking to a 3-4 if I recall.  Sounds like he wants his D line to be primarily run stuffers with the pressure coming off the edges.  Reading about his scheme a little, I gather he likes to bring the pressure up the middle via the linebackers.  That's why on the draft thread, I am wondering about H. Reddick -- he would fit that mold.  

 

Agree NT has been a mess from the outset.  Shanny is the one who made the conversion and led it off with signing Kemoeatu and its ultimately been one scrub after another.  Granted the Giants play 4-3 but Damon Harrison helped transform their defense from being one of the worst against the run to one of the best.   And it helped them thwart the run happy Cowboys last season.  So I don't mind trying to get a really good NT who can stuff the run.  The question is are they going to actually get a real difference making NT or continue to run with just "guys" at that position.

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fordranger76

fordranger76

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, moondog said:

It's absolutely who would you rather. It's how do you allocate the funds. For McClain and McGee we could have had Logan. And it doesn't affect future contracts in any way on a one year deal which is what Logan signed. And we didn't freaking need swearinger either. The backend is pointless when we give up 4.5 ypc. 

 

Dont sign swearinger, McClain or McGee. Or this scrub carter - we already have garvin, spaight and Daniels. You sign Hankins AND Logan and Pryor in addition to the re-signed players we kept and sign Kirk long term, which saves cap this year. Call it a day in FA. We already have much of the depth we need on defense, we lack anyone that makes a significant impact on the run. 

 

NT: Logan (Ioannidis)

DE: Hankins and Hood (Lanier and another rotational guy - likely a rookie or one of our future contract guys)

ILB: Compton/Foster (Garvin/spaight/Daniels)

OLB: Kerrigan/Gallette (Murphy/smith)

CB: Norman/Breeland (Fuller/pick a guy - maybe toler)

SS: Cravens (Everett)

FS: Hall/Blackmon 

 

and none one of this includes rookies - we have ten picks to fill in depth and get an impact player or two in a deep defensive draft. 

Please tell me that we couldn't afford this and that it isn't drastically better than what we actually have done. 

I dunno. Not sure I would be comfortable having Pryor, Logan, and Hankins all on one year rentals just to push forward for the year. So say they ball out and they are all gone the following year? So you are basically renting them for a season. On one player sure that makes sense but 3? That would not be a good way to build a team. You would be right back where you started this year with even less depth than before. And on the back end of that say we sign all 3 on LTD then we for sure would not have enough for the O-line and Cousins. Just not possible. Whole right side gone with nothing to replace them with. 

 

If we do not sign Swearinger then we rely on Blackmon and Hall for our safeties along with Cravens and who knows how he will work out. You are seriously comfortable with this? One is on his last legs and the other only continues to regress. Cravens has potential but he could be a mess back there. We just don't know yet. Not sure how that is going to help the defense in any way shape or form. So we cure the run but now they just gash us over the top? Not sure what that would be accomplishing at all really. 

 

I understand the importance of stopping the run I really do but you have to do it wise and with depth for a few years and not one year rentals. If McClain and McGee provide at least serviceable depth and Swearinger is young enough to continue to improve I just don't see how they won't work.  And as for rookies we need help not only on the line but linebackers and corners. Norman is a stud no doubt but corner 2 and the nickle are big time questions marks. If we ignore the Breeland regression then we literally have one guy that can sure fire cover. Again we can stop the run in your scenario but who cares when people are just passing all day?

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Morneblade

Morneblade

Posted
Posted
Just now, RandyHolt said:

Seriously, the search for a nose has to be considered a total failure to this point. Will we accept another 7 years as just bad luck and stick with the 3-4 no matter what?

 

Agreed @Morneblade - outside of a handful of stud plays from our college 4-3 linemen converted to 34 backers, our front 7 has sucked for a long time. We looked so much more competent as a 4-3.

 

I went back to our last year in a 4-3, the 4-12 Zorn team. I would kill for that D right now.

18th in points

10th in total yards

4.0 rush against ave.

33% to score against

19 passing TD's and 10 rushing TD's given up.

 

Even being dead last in forced TO's, can you imagine how many more games we would wind with this? And this was with Blache as DC.

 

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Morneblade

Morneblade

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Manusky said he's sticking to a 3-4 if I recall.  Sounds like he wants his D line to be primarily run stuffers with the pressure coming off the edges.  Reading about his scheme a little, I gather he likes to bring the pressure up the middle via the linebackers.  That's why on the draft thread, I am wondering about H. Reddick -- he would fit that mold.  

 

Agree NT has been a mess from the outset.  Shanny is the one who made the conversion and led it off with signing Kemoeatu and its ultimately been one scrub after another.  Granted the Giants play 4-3 but Damon Harrison helped transform their defense from being one of the worst against the run to one of the best.   And it helped them thwart the run happy Cowboys last season.  So I don't mind trying to get a really good NT who can stuff the run.  The question is are they going to actually get a real difference making NT or continue to run with just "guys" at that position.

 

I'm sure he's going to run the 3-4, even though he does have some experience in the 4-3, from everything he has said. I like Reddick as well, but for a different reason. Even though he was a 4-3 DL, he's played in the secondary (I think in HS) and is much better in coverage than you would think. What little I saw in the Sr. Bowl drills, he was lights out in coverage. Right now, we don't have a LB that is even average in coverage, so that sold me, outside of all the other stuff he brings.

 

To you last question? No, I don't. I think we're just going to throw cheap bodies at the position, which is why Randy Holt are going back and forth about why even bother running a 3-4 then? LB's are different, DE's are very different. DT's are different. And, it's easier to get 4-3 pieces than 3-4, especially the NT. 325 pound big men that can move and have agility is very hard to find. 290 pound guys are a lot easier to find. But good luck finding a 290 pound dude than can take a Center and a guard, and maybe even get chipped and not get blown backwards. The just don't make them. And Ziggy Hood is essentially that, and why we got gash up the middle, and everywhere else honestly.

 

It's just frustrating. And yes, we're in that base package a little less than 30% of the time. So, if that is the case, why even bother? Just get THOSE pieces.

 

I'm just venting right now SiP, I'll try not to hijack this anymore.

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Genghis Khan

Genghis Khan

Posted
Posted
On 3/17/2017 at 9:07 PM, Morneblade said:

 

 

 

Pick6 is correct, Johnathan Allen. After that you're looking 3-4 round for value.

 

Imo he's not a true NT. He could play it but that would be a waste of talent at nose. If anything he's a five tech that can play nose when asked. There are some mid round to late prospects that are true nose guards. I just hope that they really draft bpa and not reach just to make the fans happy. 

 

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Est.1974

Est.1974

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

Is it wise to spend a top pick on a NT since at best we only plan to use him for 25% of the snaps, or will a true nose be playing when we are in our more preferred 4-2-5?  I worry we will get our proper return on investment.

 

I miss the 4-3 days when finding a DL would never require 7 years. And counting.

 

I think we are looking for a proper big fat ugly in the 330+ range for NT. Think we'll pick one in the 5th or later, based on the prospects we have been linked with it seems that way to me. I love me some Stevie Tu'i out of USC, although he potentially a season away from being ready. Has Wilfork retired yet.

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carex

carex

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Posted

 

5 hours ago, Genghis Khan said:

 

Imo he's not a true NT. He could play it but that would be a waste of talent at nose. If anything he's a five tech that can play nose when asked. There are some mid round to late prospects that are true nose guards. I just hope that they really draft bpa and not reach just to make the fans happy. 

 

 

the draft board I saw has him listed as 286, so yeah.  Not a true NT

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Est.1974

Est.1974

Posted
Posted

If we are looking for a true NT, and get could be going down the mid to later round draft pick-up, do the team end up bringing in a cheap vet for camp. Paul Soliai comes to mind. Potentially washed up by now, don't know to be honest. Not saying it's a good idea either. But to be fair, we don't really have anything do we right now.

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RandyHolt

RandyHolt

Posted
Posted

Anyone is possible. We bulked up Keds last year to play nose after 0 tackles in 2015 IIRC. Wow that crashed and burned fast. It's no surprise to me a guy that beefed up blew a knee. For the love of the game someone please tell me he is not our solution again this season.  This is what our 3-4 NT search has evolved to.

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Est.1974

Est.1974

Posted
Posted

Kevin Minters one year deal is apparently max value 4.5mil, that's including incentives.

 

My view is that we are now going ILB at #17, but I will be very disappointed if we don't bring another ILB in during FA if that is the market rate at the moment.

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Riggo#44

Riggo#44

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, dyst said:

Damn I always forget about that guy ha. No you're right he seems like a good young talent.

 

Crowder? Kerrigan?

12 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

I went back to our last year in a 4-3, the 4-12 Zorn team. I would kill for that D right now.

18th in points

10th in total yards

4.0 rush against ave.

33% to score against

19 passing TD's and 10 rushing TD's given up.

 

Even being dead last in forced TO's, can you imagine how many more games we would wind with this? And this was with Blache as DC.

 

 

We also had a powderpuff schedule, including a stretch of 6 straight winless teams. These are pretty numbers and all, but that defense was highly overrated.

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Riggo#44

Riggo#44

Posted
Posted
Just now, dyst said:

Crowder is another good one but I've leveled down on Kerrigan. He's good but I don't consider him one of the best at his position.

 

Kerrigan is a very good player. I see people complaining about him and really don't get it. He's one of 2 or 3 playmakers on this defense.

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Sekhmet187

Sekhmet187

Posted
Posted

I think the people who don't like the Swearinger signing are just regurgitating his scouting reports and the fact hes bounced around a few teams. All of that to me is due to him not being a good run defense SS and a more natural zone coverage FS. 

 

Regardless, hes coming in as a FS starter which fills a terrible void the team has had for awhile. Hopefully he continues his strong play from Arizona and he will be a strength for the defense in the passing game.

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Rattlesnake88

Rattlesnake88

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Sekhmet187 said:

I think the people who don't like the Swearinger signing are just regurgitating his scouting reports and the fact hes bounced around a few teams. All of that to me is due to him not being a good run defense SS and a more natural zone coverage FS. 

 

Regardless, hes coming in as a FS starter which fills a terrible void the team has had for awhile. Hopefully he continues his strong play from Arizona and he will be a strength for the defense in the passing game.

Well I think a lot of people think he is a natural SS because he is a hitter and runs a 4.6. What they are failing to realize is that he was solid at FS last year in a top 5 defense and also one of the best FS in the nation when he played in college. He is a great signing. 

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