I admit, I was wrong about Joe Barry

[Wildbunny]

Joe Barry really does nothing for me. He's too concerned with getting beat over the top it seems. Obviously rushing 4 was not going to be good enough against a truly great QB. Where's your change up? Where's your in game adjustment with bringing pressure? Yeah, GB is a better team, but you have to try something and he really didn't. I've seen that from him far to often this year.

 

Yeah sure, bring on the heavy blitz and get torched for 10+ yards each play... That's a better strategy.

Playing it like this and we would have lost something like 54-18 or something... Sure that place would feel better about that.

His job is to allow us to remain in the game and let the O do its job and score points.

 

I'm not gonna post it for obvious rules around here, but DeSean Jackson instagram'post from 2014 would really apply here for Barry and this season.

Give him better talent, a healthy D, and we'll be able to judge him then. Right now, new scheme, tons of huge injuries, did not help him in any way. See the heart, passion, and the rise of a few nice findings in the draft, the work to get some guys ready for game time, and you'll notice that yeah, it's not perfect, for everyone in this team, but D is also on the right track.

 

Will Barry makes this a Top 5 D in a year or two? Don't know, but he doesn't have to to succeed.

[grego]

The defense was not the issue. Cousins got sacked 6 times and just beat up. Our offense couldn't stay on the field, while Rodgers wouldn't let our defense off it. It was hardly an X&O's issue.

 

Rodgers showed why he might be the best QB in the league.

 

Also, can we stop with the corners being 10 yards off stuff. It's so over blown. When the WR releases, it takes a split second, until they are on the CB. The one WR on the line gets pressed, the others, if you're on the line, the WR will get behind you immediately. Unless someone wants to make the argument that our safeties should be playing deep WR only coverage and ignoring the RBs who were running right through us, because you can make that argument. It's wrong, but you can make it.

 

 

 

 

i was blaming the D more than the O monday morning. after further review, i think its closer to 50/50. both definitely played a part, both took a step back from what we've come to expect, imo.

 

i'm still burned about that one specific play (wish i had a screen cap of it) with our DB playing so far off and jones on third and 2. i mean, with aaron rodgers at QB, youre literally just giving them the first down if youre not pressing. i get that you dont want to get beat over the top, but all i heard all week (and what GB has shown most of the season) was that, without nelson, these guys cant beat you over the top. pressing is how teams have beaten them.

 

once rodgers went hurry up, our D got worn out and they basically ran the ball down out throats the rest of the game. 

 

i also get that our talent isnt the best, but i would have liked to have seen something, anything. rodgers and that O has been ordinary the past 10 weeks. you wouldnt have known it sunday.

[Warhead36]

The one thing I noticed that I really didn't like was how the Packers offense kept lining up more WRs then we had DBs. Quite a few times you'd see 3 WRs lined up against 1 CB so it'd be an easy pitch and catch and run after catch with a WR having blockers in front of him.

 

We should have played more tight press man. If we get beat downfield we get beat downfield but I think Barry was a bit too conservative. I understand why, with the depleted secondary, but its a playoff game so its worth taking some risks.

 

With that said, I still want to see him coach up even an average talented D.

[Skins Wingman]

Yeah sure, bring on the heavy blitz and get torched for 10+ yards each play... That's a better strategy.

Playing it like this and we would have lost something like 54-18 or something... Sure that place would feel better about that.

His job is to allow us to remain in the game and let the O do its job and score points.

what have the packers shown the past 10 weeks or whatever that makes you believe they would torch us?

look at the other games, 18-16, 10-9, 30-0. cant really count the chiefs game because hoyer imploded and the defense really only gave up 23. our 18 points look pretty good in those other games. if barrys job was to keep us in the game, he did a terrible job. he got outsmarted by mccarthy plain and simple. has nothing to do with talent or injuries.

[NoCalMike]

I think Joe Barry called the defense for that game way too conservative given what Green Bay's WR's have to offer.

 

If we got over aggressive with the blitz would Rodgers have burned the defense a few times? Sure, probably....but he is perhaps the best QB in the league right now, he will find ways to make great plays against any style of defense, that's why he is who he is.

 

When the game was close and/or when the 'Skins were up I understand possibly why you would rather be a bit more cautious, but there came a time as the game wore on and our 4 man fronts were producing zilch, that it was time to at least try to do something to disrupt Rodgers's comfort in the pocket.

 

Again, with this coaching staff my biggest concern and question is how they adjust during the game.  Maybe they feel with all the injuries and depth issues that they are handcuffed from deviating from plans, but this is the season on the line here and you are basically conceding a clean pocket for Rodgers on every snap.

[Wildbunny]

what have the packers shown the past 10 weeks or whatever that makes you believe they would torch us?

look at the other games, 18-16, 10-9, 30-0. cant really count the chiefs game because hoyer imploded and the defense really only gave up 23. our 18 points look pretty good in those other games. if barrys job was to keep us in the game, he did a terrible job. he got outsmarted by mccarthy plain and simple. has nothing to do with talent or injuries.

 

Because they've got Aaron Rodgers.

And that's how our D have been playing for the year. Protecting pass more than Run to make up for a depleted secondary. And that's how we had some kind of success lately. So what have we done to make you think we would have succeeded doing something else?

[skins island connection]

GB was underestimated by many, including myself and probably Barry to a degree.

A smart veteran QB like Rodgers will look for opportunities to catch 12-13 guys onfield and try to quick snap to get those extra 5 yds. The advantage is having a 1st & 5 because the offense is already ahead and can afford to take chances, confusion sets in and before we know it GB is sniffing the goal line.

What was working the 1st qtr was pressure but 2nd qtr, wind at their backs, it would be more challenging to our D, and protecting a lead was going to be hard with the same pressure, but it seemed to have dropped off altogether. Conditioning played a part, and playing any fast team will show similar results, you just hope they run out of gas too or get just as tired.

But our LBers are better suited for line support, not coverage; that's something Barry will have to work on.

[goskins10]

this is where i disagree. rodgers hasnt looked good recently because hes getting so much pressure. he was also very inaccurate against us. i would blitz and frustrate him and take my chances that he would continue to be inaccurate. as soon as they went hurry up, it was like we hadn't prepared for that. ive been saying the past couple weeks i dont like how we get early leads and the defense gives up a lot of points at the end. you cant do that in the playoffs. we had them down, we should have gone for the throat. for an amped up guy, barry sure does run a low key defense.

 

 

Sorry, but it's really easy to say you will take your chances when it's not really your decision nor your ass on the line if it fails. Sure, maybe he should have blitzed more. But as soon as we get beat deep, this thread is filled with, "we can't even keep - fill in the name - from beating us long! How bad is that! This defense sucks!" 

 

We got beat by a better team. We were in the POs on house money. It was good for the guys to get the experience so the next time we are here (and I do believe this team will be back soon, if not next year then 2017 for sure) they will remember and play better.

[Skins Wingman]

Because they've got Aaron Rodgers.

And that's how our D have been playing for the year. Protecting pass more than Run to make up for a depleted secondary. And that's how we had some kind of success lately. So what have we done to make you think we would have succeeded doing something else?

its not what have we done, its what hasnt green bay done. they have shown they have serious protection issues and even when there is protection they cant connect on a consistent basis. there is nothing that shows we shouldnt have played more aggressive. we played the same way the last couple weeks of the year, not closing teams out and allowing them to come back. i thought that would be a learning experience for the playoffs but i guess not

 

 

Sorry, but it's really easy to say you will take your chances when it's not really your decision nor your ass on the line if it fails. Sure, maybe he should have blitzed more. But as soon as we get beat deep, this thread is filled with, "we can't even keep - fill in the name - from beating us long! How bad is that! This defense sucks!" 

 

We got beat by a better team. We were in the POs on house money. It was good for the guys to get the experience so the next time we are here (and I do believe this team will be back soon, if not next year then 2017 for sure) they will remember and play better.

thats the thing i dont think they are a better team. when a lot of the "experts" are picking us to win, that tells you something because everybody loves to hate on the redskins. i think we were the better team but we just got outcoached.

[Riggo-toni]

If Coughlin gets hired somewhere, he may very likely take Fewell with him. Will be interesting to see how Barry does without him.

[NoCalMike]

its not what have we done, its what hasnt green bay done. they have shown they have serious protection issues and even when there is protection they cant connect on a consistent basis. there is nothing that shows we shouldnt have played more aggressive. we played the same way the last couple weeks of the year, not closing teams out and allowing them to come back. i thought that would be a learning experience for the playoffs but i guess not

 

 

thats the thing i dont think they are a better team. when a lot of the "experts" are picking us to win, that tells you something because everybody loves to hate on the redskins. i think we were the better team but we just got outcoached.

 

I don't know if we were the "better" team position-to-position, but I think we were good enough to go out and try to be a bit more aggressive in our gameplan on both offense and defense. 

 

Notice how Green Bay brought heavy pressure and blitzing despite us having a WR that can blow the top off a defense?  There is always going to be a risk/reward ratio involved in strategy.  If Cousins hit Jackson for a long TD Pass (as I hear game film showed he was wide open on the sack-fumble play) that probably would have called off the dogs somewhat going forward or at least they would have been a lot more situation-based in how they were blitzing.

What did Rodgers connect on deep down field that dictated our pass rush to be so passive?  Rodgers looked lost out there early, rushing throws, inaccurate, and hitting the turf.  Green Bay made adjustments, but where were ours?   Was there any part of the game where it looked like our approach changed to counter-act what the Pack were doing?

[Wildbunny]

its not what have we done, its what hasnt green bay done. they have shown they have serious protection issues and even when there is protection they cant connect on a consistent basis. there is nothing that shows we shouldnt have played more aggressive. we played the same way the last couple weeks of the year, not closing teams out and allowing them to come back. i thought that would be a learning experience for the playoffs but i guess not

 

 

It's not about what you should do.

It's about what you can do.

 

That's a huge difference.

 

And by the way, in every sports, the best team ALWAYS win the game.

[NickyJ]

It's not about what you should do.

It's about what you can do.

 

That's a huge difference.

 

And by the way, in every sports, the best team ALWAYS win the game.

I agree with all your points except your last one.

[Duckus]

If Coughlin gets hired somewhere, he may very likely take Fewell with him. Will be interesting to see how Barry does without him.

 

We don't have to release him I believe. Position to coordinator is still technically a lateral move and can be blocked (I think...)

[50yrSKINSfan]

If Coughlin gets hired somewhere, he may very likely take Fewell with him. Will be interesting to see how Barry does without him.

Can't happen. The NFL does not allow lateral moves. If a guy is a coordinator, and he has a contract, he can only leave to become a head coach not another coordinator. Cheers.

[NickyJ]

Can't happen. The NFL does not allow lateral moves. If a guy is a coordinator, and he has a contract, he can only leave to become a head coach not another coordinator. Cheers.

Fewell is a DB coach at the moment. Wouldn't making him a coordinator make it not a lateral move?

 

Edit: Looking at his Wikipedia page... "Under his leadership, the Giants defense was often criticized for being 'off and soft', allowing other teams to come back into games they should not have been able to." I dunno. Firing the guy from your staff, then hiring him back 2 years later on a different team seems a bit unlikely to me.

[goskins10]

 

 

thats the thing i dont think they are a better team. when a lot of the "experts" are picking us to win, that tells you something because everybody loves to hate on the redskins. i think we were the better team but we just got outcoached.

 

Again, sorry but we are not a better team in terms of talent. e like to think our players are better than they are. But they are just not. We had no running game. WE only really have one TE. The C and LG are a weak spot even with KL back. He was not good Sunday but wasn't exactly playing lights out before he sat down.

 

We had 4 guys that were not on the team to start the season got a lot of minutes, including a CB and LB. Another one of our CB was just signed last week!   Yes, Scot did a great job getting guys to fill holes, but let's be real, they just filled holes. Terrance was average most of the time. Hatcher was in and out.

 

There are very few positions on our roster you can look at and say - Yea, they are solid! No need to worry.  We need a big WR, another TE or 3, major help on the DLine. We need a C and a LG.  Are we set at RB? Maybe, but something was wrong with the running game. Something was bad.

 

Of all things, STs is probable the most stable.

 

So yea, GB is a much better team in terms of talent. But we all knew that going in. We had to play almost perfect to expect to get past GB, I don't care how they played at the end of the season. That does not mean there were not beatable. Had we gotten more push from our front 7, Kirk looked downfield a little more, and both ran better ourselves and defended the Run better we will be fine. .

[Skins Wingman]

What did Rodgers connect on deep down field that dictated our pass rush to be so passive?  Rodgers looked lost out there early, rushing throws, inaccurate, and hitting the turf.  Green Bay made adjustments, but where were ours?   Was there any part of the game where it looked like our approach changed to counter-act what the Pack were doing?

Exactly. Barry's adjustment to the hurry up offense was to stay in nickel. Our nickel package is terrible. knighton said he felt helpless standing on the sideline while green bay was running all over us. I know he is a big boy and having him trapped on the field for a long drive is dangerous, but we needed our best players on the field. I usually check the snap counts after the game and knighton only plays 20-30 plays in a game usually out of 60-70. i dont know if thats conditioning or because we always seem to be in nickel but when teams start running on us he needs to be out there.

A few weeks ago a bills player said the problem with their defense was teams were dictating what they did and they were substituting too much. i feel as though barry allowed the packers to have their way with him and they took control of the game. hopefully this was a learning experience.

[Wildbunny]

I agree with all your points except your last one.

 

Yeah I expected that particular play to come.

But let me tell you, if Green Bay was that better, the game should have been over way before the last play.

If they were better, they wouldn't have let one seahawks guy get his hands on the ball while they're 5 around it. Do a blatant DPI if you feel like you're not getting so ball so he doesn't get it... Somehow you're putting yourself in position to get beaten.

 

Being the best means, to me, that's my view of it, not necessarily being the most atheltic, the most talented, the most skillful team. It's about being the smartest. It's about doing what you have to to win. Both teams came to the game with a gameplan. And in the end one of them ends up with a W. So, all they've done, was what they needed to get the W, while the opposing team did not.

 

That's what happened on that TD at the end of the first half for GB. Rodgers caught us with our pants down once during this drive with 12th man on the field. Then a few plays later, he does it twice. Because the coaching staff is daring him to do it again by trying to substitute while they're in hurry up. Because players aren't paying attention and aren't sprinting to the sidelines and only trotting out... Because Baker is trying to call for a time out after the ball was snapped... Was there a penalty on GB? Yes. Did the Ref missed it? Yes. But how many things did our D missed on that play? A ton.

 

And yes, even if I'm backing Barry a lot around here, he was responsible on that play. Huge lesson to learn here.

[SanDog_Skins]

i was blaming the D more than the O monday morning. after further review, i think its closer to 50/50. both definitely played a part, both took a step back from what we've come to expect, imo.

 

i'm still burned about that one specific play (wish i had a screen cap of it) with our DB playing so far off and jones on third and 2. i mean, with aaron rodgers at QB, youre literally just giving them the first down if youre not pressing. i get that you dont want to get beat over the top, but all i heard all week (and what GB has shown most of the season) was that, without nelson, these guys cant beat you over the top. pressing is how teams have beaten them.

 

once rodgers went hurry up, our D got worn out and they basically ran the ball down out throats the rest of the game. 

 

i also get that our talent isnt the best, but i would have liked to have seen something, anything. rodgers and that O has been ordinary the past 10 weeks. you wouldnt have known it sunday.

Defense 70 Offense 30. You can't have the Packers score on 5 straight drives. Sorry. Not going to cut it

what have the packers shown the past 10 weeks or whatever that makes you believe they would torch us?

look at the other games, 18-16, 10-9, 30-0. cant really count the chiefs game because hoyer imploded and the defense really only gave up 23. our 18 points look pretty good in those other games. if barrys job was to keep us in the game, he did a terrible job. he got outsmarted by mccarthy plain and simple. has nothing to do with talent or injuries.

Our 18 was more than that anyways. We had a couple of drives where we opted for 4th down than a FG. In theory our offense to include the TD that was not a TD would have been somewhere in the 24-27 point range. More than enough to win the game. The defense stunk..plain and simple

[DogofWar1]

Defense 70 Offense 30. You can't have the Packers score on 5 straight drives. Sorry. Not going to cut it

 

This is the killer.  It puts a ton of pressure on the QB because once you're in full shoot out mode the run game can't help, and Kirk has to do it all himself.  Disguised and tighter than expected coverage slowed releases, and Trent had a surprisingly poor game that really killed us because it generated pressure from a vector Cousins hadn't had to deal with all season long.

 

But outside of the D's impact on the O, Barry was too conservative.  The moment we realized JC Tretter wasn't some scrub Smith could feed off of all day, we needed to get creative and bring more pressure.  We didn't, and you just can't coverage sack your way to victory against Rodgers with our secondary.  Or at all, since Rodgers can scramble for a couple first downs on his own anyway.

 

 

I don't think this was the worst thing for Barry though, it's good tape for him to look through closely and think about what he could do differently.  He and Jay are inexperienced in their respective positions still, another season might help them continue to iron things out.

 

For Jay we saw what an offseason could do; he managed to contain the dumpster fire that was our QB carousel and by some miracle created a gelling, functional offense with McVay.  Hopefully Barry can have a similar year 2 leap.

[SanDog_Skins]

This is the killer.  It puts a ton of pressure on the QB because once you're in full shoot out mode the run game can't help, and Kirk has to do it all himself.  Disguised and tighter than expected coverage slowed releases, and Trent had a surprisingly poor game that really killed us because it generated pressure from a vector Cousins hadn't had to deal with all season long.

 

But this is not what ES community would have you think. Kirk needed to score on 5 straight drives also....with no running game and no time to pass the ball because our O-line were turnstiles on Sunday.

[Jumbo]

But this is not what ES community would have you think. <edit>

 

 

rather than being just another banned guy (with rule violations from four different mods) trying to "sneak" back for the umpteenth time, maybe try another board...or even "getting a life" as I believe the saying goes...

[knowledge316]

Team lacks edge rushers. Packers OL was banged up, they had some new guy playing LT. 

 

I saw a tweet few days ago about pressure from edge rushers in the last 3 Packers game.

 

Arizona: 17

Minny: 12

Redskins: 5

 

Team needs to get some edge rushers.

[Wildbunny]

Arizona: 17

Minny: 12

Redskins: 5

17-12 =5.

Math is correct.

 

I don't think we need more pass rushers, we've got some talent guys around here, even a second rounder guy that had the highest sack numbers for a rookie (which should please GHH).

We need a healthy secondary so we can bring more pressure. The scheme was done so we weren't being killed on every play through the air with our more than banged secondary. So that implies less pressure running 4 against 5 or 6.